Tacticals just a tax? What troop choices to take?

[sturguard]

Hey folks,

I am new to the 30 arena and I have been playing two board members who are great to hang out with. I  am waiting for inferno to bring my SW army into 30k as well as waiting for years to see what 1k Sons bring.

 

In the meantime as I will have some time to model as I just had back surgery I decided to start an Alpha Legion army.

 

I have been going back and forth with the different SCs and Rites of War, but ultimately how I want to run the army (stealing the initiative) I decided to go with the Coils Rite of War. The downside to this is you have to take 3 troop choices. For me, I have struggled alot with this as when I initially started my list building, I was using Skorrs Rite of War and taking Vet Squads, which are oh so good. Yes they can get a bit costly but man, they are jacks of all trades and can fill just about any role you would want.

 

I am really struggling with the 3 base Troop Choices-

1.  Legion Breachers actually seem fairly useful to me. They are pretty resilient, and with their grav guns can also tank hunt. They might not excel at it, but they certainly can strip a hull point or two off anything.  However their transport options are limited to an expensive drop pod or Land Raider- not to mention they dont exactly fit the image or style of my army.

 

2. Assault Troops. They dont seem that bad, I actually planned to put a unit in my army. 10 man strong, combat shields, with a damocles they can deep strike without problems if within 24 inches of the rhino without error- point wise they come in about the same as a tactical squad but seem at least good at something- assault. They arent the best, but they can put out a decent amount of attacks and have power weapons.

 

3. Tactical- I really, really, really struggle to see anything useful with tactical squads at all. Now I dont know all the legion bonuses, I dont know all the rites of war, so maybe there are some really useful advantages I dont see- which is the point of why I am writing this-

 

So lets break it down. 

First, tacticals arent cheap. They seem it, but then when you look at the fact that they dont do anything except try to shoot at other tactical squads you invest more points in them- rhino, vox, standard, upgrade the sergeant and all of a sudden you are spending over 200 pts on a 10 man squad. 

 

Next, other than shooting infantry when its out of a transport, they are pretty worthless. I mean they have no way of taking out a tank. So what if your opponent has an armored company? What if he has a flier heavy list? In games such as those I guess they are delegated to simply finding cover and an objective and survive. I am more used to playing with units that have synergy and can be used in multiple ways.

 

Should I just drop all my tactical squads and take Assault squads? What are peoples ideas on them?

 

I am frustrated because I have alot of expensive FW upgrades on my desk and dont want to model a basic tac marine if he isnt ever going to fill any roles I am looking to fill.

 

Again the difference in a Breacher squad or vet squad and a tac squad is say 60 pts, given I am building a 2500 pt army, 60 pts is nothing, I would much rather have squads that fill multiple roles than have a squad that only does 1 thing and costs 60 pts less.

 

I am really looking for your help as I am hoping I have missed some thing?

 

So essentially when building a Coils list, what 3 troop choices should I be look at?

 

Thanks?

[Gorgoff]

60 points are never "nothing" no matter how many points you play. ;)

I guess it is all about the Legion you play. World Eaters Tactical Squads are one of the most potent CC units in the game for example while Iron Warriors Tacticals are ace at Holding objectives.

Since you play AL your dudes are really good as well because in your army they can infiltrate or scout depending on which special rule you choose. Both make them quiet good Earl objective grabbers.

Im case of a mission like Dominion (book 5), where you get VP for every objective you hold at the start of your turn, you could start with 3 points in advance from turn one, which is huge in that mission.

Yes, you can put lots and lots of additional points into a Tactical Squad but you shouldn't. Mould them to the Task at hand instead. What should they do in an AL army? Score points via objectives.

Nothing more, nothing less.

A Vexilla, AA and Melterbombs is all you need for this. Depending on your terrain and the Rest of your army you could drop the Vexilla and even the Artificer Armour as well. Then we'd look at an very flexible 135 points unit which gets its :cuss done AND maybe, just maybe, kill a dude or two in a game. :)

[God-Potato of Mankind]

If they are a tax - Rhino, artificer and done.

 

If they are for a use, upgrade as necessary.

 

For example, World Eaters officers will do great work with a power fist. Salamanders will do great work woth a rhino multimelta and combimelta etc

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Alpha Legion Tacticals are awesome in more than one configuration.

 

For the shooty option, keep em cheap like Gorgoff suggested, only a Vex, AA and Melta Bombs. 

