Can Ordo Reductor's Matrix of Ruin FOC take a Typhon Tank?

[N1SB]

As per the title, can the Ordo Reductor's Matrix of Ruin FOC take a Typhon Tank pls?

 

I know the Ordo Reductor's Matrix of Ruin FOC does not allow for allies.  I thought the Typhon Tank is for Space Marine Legions-only, but I was not 100% sure, thus I wanted to ask.  Thanks in advance for your help.

[Friday]

As far as my understanding goes...

 

No.

 

Its because the Typhon exists as an entry in a HH Supplement (Space Marine Legion Astartes aka the redbook). The sidebar in the Tagmahtta Omnissiah book states that you can bring almost anything that doesnt already have a 30k HH equivalent.

 

Now...maybe if the Typhon existed in any Imperial Armor book under a different name than 'Legion Typhon Siege Tank' (I don't have my book here to be exact) than you could argue that it is then possible.

 

Basically if it existed as a different name in the Imperial Armor book then it is arguably possible.

 

This is my general understanding of it and anyone can feel free to correct me.

[N1SB]

Thanks for the pointer!  Exactly what I was wondering about, and you are right.  I just found the sidebar on page 21 from the red book, after the allies matrix stuff, and now understand it thanks to your explanation.

 

It was a case where, having seen the shenanigans other people pulled in my local meta (and tbh "tactics" articles people have written on the Internetz), I wasn't sure what the rules were anymore.  In fact, it was a rules-abiding RAW friend who suggested I take one thinking it'd be totally normal because of said shenanigans (he knew of my love for certain patterns of tanks and Land Raider-based ones, etc., he's a good guy.)

 

This option to use Imperial Super-heavies "which do not already have an era-specific counterpart listed in a Horus Heresy supplement" is very, very interesting, though.

[Friday]

If you want some ideas what you can do with Ordo Reductor then listen to this. Also keep in mind Ordo Reductor (as per their rules) can bring Super Heavy Tanks.

 

If I'm running a dick list I could bring my:

 

Baneblade Stormlord variant. It is a super heavy vehicle tank transport.

 

It has a transport capacity of 40 and as per the Super Heavy Vehicle Tranport rules it can carry ANY NUMBER of units and characters. It counts has having 'not moved' if it does move.

 

Up to 20 models may fire out of it while embarked

 

Its base 480 points

9 Hull Points

Fear, Invincible Behemoth, Move through Cover

+25 for BS 4 and Blessed Autosimaculra (sp)

and then more for options.

 

Its Vulcan Mega Canon is S6 AP3 15 shots (shoots twice, and at different targets if it did no move). Has a plethora of Las Canons and Heavy Bolters/Heavy Flamers

 

It counts as open-topped for the purpose of embarking and disembarking ONLY.

 

So in my list I put 2 units of Myrmidons with either TEQ or MEQ weapons, a few Magos to repair it every turn and add some Krios Venators on its side for screening/anti-tank. You could load it up with Icarian Thallax for an anti-air platform as well.

 

That list pretty much deploys with 4 models on the field.

 

[Tiger9gamer]

Question; Would I be able to bring a hell hammer superheavy with my ordo-reductor?

[Sol_Invictus]

If you want some ideas what you can do with Ordo Reductor then listen to this. Also keep in mind Ordo Reductor (as per their rules) can bring Super Heavy Tanks.

 

If I'm running a dick list I could bring my:

 

Baneblade Stormlord variant. It is a super heavy vehicle tank transport.

But don't the SA have the Stormlord as a LoW option meaning it can't be taken as an Ordo Reductor LoW due to having HH rules?

[Caillum]

The new rules for taking Lords of War from other books are included on page 10 of the Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Army List. The rule is similar to the Crusade Army List rule you are referring to, but more specific. They also appear to be for all armies, but that is not confirmed (but it makes sense though). The vehicles available are: Stormlord, Stormsword, Banehammer, Shadowsword, Baneblade, Macharius and variants, Crassus and variants, Minotaur, Marauder Bomber & Destroyer, Thunderbolt and Avenger.

 

@Friday, note that Super-heavies count as not moving for shooting their own weapons, but moving still affects their passengers. Not an issue for Myrmidons unless you move the Stormlord more than 6". :)

 

@Not 1 Step Backwards, seen as though the specific list doesn't include a Typhon, maybe consider a Stormsword? Bigger blast on the otherwise same gun, and can take a heap of additional weapons...

[N1SB]

Seriously, everything you guys mentioned are of interest to me.

 

I DO use Myrmidon Destructors with Irradiation Engines.  Like Sol, I thought those examples were in the purview of Solar Auxilia or the like!

