veterannoob Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Rob Sanders is MIA so I need a guest to discuss this with me on Combat Phase, an episode that will air the 2nd or 3rd week of January. So many BL interviews still to release. Anybody read it, liked it (mostly) and unafraid to do a Skype interview on a show with a passable command of English (which, c'mon, is all of you)? Guy will return for book 12 Beheading to air in February to wrap up the TBA series. Thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Haha, the "liked it (mostly)" part is what rules me out by default. I thought it was candidate for the worst in the series and overall disappointing. These are not the positive vibes you are looking for. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/#findComment-4605473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
veterannoob Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 Haha, the "liked it (mostly)" part is what rules me out by default. I thought it was candidate for the worst in the series and overall disappointing. These are not the positive vibes you are looking for. Heh, understandable. But thanks for understanding what I'm going for. Criticism is one thing but I don't want to bash another book again on the show. Turns people off Cheers and happy holidays! By any chance, did you get dried strawberries at a Weihnachtsfestvals?? (Did I completely butcher that? ) I frequented the one in Potsdamer Platz fo dried fruit and mulled wine--perhaps a bit too much. Miss it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/#findComment-4605481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 It's Weihnachtsmarkt. ;) You were in Berlin? Hopefully not where the truck hit the market. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/#findComment-4605485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
veterannoob Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 It's Weihnachtsmarkt. You were in Berlin? Hopefully not where the truck hit the market. Nah, this was several years ago. I want to go back so bad. Got to take the trip south to Frankfurt, see old friends, see where I was a lad at Ramstein Air Force Base, go to and get suddenly cast in Rocky Horror Picture Show in Heidelburg, then the rest of the 5-month semester was kinda a bender Especially for the students under 21 who could suddenly drink. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/#findComment-4605532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel_of_Blood Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Afraid the 'liked it(mostly)' also rules me out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/#findComment-4606314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
veterannoob Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 lol, thx for being honest. If you don't mind the reasons why you guys hate it would actually be helpful for the episode discussion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/#findComment-4606416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 I don't remember disliking it necessarily, just thinking that it was a product of where BL's editorial/lore team wanted it to go. could give it a once over again and give you my thoughts it you want. what's your us timezone? I'm in pst Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/#findComment-4606464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 It just felt like a rehash of The Last Son of Dorn, just with the victory result instead. It left out characters left and right, made factual errors (like Zerberyn lamenting the lack of Librarians in his forces when Honorius was a thing before and after, or talking about the Holy Ordos), had many inconsistencies it did not address at all (the Phalanx specifically), and completely failed to make something off of the 6 Beasts situation - only one was relevant and the rest died supposedly off-screen. The big fight was also very, very similar to that from The Last Son of Dorn.. On top of that, it also had the Deathwatch catch another two psykers off-screen, even though it was explicitly stated before that they had to pull off all captures simultaneously because once the Beast and co got tipped off to what they're up to, their psykers would be heavily guarded and out of reach. Bohemond's oath of vengeance was also left out and he got utterly sidelined. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/#findComment-4606514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Too many cooks ruin the soup Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/#findComment-4606787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 That's not really the problem if you ask me. The coordination simply flopped. Writing books out of order and changing direction is an issue, but the faults weren't down to any particular author. The problem was at the editorial level. Those inconsistencies should have been dealt with by somebody with project oversight directly. There's bound to be something slipping through sometimes, but Shadow of Ullanor has so many instances of that, I have to wonder who managed the project at that point and greenlit the novel to follow on from The Last Son of Dorn that way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/#findComment-4606883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeLeto69 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Agree with comments above. SoU in itself is not a bad book (if pretty short) but it had the problem of following the awesome LSoD with way way too many plot similarities. I think Guymer hot it out of the park and clearly had similar ideas to Sanders but there was insufficient time to change SoU to not be so repetitive of the previous book. Â I have said on other threads that IMHO the series as a whole would actually have worked better as a 10 book series. If you combine the story elements of LSoD and SoU into a single book and also combine EotLW with tHfV it would have been cracking series...instead of a good series with some awesome books and a few weaker books. Â Oh and WiD needed to be longer and the task/quest harder! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/#findComment-4607051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 In my eyes, the series needed a 13th book. The Beheading ends very abruptly and the fall of Vangorich and co needed to be explored, not skipped between chapters. Then there's the whole mopping up of the situation and the various chapters assembling to pick new High Lords after that phase of anarchy. Â I fully expected the epigraph "Fire sputters" to be a quote from Rogal Dorn and later re-stated by Thane after the whole thing was over. Instead it just ended because Guy had to cram too many things into that final book because the groundwork was missing - or the pages, you be the judge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/#findComment-4607295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 In my eyes, the series needed a 13th book. The Beheading ends very abruptly and the fall of Vangorich and co needed to be explored, not skipped between chapters. Then there's the whole mopping up of the situation and the various chapters assembling to pick new High Lords after that phase of anarchy.  I fully expected the epigraph "Fire sputters" to be a quote from Rogal Dorn and later re-stated by Thane after the whole thing was over. Instead it just ended because Guy had to cram too many things into that final book because the groundwork was missing - or the pages, you be the judge. Exactly what DC said. The Beheading only flaw was a timejump with which we lost the most interesting part of Vangorich corruption and road to hell paved with good intentions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/#findComment-4610232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeLeto69 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Hmm yes the time jump was jarring. Personally I would have been happy without that last section. Just finish with Vangorich assuming power leaving it open for a related but separate trilogy (after all the fluff has something like 100 years of anarchy following the Beheading that is finally resolved by a huge 50 chapter force led by the Ultramarines...I think) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/#findComment-4610352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Hmm yes the time jump was jarring. Personally I would have been happy without that last section. Just finish with Vangorich assuming power leaving it open for a related but separate trilogy (after all the fluff has something like 100 years of anarchy following the Beheading that is finally resolved by a huge 50 chapter force led by the Ultramarines...I think) Indeed. Instead we get that horrible timejump, an abrupt ending and an epic battle in 1 page, with devil in the bush surprise - I'M BEAST CRULE!... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329234-tba-11-shadow-of-ullanor/#findComment-4610428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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