 

They can be bloody good in a brawl as well, with (additional or switched) close combat weapons, a Sergeant with Power Fist, Power Dagger and AA , and the Counter-Attack USR bestowed on them by Mutable Tactics.

 

Just as an example. Especially if you play AL. 

 

Alpha Legion is not about picking highly-specialized fancy units.

Alpha Legion excels at stacking USR on troop units (Tacs for example) and Vet Tacs.

Also, your Primarch is a huge infantry buffer, granting PE USR to your units.

[helterskelter]

IH tacticals are a mare to shift without getting into combat with them! Bigger blobs with an apothecary can weather a lot of fire.

[sturguard]

Thanks guys for the responses, I appreciate them. 

 

I understand 60 points is 60 pts, with those savings you can purchase a land speeder or a rapier battery. I guess my point was if I could purchase 3 units of tacticals that did nothing but try and grab objectives or spend the same amount on 2 squads of vets which can take objectives and actually kill stuff AND as UL said stack abilities. With the vets you can toss in some heavy weapons and take something like machine killer with tank hunter.

 

I guess what I have been trying to do is not create an alpha legion army that HAS to take the mutable of infiltrate. Honestly I would rather take tank hunter. Vets can outflank on their own without the mutable infiltrate. One of the Warlord traits Skorr can take gives infiltrate to 3 units, which would be best served by my rapiers. Now, against an enemy with lots of infantry would I take tank hunter as my mutable- no, but I want that option- same with scout, it certainly would be cool to be able to scout up all my units before turn 1.

 

So thus far  I am not missing anything about Tac squads effectiveness for AL. My thoughts were just to give the sgt artificer armor (to essentially save as many lives before he dies) keep everyone with bolters and maybe give them a rhino (I cant take Coils without the rhino unless I choose Infiltrate every time as my mutable correct?).

 

I am really trying to create an all comers list- or as close to it as you can get but unfortunately until I resolve my Rite of War and troops selections I cant go any further.

 

Maybe I am just better going with Skorrs Rite which is Vets become troops. I lose the -1 to enemy reserves from Coils and the reroll to stealing initiative.

 

 

The way I picture an Alpha Legion army working is- using mechanics to see where the enemy is setting up before I set up, then getting first turn. Obviously that is a huge advantage if you have units capable of putting a dent into the enemy.

[depthcharge12]

Why not use infiltrate to its maximum effect since you play AL???

 

Breachers in cover with grav guns, forward placed assault marines (super cheap now), or even large tactical blobs to be annoying and FotL turn 1?

[defl0]

Breachers with grav guns abs vigilator is a good al infiltrate tactic.

 

I also run 20 tacs with a chappy and extra ccws in my raven guard to great effect

[shandwen]

The other use of small tactical squads is that they wont draw nearly as much attention, so they should live far longer than vet squads. That is hard to quanify but it is a perk.

[disease]

breachers are an odd one - compare 20 with grav guns and vigilator against 20 tacs and some grav rapiers and suddenly they start to make sense.   Useful if you need to save elite slots.

[Gorgoff]

In my humble opinion Breachers are,outside of ZM games, unplayable. After all they're just regular marines. And they die as easily from small arms fire.

[chaos45]

The problem with tactical squads is Veteran squads got a lot cheaper and therefore have almost replaced them aside from as a tax.

 

Secondly---if you want a tactical squad to be effect at much other than dying in place you do have to spend more points on them. 

 

Upgrading the SGT into a minor character helps them be a threat and effective in the game IMO-  extra close combat weapons on the squad makes them more threatening in CC than a 40k tac squad.

 

For my SGTs--standard go to is Artificer, power fist, combi- plas or melta.....sometimes I'll do a Power axe instead of fist but on all my new army builds I have moved to PF to keep them dual effective against infantry and tanks.  As 3x STR 8  AP2 swings at a vehicle on a charge is often more effective than 1 melta bomb swing IMO esp since you only hit 2/3rds the time...basically better chance to actually hit, esp when facing down a dreadnought. 

[Withershadow]

I'm pretty much of the same mind as above. Once you add additional close combat weapons, Veterans are 15 points more for A2 and veteran tactics.

 

Vexilla, CCWs, armor and meltabomb for cheap squads. 170 points before transport. If I have a spare 15 points, I'll usually splurge for the fist and swap the meltabombs for a power dagger. So 185. Dozer rhino is 40, pod is 35, so you're paying 205-225 points for the unit which isn't too bad.

 

But yeah you really need a reason why you are taking them when you could get Veterans, Terminators or Predators instead depending on the Rite. Even Assault Marines can be a better option and only 25 points or so more expensive when geared with shields.