 

This opens up entirely new avenues than what I was thinking.  I thought it'd just be a much more limited subset than what you listed up there.

 

@Friday, @Caillum, those are all good recommendations and I'm open to all of them.  Thanks very much for your suggestions.

 

 

Important edit - I really do appreciate you guys providing us these options, plus the time you spent looking it up to explain it to me, thus I looked it up for myself.  I found that sidebar in the most recent LA: AoD Army List book on page 10.  While I totally believe those new options will be available to all armies, including Mechanicum, until that's confirmed by way of a new book, or even a FAQ on the Forgeworld website, I'm going to have to go with Rules As Written in our own book.  The Baneblade variants are still in the purview of Solar Auxilia, thus restricted for us for now.

 

That's not to say this was a wasted exercise, because for my part, I now have the Stormlord and Stormsword well on my radar once the issue's been clarified for Mechanicum.  I'm almost tempted to order and paint one in advance (it looks like a huge kit, a long-term project), but I'm going to wait to pull that particular trigger.

[Sol_Invictus]

If Caillum us correct and the box in the legion books is meant to supercede the corresponding box in the Taghmata list (which would make sense to me. Why should the legions get all the LoW options?) then that gives me some great options to think about. :)

[Friday]

The new rules for taking Lords of War from other books are included on page 10 of the Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Army List. The rule is similar to the Crusade Army List rule you are referring to, but more specific. They also appear to be for all armies, but that is not confirmed (but it makes sense though). The vehicles available are: Stormlord, Stormsword, Banehammer, Shadowsword, Baneblade, Macharius and variants, Crassus and variants, Minotaur, Marauder Bomber & Destroyer, Thunderbolt and Avenger.

 

Yea exactly. The part that is not confirmed is if that list applies to all armies or only to Space Marine Legions. The problem I have with is at the bottom of Page 10:

     When used in conjunction with this army list, these vehicles may be further modified by the following upgrades: Space Marine Crew

     (Super-heavy Tanks only): + 15points

 

​​Where the Tagmata Rebook says on Page 21:

     AutoKrator Control (Super-heavy Tanks only : Representing the skilled Tech-Priest weapon-savants and gun-servitor control 

     systems of the Autokrator, these super-heavy vehicles may be upgrades to BS 4 and have the Blessed Autosimulacra special

     rule for +20 points

 

​​So...part of me wants to believe that the Legion Red book applies to all (but then how do we get our tanks to BS 4 if we can't use the rule from the Ad Mech redbook?)

 

And the other part of me is praying to the Omnissiah that the Legion Astarted Redbook did not just remove these specific models from our choices as Lords of War (because they now exist as an HH counterpart in the Space Marine Redbook

 

Basically...

 

If the Legion Redbook takes priority as for the Age of Darkness Rules and LoW choices then Mechanicum Armies cannot get BS4 super heavy vehicles OR if it does NOT take priority then Mechanicum cannot take these vehicles as a LOW choice because they already exist as a HH counterpart in the Legion Astartes redbook

• Stormlord, Stormsword, Banehammer, Shadowsword, Baneblade, Macharius and variants, Crassus and variants, Minotaur, Marauder Bomber & Destroyer, Thunderbolt and Avenger.

 

Just food to think about. I'm open to this debate being squashed by some superseding rule but as it stands now it really is confusing.

 

In the mean time I'm still going to bring my Stormlord at BS4 and Blessed Autosimalcura for +20 points.

[Sol_Invictus]

 

The new rules for taking Lords of War from other books are included on page 10 of the Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Army List. The rule is similar to the Crusade Army List rule you are referring to, but more specific. They also appear to be for all armies, but that is not confirmed (but it makes sense though). The vehicles available are: Stormlord, Stormsword, Banehammer, Shadowsword, Baneblade, Macharius and variants, Crassus and variants, Minotaur, Marauder Bomber & Destroyer, Thunderbolt and Avenger.

 

Yea exactly. The part that is not confirmed is if that list applies to all armies or only to Space Marine Legions. The problem I have with is at the bottom of Page 10:

     When used in conjunction with this army list, these vehicles may be further modified by the following upgrades: Space Marine Crew

     (Super-heavy Tanks only): + 15points

 

​​Where the Tagmata Rebook says on Page 21:

     AutoKrator Control (Super-heavy Tanks only : Representing the skilled Tech-Priest weapon-savants and gun-servitor control 

     systems of the Autokrator, these super-heavy vehicles may be upgrades to BS 4 and have the Blessed Autosimulacra special

     rule for +20 points

 

​​So...part of me wants to believe that the Legion Red book applies to all (but then how do we get our tanks to BS 4 if we can't use the rule from the Ad Mech redbook?)

