Frater Cornelius Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 I know Scars used swords, but is there really fluff behind the idea than to use them as more than just means to an end? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4607743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ikka Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Given their Legions traditions, the top two would probably be Dark Angels and White Scars. Between the two, it would be a close call. The Scars are all about swift attacks and withdrawal, while the Angels are stoic, ruthless combatants. I'm biased towards my Angels, but it would be fun to see. When book 8 comes out I guess we'll see what special units each gets, might give us a better idea. I don't really consider the Emperor's Children to be swordsmen as a whole, just their characters/special units. The EC are well-rounded in all combat styles but not devoted to the sword the same way the Scars or Angels are. 1. Dark Angels 2. White Scars 3. Emperor's Children Top remaining- Blood Angels, Ultramarines, maybe Imperial Fists Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4607746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 While not so present in 30k fluff for the IF, their 40k Successors do have the Feast of Blades which lends to the idea that, while the IFs most prominent swords men are inducted into the Templar Brethren, that there is still a Martial Culture for Swordsmanship present within the Legion because how else would there be viable candidates to be inducted into the Templar (amongst other methods of induction)? So while they might not be in the top running like the DA/WS/EC/BA (imo) they've still got a shot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4607762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced Hulk Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Best Legion of Swordsmen? Clearly... There can be only one! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4607766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forward Assist Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Sword fight! Wait, I mean... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4607776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Pheidias Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Spaced Hulk and Forward Assist wins the thread :DIn seriousness, you've all made some rather great points, and I would definitely think that the Dark Angels would be the premiere swordsmen, with Fists a close second, followed by the Emperors Children, and possibly the Scars, even though they are less dedicated to swords as such. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4607783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Wait wait wait wait wait wait. Waaaaiiiit. I will not have my legion be besmirched without giving up my offering. Catch. We Come for You! http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/Lamenterkyle/IMG_20161228_134347_zpsuczo5xwz.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4607791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Which legions' symbol is a sword, already? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4607801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forward Assist Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I will not have my legion be besmirched without giving up my offering. ... We Come for You! I now regret choosing the phrase 'sword fight'... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4607811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Swords specifically probably Emperor's Children, although Dark Angels being knightly dudes rank up there as well and actually have rules to represent this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamy248 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Yeah, popular decision seems to be Dark Angels, Emperor's Children and White Scars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 This whole topic tears at my heart XD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I'm gonna say DA but I am biased. EC probably next. WS are definitely in the mix but I always felt lances were more appropriate for them - Easier to kill someone when your hovering a metre or two off the ground on your jetbike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 I'm gonna say DA but I am biased. EC probably next. WS are definitely in the mix but I always felt lances were more appropriate for them - Easier to kill someone when your hovering a metre or two off the ground on your jetbike. I think physics and convience might argue against it. There is a reason cavalry fell out of favour. By maybe the third dimension a Jetbike offers can fix it. Still, I have no faith in SM bikes in a combat scenario. Scifi or not, I tend to like my stuff at least believable :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I'd say a cross between Dark Angels and Emperor's Children. And to whoever said that EC were disqualified because their unique weapon was a spear, the unique weapon for WS is a glaive. Don't bring realism into melee combat tens of thousands of years in the future. Dark Angels would have to be top though, surely. The Knight Legion, with a rule for winning combats with swords, the definitive knight primarch, knightly traditions from Caliban. I'd be surprised if they don't get an awesome sword unit to boot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Regarding WS, the Khan was mentioned by Sang to be a god with a blade (the Khan's weapon is a tulwar sword), along with Fulgrim. Not sure about the WS legion as a whole or units within the legion. Jubal, like Sevatar, uses a glaive. Qin Xa used the tulwar like Jaghatai...but he got badly wrecked by Eidolon's thunder hammer and sonic might Some relevant passages: "‘I wonder which one of you [Khan or Fulgrim] would win in a duel,’ the Angel [sanguinius] mused. ‘I would like to see that. You both handle a blade like gods.’" - Scars "'Begin, then,' said Hibou, and the two of them swept into movement, parrying, jabbing, using the blades with all the fluidity of their training. In seconds, the cage became an arena of Chogorian art, a crucible of swordsmanship." . . . "By then the Scars were moving too, flitting like gore-speckled ghosts between the columns. They danced through an oncoming storm of bolter-rounds, spinning as they came within sword-reach to give their blades more speed." "By then the Scars were fighting with an almost berserk energy, their battle-challenges more like screams. Henricos saw a Sons of Horns legionary literally torn apart by two of them, his body sliced at the armour joints by whistling bladework." - Grey Talon "Jubal whirled forwards. Sigismund cut down, and his opponent spun back, his blade a blur around his body. Sigismund swung again and again, his sword like a smear of steel and scattered rain. He was scything low and high, blade whistling, and the White Scar laughed as he ducked a cut and leapt into the air. The guan dao’s edge winked as it arced down. Sigismund froze. Jubal’s eyes were wide above bared teeth as his blow fell. Sigismund jerked aside, the curved razor-edge sighing as it passed his head. His sword flashed out. Jubal pulled back, snake-fast, his glaive rising, and for the first time the two blades clashed with a ring of steel. . . . Jubal leapt again, twisting like a bladed hurricane. He was fast, so very fast. ‘But you are missing something, for all your skill!’ He flicked his blade out and cut down, and Sigismund raised his sword to turn the glaive. He felt a blow ring against his forearm, and then Jubal was stepping back, sodden, topknot flicking to the side. Sigismund glanced down at his arm. The links of the chain binding the sword to his wrist had been severed. Sigismund lunged. Jubal swayed like a tree in the wind, and the sword sliced through empty air. An armoured heel flashed out and snapped Sigismund’s head back with a crack of bone and a spray of blood. Rainbow explosions detonated in his vision. The cries of the watching White Scars roared into the deluge. Sigismund reeled, his own blood blinding him, thoughts raging inside his skull: anger, and pain, and doubt, and… Everything was still. [sig rallies, disabling an arm of Jubal] Sigismund opened his mouth, forming words with a jaw that felt broken. ‘You were beaten because you lack focus.’ ‘And you lack joy.’ ‘We exist to serve.’ ‘And there is nothing more?’ Sigismund shook his head. ‘Nothing more.’ Jubal looked around, blinking, as though seeing the watching ranks of legionaries for the first time. Then he turned back to Sigismund, and spun his weapon with his good arm. ‘Come, let us finish this,’ he said." - Templar Based on the above...IMO, WS bladework is more fast and acrobatic, like a wild dervish of energy, highly unorthodox. As for DA and EC... DA are about perfect knightly technique...orthodox perfection EC emphasize refined technique but have considerable speed and flamboyance about them...they're kinda in between WS and DA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 The idea of white scars being the best swordsmen is a little heavy on the orientalist side. It's too close to the 'every Asian is a martial arts master' trope. The better answer is the high ranking White Scars and the Khan may be great with weapons because of experience, there is no reason why Joe Legionary would just be better than a dark angel or emperor's child, the first who trains from childhood with a sword (not a tulwar) and the other who is known for their dueling traditions brought from Europa and traditional focus on perfection in technique. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 A Tulwar is a sword tho... I wouldn't say the average joe WS is better...perhaps roughly equal but from a different school/philosophy of bladework Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 A Tulwar is a sword tho... I wouldn't say the average joe WS is better...perhaps roughly equal but from a different school/philosophy of bladework And there in lies the problem. It places the white scars in a premier position because of that 'different school/philosophy'. If that existed it would be the school/philosophy of EVERY legion, because culture applies to languages, food, personal relationships, hierarchies, etc but it doesn't have any effect on how to swing a sword best. Only practice and constant training matter, and to say paint the white scars like that is as bad As the racist accents in the novels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Happy Chaplin Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Mournival? I mean technically they're a group, and they are or were all exceptional swordsmen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I think it's easy to fall into a trap of 'best' Could it be better said which legions would put an emphasis on sword play? Not just being effective, like Sigismund, but with a difference in perception of what being skilled with a sword means. I would stick with my picks. :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I would call the IF First Company a bit of an outlier though. This trend is not represented within the entire Legion. I have no idea about DA, but they seem to have more swords scattered around. Makes sense, given how they are a mix between between Arthurian and medieval knights. Since you mentioned spears though, I find it actually rather funny how underrepresented the most common weapon in historical warfare is in 40k and 30k. Not that Warhammer has a lot in common with history though :D But then your classic spear carrier in history is typically less skilled than the exceptional warrior who becomes an Astartes. For that kind of warrior a sword is generally more practical. The only big exceptions I can think of to that rule is the Zulus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 A Tulwar is a sword tho... I wouldn't say the average joe WS is better...perhaps roughly equal but from a different school/philosophy of bladework And there in lies the problem. It places the white scars in a premier position because of that 'different school/philosophy'. If that existed it would be the school/philosophy of EVERY legion, because culture applies to languages, food, personal relationships, hierarchies, etc but it doesn't have any effect on how to swing a sword best. Only practice and constant training matter, and to say paint the white scars like that is as bad As the racist accents in the novels. Uh...I think average joe WS are prob roughly equal to average joe EC or DA, given the same amount of training WS training prob emphasises speed more...and the techniques would be diff from EC or DA techniques Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 We are talking past each other. The White Scars being good with a blade as a narrative device is well intentioned but poorly executed. Having the Asian legion being amazing with a sword because of their special training and unique mystical philosophy is a stereotype. There are some things that are just so on the nose it's poorly executed and this is one of them. BL has been well intentioned with them but sometimes things slip. It doesn't make the white scars any less cool to not be as good as the dark angels or EC with a sword when they have tons of other things going for them, too include being super awesome fighter pilots and everyone has their own Xiphon (from PoH). Awesome riders on jet bikes or their own cool close combat rules. White Scars come from the same catagory as Imperials fists. You've got some awesome veterans who are blade masters, but the legion as a whole is not, and that's ok because not any one legion should just be so much better than anyone else. Dark Angels or EC can take this one and it doesn't make anyone less cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I'm thinking 300... those spears were just brutal. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FCfdyroV7kc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329301-best-swordsmen-legion/page/2/#findComment-4608352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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