 

I use Tacticals in Orbital Assault because they provide cheap Pods to facilitate alpha striking with other stuff, and in Coils where the mandatory third compulsory troop forced you to save points where you can.

[NoLifeKing]

The problem with tactical squads is Veteran squads got a lot cheaper and therefore have almost replaced them aside from as a tax.

 

Secondly---if you want a tactical squad to be effect at much other than dying in place you do have to spend more points on them. 

 

Upgrading the SGT into a minor character helps them be a threat and effective in the game IMO-  extra close combat weapons on the squad makes them more threatening in CC than a 40k tac squad.

 

For my SGTs--standard go to is Artificer, power fist, combi- plas or melta.....sometimes I'll do a Power axe instead of fist but on all my new army builds I have moved to PF to keep them dual effective against infantry and tanks.  As 3x STR 8  AP2 swings at a vehicle on a charge is often more effective than 1 melta bomb swing IMO esp since you only hit 2/3rds the time...basically better chance to actually hit, esp when facing down a dreadnought. 

You have made a terrible error in believing that just because veterans got cheaper, they automatically replace regular tactical squad. 

 

In order to play veterans as a troop, most of the time, you need to play the pride of the legion RoW, which is only useful for a homeless person with only a single calth or prospero box to go around with. Pride of the legion is a terrible rite of war that often yields your opponent a precious victory point, and the only pay off you get is to get a specialist marine unit which lives and dies in the same conditions as a fresh and simple tactical squad. Also while using pride of the legion, you abandon any hope of using a rite of war that brings actual, and meaningful benefits to your army.

 

In an enviroment where T4 is largely dominant, veterans don't really shoot marines down much better than regular tacs do, even with the marksman upgrade. Where they shine tho is taking down spesific, and bigger targets. Such being mechanicum robots, gal'vorbaks, rapier batteries and the new custodians. They do monster hunting in a cheaper, simpler manner than support squads, who are the next level tool in our tactical arsenal who are specialize even further than veterans do. Veteran tacticals perform a job beyond normal tacs, and below support squads. Being more expensive than the first, but cheaper than the latter, they aren't meant to replace either one, because it doesn't do the same job while carrying their assigned price tag. 

 

Regular tactical squad is the hammer and the anvil when it comes to infantry vs infantry warfare, and when played correctly and kept out of CC, they really are the backbone of your army, just like their fluff says. Different legions tend to play their tacticals in very different styles, world eaters use them for cheap but effective CC muscle, word bearers can create monsters of 20man tac squads with just 65 points added to the price tag with cc weapons and dark channeling. What ever the legion, tacticals are best played in simple and with few upgrades as possible, and those upgrades should often be limited into squadwide tools that assist them in the role as the spine of your army. Legion Tactical squads are all about abusing your numerical advantage over the enemy, in the sheer amount of bolter shots or chainsword attacks you can dish out. Add in an chaplain or an apothecary and they do :cuss up your veteran tactical squad in a firefight or in close combat any day of the week to protect your big elite units who in return protect your little guys from the big guys they do well against. 

 

Also a not on rhinos, more often than not, those metal boxes are wasted on regular tacticals and end up just giving easy kills for your enemy to gorge himself on victory points. 

 

My prefered loadout for a tact squad is a with nothing but a melta bomb and if i have the points, vexilla or art armor if the points allow it. I have found also that no bigger than 10-15man squad size is ideal for my own purposes. 

 

And just to give you better idea what kind of army i possibly run around my tactical troops, the two legions i play are Word Bearers and Ultramarines.

[shandwen]

Hmmm... pride of the legion can loose you a game, but if you do you can question how much worse you would have lost it with regular tacs that cant do anything but hurt infantry would have underperformed compared to the sniper vets that would have lost you that game. The difference in cost between vets and tacs makes tacs worthless outside of a handful of RoWs. If your legion has a character that can turn vets into troops the regular boys just got completely replaced.

[NoLifeKing]

Hmmm... pride of the legion can loose you a game, but if you do you can question how much worse you would have lost it with regular tacs that cant do anything but hurt infantry would have underperformed compared to the sniper vets that would have lost you that game. The difference in cost between vets and tacs makes tacs worthless outside of a handful of RoWs. If your legion has a character that can turn vets into troops the regular boys just got completely replaced.

It would seem that my wall of text critically hit your attention span, but the terrible RoW wasn't my only explanation as to why why veterans don't just "replace" regular tacticals.