 

And the other part of me is praying to the Omnissiah that the Legion Astarted Redbook did not just remove these specific models from our choices as Lords of War (because they now exist as an HH counterpart in the Space Marine Redbook

 

Basically...

 

If the Legion Redbook takes priority as for the Age of Darkness Rules and LoW choices then Mechanicum Armies cannot get BS4 super heavy vehicles OR if it does NOT take priority then Mechanicum cannot take these vehicles as a LOW choice because they already exist as a HH counterpart in the Legion Astartes redbook

• Stormlord, Stormsword, Banehammer, Shadowsword, Baneblade, Macharius and variants, Crassus and variants, Minotaur, Marauder Bomber & Destroyer, Thunderbolt and Avenger.

 

Just food to think about. I'm open to this debate being squashed by some superseding rule but as it stands now it really is confusing.

 

In the mean time I'm still going to bring my Stormlord at BS4 and Blessed Autosimalcura for +20 points.

 

 

I would assume as you state at the end that you would just replace Space Marine Crew for Autokrator Control for the Mechanicum but of course that's pure supposition until we get clarification from FW. 

 

 

• Stormlord, Stormsword, Banehammer, Shadowsword, Baneblade, Macharius and variants, Crassus and variants, Minotaur, Marauder Bomber & Destroyer, Thunderbolt and Avenger.

 

And the other part of me is praying to the Omnissiah that the Legion Astarted Redbook did not just remove these specific models from our choices as Lords of War (because they now exist as an HH counterpart in the Space Marine Redbook

 

 

So I asked this above about the Stormlord as well but I believe you already have this issue as the majority of the listed models already have HH era rules except for the Macharius variants, Crassus variants, and the Marauders, yeah? For example the Baneblade variants have rules in the Solar Auxilia list.

[Friday]

I don't know honestly. These rules get more ambiguous every time you look at them. 

 

The actual name of the Stormlord, for example, in the Crusade Imperialis Army Redbook is Auxilia Stormlord Super-Heavy Assault Tank

 

It has very different upgrade options (base 490 points) like Armored Ceramite, a slew of pintle mounted weapons, Super-Heavy Command tank, etc.

 

versus base 480 points in the Tau Damocles Mon'ka Campaign book updated for the Astra Militarum.

 

Do you think this would restrict a Mechanicum army from taking a basic Storm Lord?

[Sol_Invictus]

That's a good point. I guess I took it to mean that if there was a HH variant you couldn't use the 40k variant, which is why I really want that list from the legion red book to apply to the Mechanicum because it seems like we've currently got a fairly small LoW selection.

[Friday]

That's a good point. I guess I took it to mean that if there was a HH variant you couldn't use the 40k variant, which is why I really want that list from the legion red book to apply to the Mechanicum because it seems like we've currently got a fairly small LoW selection.

 

The rule specifically states something about "in another Horus Heresy supplement" and then goes on to mention the Imperial Armor books are an example of legal vehicles (which are used for 40k).

 

Anyways. If you look at it like I do it opens up the doors to all kinds of cool stuff that also makes sense because the Mechanicum designed and built them all. So why shouldn't they be able to bring whatever they want?

 

Another poster asked if he could bring a Hell Hammer. Why not? RAW in the Taghmata book as long as there is not a HH equivalent out there it should be good.

[Shaolin_Monkey]

It does specifically mention "Imperial Amour" books.

So arguably the Stormlord profile from any of the GW publications are invalid regardless.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Just take an Ordinator ;) avoids this whole mess and blows away most things with impunity. 

 

I think this is a grey area you're best off clarifying with your local group. For my money, Stormlord is one of the least powerful Superheavy options. Like its great, but not Knight-Titan good. I figure seeing as the Mechanicum manufacture every tank used by the other factions anyway (plus a few they keep strictly within their own armies, like the Krios and Triaros), they probably should have access. 

[Withershadow]

Codex (redbook) supersedes core books (black book) but never another codex. The Taghmata have their own LOW selection that is much expanded. The Legion book does not apply to Taghmata forces in any way.

 

Also, the addition of these options to the Legions does not invalidate them for Taghmata. The Taghmata specifies you can't use other LoWs that have rules (I.e data sheets) in 30K publications. The Legion book does not give stats for these tanks, it's referring you basically to the generic IA data sheet with additional option of Marine crew.

[Sol_Invictus]

Also, the addition of these options to the Legions does not invalidate them for Taghmata. The Taghmata specifies you can't use other LoWs that have rules (I.e data sheets) in 30K publications. The Legion book does not give stats for these tanks, it's referring you basically to the generic IA data sheet with additional option of Marine crew.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that having the options in the legions book invalidates the options for Mechanicum, but that having rules in other HH publications does which the majority of the LoW options in that list have.