[Excessus]

NoLifeKing, your point would probably come across better if you stopped insulting people left and right. You need to realize that your opinions are yours and others will have different ideas.

 

 

sturguard, are you taking Alpharius in your coils list? How many points is it? I usually go for coils at 2500p+ and have three tacticals in rhinos with the sergeant maxed out (arti, fist, dagger) and extra weps on them if I can afford it. When Alphy is on the board they'll have preferred enemy and usually earn their keep since people tend to focus on alphy and his suzerians charging down the field in their LR. Yes, they only have bolters, but your opponent still needs troops in his list they can help kill. With PE the lowly tacticals will take down Castellax units and be a thorn in any opponent's side. Sometimes outflanking to capture board quarters and such, play the scenario.

[NoLifeKing]

NoLifeKing, your point would probably come across better if you stopped insulting people left and right. You need to realize that your opinions are yours and others will have different ideas.

Insulting people left and right? Resorting to public shaming now are we? I believed private warning from an moderator would be enough. After all i did apologize for my language.

[Gorgoff]

 

 

The problem with tactical squads is Veteran squads got a lot cheaper and therefore have almost replaced them aside from as a tax.

 

Secondly---if you want a tactical squad to be effect at much other than dying in place you do have to spend more points on them.

 

Upgrading the SGT into a minor character helps them be a threat and effective in the game IMO- extra close combat weapons on the squad makes them more threatening in CC than a 40k tac squad.

 

For my SGTs--standard go to is Artificer, power fist, combi- plas or melta.....sometimes I'll do a Power axe instead of fist but on all my new army builds I have moved to PF to keep them dual effective against infantry and tanks. As 3x STR 8 AP2 swings at a vehicle on a charge is often more effective than 1 melta bomb swing IMO esp since you only hit 2/3rds the time...basically better chance to actually hit, esp when facing down a dreadnought.

You have made a terrible error in believing that just because veterans got cheaper, they automatically replace regular tactical squad.

 

In order to play veterans as a troop, most of the time, you need to play the pride of the legion RoW, which is only useful for a homeless person with only a single calth or prospero box to go around with. Pride of the legion is a terrible rite of war that often yields your opponent a precious victory point, and the only pay off you get is to get a specialist marine unit which lives and dies in the same conditions as a fresh and simple tactical squad. Also while using pride of the legion, you abandon any hope of using a rite of war that brings actual, and meaningful benefits to your army.

 

In an enviroment where T4 is largely dominant, veterans don't really shoot marines down much better than regular tacs do, even with the marksman upgrade. Where they shine tho is taking down spesific, and bigger targets. Such being mechanicum robots, gal'vorbaks, rapier batteries and the new custodians. They do monster hunting in a cheaper, simpler manner than support squads, who are the next level tool in our tactical arsenal who are specialize even further than veterans do. Veteran tacticals perform a job beyond normal tacs, and below support squads. Being more expensive than the first, but cheaper than the latter, they aren't meant to replace either one, because it doesn't do the same job while carrying their assigned price tag.

 

Regular tactical squad is the hammer and the anvil when it comes to infantry vs infantry warfare, and when played correctly and kept out of CC, they really are the backbone of your army, just like their fluff says. Different legions tend to play their tacticals in very different styles, world eaters use them for cheap but effective CC muscle, word bearers can create monsters of 20man tac squads with just 65 points added to the price tag with cc weapons and dark channeling. What ever the legion, tacticals are best played in simple and with few upgrades as possible, and those upgrades should often be limited into squadwide tools that assist them in the role as the spine of your army. Legion Tactical squads are all about abusing your numerical advantage over the enemy, in the sheer amount of bolter shots or chainsword attacks you can dish out. Add in an chaplain or an apothecary and they do :cuss up your veteran tactical squad in a firefight or in close combat any day of the week to protect your big elite units who in return protect your little guys from the big guys they do well against.

 

Also a not on rhinos, more often than not, those metal boxes are wasted on regular tacticals and end up just giving easy kills for your enemy to gorge himself on victory points.

 

My prefered loadout for a tact squad is a with nothing but a melta bomb and if i have the points, vexilla or art armor if the points allow it. I have found also that no bigger than 10-15man squad size is ideal for my own purposes.

 

And just to give you better idea what kind of army i possibly run around my tactical troops, the two legions i play are Word Bearers and Ultramarines.

You nailed it.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Insulting people left and right? Resorting to public shaming now are we? I believed private warning from an moderator would be enough. After all i did apologize for my language.

 

 

That's nothing at all like public shaming.

 

In a very short amount of time you have amassed a sizable number of reports and your supposed apologies for "ruffling jimmies" come off as insincere at best, if not completely disingenuous. I certainly don't believe them.

 

I would strongly suggest you quickly change your attitude and posting habits before you ruffle the jimmies of someone with a ban hammer.

[LukeTheButcher]

NoLifeKing, I am sorry but your opinion on Tactical's is incomprehensible to me. To explain, Everything in this game can kill a Power Armoured (PA) marine. Absolutley Everything. It is the base premis. But, a PA marine cannot kill everything. So for maximum tactical flexibility, especially in an all comers army list, I would want to maximise the scope of what my simple PA Marine can threaten. For very little difference in cost, veterens offer that versatility.

 

You have suggested that "Regular tactical squad is the hammer and the anvil when it comes to infantry vs infantry warfare, and when played correctly and kept out of CC". I think this is a fairly rare occurnace to find infantry facing off vs infantry. There are so many more effective ways to remove your enemeies infantry that I fail to see where the Tactical squad comes into play if that is their prime use. In fact, in my experience, for a Tactical squad to survive long enought to get into range is a rareity (I am looking at you Quad Mortars/Scorpious/Typhon - hell, anythign with an AP3 template). You also suggest that you keep Tactical squads out of CC, so you are only advocating the Tactical as a shooting option were a bolters threat is very limited. On the other hand, Veterean Tactical Squads have access to specialist weapons and tactics that can make them a threat to light/medium vehicles as well as infantry.  

 

 

But then, you also say "Tactical squads are all about abusing your numerical advantage over the enemy, in the sheer amout of bolter shots and chainsword attacks you can dish out". This is a valid point and I have seen enough Terminators fall to sheer weight of fire to know this is true. But for this to be effective you either need big squad sizes or to use the tacticals special bolter rule. One presents a large inviting target to everything with a template, the other loses tactical movement and flexibility. So either your squad is severly reduced by template weapons (and might have routed under casulties) that you cannot garuntee having the nessecary weight of fire to produce effective results, or you are so locked in place that the ideal targets can easily avoid your tacticals and instead target them with a hard counter (I don't know, a dreanaught or one of the many other things their bolters cant touch). 

Relying on poor generalship from your opponent does not make the Tactical Squad supperior to a Veteran Tactical Squad.

 

 

But then you suggest, "add in a chaplin or an apothecary and they do xx up your veteran tactical squad in a firefight or close combat any day of the week". When you start adding in HQ options and/or Elites you are not, strictly speaking, advocating the strength of the Tactical Squad. You are actually highlighting their weakness, that they need a crutch to be superior. That they cannot do it alone. You could argue that sort of logical all day long ... ie, add in a rhino and a heavy flamer to your Sniper Veteren squad (to be fair on points) to be near enough invunrable to bolter fire and will certainly cause the Tactical squad a few headaches....  You can back and forth scenario's all day long and it is still immaterial. (Does that make it a straw-man arguement? I can never recall the definition for that...)

 

 

Tacticals do have there place, but (outside of specific legions - World Eaers) I can only see them used in one of two ways: 1) as a large blob designed to draw fire away from units that are more useful to achieving your overall battles objective, or 2) a small mobile unit to capture/hold strategic objectives.

 

The Veteran squad (under certain RoW which seems to rub yo up the wrong way) can do the later, but via Veterean special rules and access to special weapons they can also fullfil other roles in the army. This versitility free's up points to allow the rest of your army to excel in other departments (ie, templating the hell out of your opponents tactical squads amoungst other things).

 

 

So, in summary, the Veteran Tactical squad, in my opinion, can offer more than the standard Tactical Squad. They open up a much bigger threat-range and therefore can counter more of your opponents list. Certain RoW (or with certain Primarchs) the rule make Veteran Tactical Squads troop choices, which would to my mind would advoccate taking Veterens over standard tacticals. So in short Veterans > tacticals. The lower model count (painting & purchasing), greater modeling options, easy of transport, quick set-up time, and list optimisation all make those RoW valid and sensible choices.

 

However, in regards to Alpha Legion compulsary troop choices,  each has it's place and will fill a role. It wil ldepend as much on how you want the army to play. Infiltrating assault squads for an early blitzkrieg might be fun, as could sneaking forward Tactical squads tobunker down on an objective. For me though, nothing says 30k like Breachers (and with Grav/Melta they can dish out hurt to more than just infantry, uping their value in my books).

 

 

 

NoLifeKing, Oh, and as an aside, I tend to find elitist snobs reprehensible. Your negativity to people based on what they can afford (or more importantly, your assumption as to what people can afford) is repugnant to me personally and attitudes like yours are something I have seen as a barrier to people entering 30k. Without new take-up, the game will not grow.

[NoLifeKing]

 

NoLifeKing, Oh, and as an aside, I tend to find elitist snobs reprehensible. Your negativity to people based on what they can afford (or more importantly, your assumption as to what people can afford) is repugnant to me personally and attitudes like yours are something I have seen as a barrier to people entering 30k. Without new take-up, the game will not grow.

This is starting to get ridiculous how many people were obviously deeply wounded by my posting. 

 

I never inteded to look down on people due to their lack of passion or finance to build an legion to a size which i prefer and believe to be the most effective. 

I merely stated the reasons why most people wont or can't go that way. Those reasons being more often than not, that the person in question either doesn't care about the strength of his army so long as he enjoys the way it plays. The second, and more likely reason is that the person in question doesn't want to or simply can't waste money on plastic miniatures with the required zeal. 

 

These two reasons are very real and common reasons, which all of us should admit that exist. That doesn't make the hobbyist a second class citizen however in my eyes, however your obviously hurt emotions prevent you from understanding this. 

 

And i recognize my disrespectful choice of words, but even terms such as "homeless" were meant in a sense of humor(which was obviously in bad taste towards the majority of the people on the board). So i apologize once more from any and all fellow forum members i might have offended with my post that was mainly targeted towards the opinion(not the people who carry it), which i believe to be largely misguided.

 

 

[d@n]

Breachers infiltrated with a couple of graviton guns and a nuncio vox is the way go with alpha legion or ravenguard. They at least have a function. Were as tactical marines just tend to die doing nothing. You could reserve tacs and hope they come on late in the game and then use them to steal objectives but that's a lot of points for a one trick pony. Breachers at least give you board control with the grav guns and are Lot harder to shift plus the vox makes your mortars a lot better

[Gorgoff]

Breachers infiltrated with a couple of graviton guns and a nuncio vox is the way go with alpha legion or ravenguard. They at least have a function. Were as tactical marines just tend to die doing nothing. You could reserve tacs and hope they come on late in the game and then use them to steal objectives but that's a lot of points for a one trick pony. Breachers at least give you board control with the grav guns and are Lot harder to shift plus the vox makes your mortars a lot better

You get 20 marines with AA Sarge, Melta Bombs and a Vox for the same points.

As long your opponent doesn’t shoot them with AP1,2 or 3 weapons AND your units don't use cover, they will last much longer.

Three wounds kill one marine no matter if he carries a shield or not. So where is the point?

The point is ;) that Breachers are made for ZM where they excell and not open battle where they die as easely to small Arms fire as all other marines in Power Armour.

Grav Guns are really cool but for 230 points? Come on.

[Withershadow]

Breachers are neat if you want to bring a bunch of Phobos land raiders for some reason, but otherwise they pay too many points for their basic kit over the tac marine. Zone mortalis is a nice niche for them, as Gorgoff said.

 

The infiltrating blob with graviton guns can work, as long as you add an apothecary with an augury scanner so you can intercept with those grav guns. Of course, this gets really expensive, since you need them to be 15-strong for 3 special weapons and with the apothecary that's like 400+ points. Alpha Legion in particular could probably just bring a graviton rapier team for 225 points.

 

Thousand Sons maybe can pull it off with their +1 to invulnerable, but Raptora assault marines can probably do that better and cheaper and without the need for a transport.

 

I would do the following to make the other troop choices more appealing:

 

Tactical Squad - change fury of the legion that you can't assault afterwards, but can move afterwards. This would make it a more usable and flexible tool, and make tactical blobs a genuine threat. Seems to make more sense to me too.

 

Breacher Squad - make their armor work the same way as Solar Auxilia and Nemean Reaver, and let them re-roll all saves vs. blasts/templates. Getting a re-rollable 6+ or being able to go to ground behind defense lines for a re-rollable cover save would make their high cost justified.  I'd also cut costs in a bunch of spots, like letting the unit all get meltabombs for a lump cost (even with meltabomb nerf), 10 points for vox/vexilla, etc.

 

Recon Squads - free camo cloaks; also free sniper rifles, or make sniper rifles pinning again