Silver Skulls

[Lords of Preyspire]

Hi all!

 

Do we have any solid info on the origins of the skulls? I want to do a psyker heavy heresy ultramarine army and I think it could be cool to use them as a template. The use of divination is right up my fluff alley as well.

 

I have seen whispering of them being an iron warriors loyalist chapter originally under dantioc.

Even if that's end up being the case do people think it is more likely that he was just the chapter master of an ultramarine chapter?

 

All help is greatly received.

[Brother Tyler]

I've added the "Silver Skulls Chapter" and "Silver Skulls" tags to your topic. If you click the tags, the site will return a number of other topics that also use those tags; and you'll find a wealth of information in those returned topics.

[Lords of Preyspire]

Apologies. I'll go look at those ones.

 

.......time passes.........

 

Had a little read, very interested now. Going to have to read one of the books and get a better feel for them.

[deathspectersgt7]

They are of Ultra-stock . Just read Silver Skulls : Portents it is a pretty good read .

[Lords of Preyspire]

Cool man, thanks for the tip. I just bought it. I have to say I'm loving the heavy divination angle. I'm hopeing we get a bit of early info on them so I can theme a heresy army around an early version of them.

 

Thinking about trying to use a terminator chaplain and two librarians as my HQs. Potentially have the sergeants with silver helmes.

 

Or maybe try something really aggressive like a 20 man dispoiler with Chaplin and librarian

[SickSix]

I have been wanting to do an IA article on them for a while but just never make the time. For a while we had a very active SS thread that had lots of info bit over the years most of those folks aren't active any more.

 

They are an Ultra Successor, the question is more of where did the heraldry comes from. Was it in honor of Dantioch? Maybe. And how much of their current culture is do to their current homeworld? (Seems like a lot)

 

The SS could have been a very different chapter early on before they became entrenched on Varsavia. There really isn't anything written about them before they lived on the headhunter world.

[Race Bannon]

You could lead the IA article efforts ^_^

[Lords of Preyspire]

They are an Ultra Successor, the question is more of where did the heraldry comes from. Was it in honor of Dantioch? Maybe. And how much of their current culture is do to their current homeworld? (Seems like a lot)

 

The SS could have been a very different chapter early on before they became entrenched on Varsavia. There really isn't anything written about them before they lived on the headhunter world.

Totally. They may well have been very different.

However, I personally really like seeing that strong (legion) chapter or company character between the 30k an 40k versions. I love seeing it in the Imperial fists and I really enjoyed it in HH:Tempest.

 

I like that In Tempest it says that although Guilliman standardised the chapters, an element of specialisation was also permitted. For me, these act as a nice through line between versions. That's the kind of stuff that I would like to have a go at. Even if it's a bit loose and broad.

 

So I guess a question to you, and other SS lore masters is, what practises do we know come from the chapters home world and what could be part of a longer chapter tradition?

 

If we believe some of the older art, they are fully silver with the skull icon at the moment of the second founding.

That's what? A few years after the siege of terra? I can imagine that they had quite a strong chapter (or company) personality leading up to and around the siege of terra.

So I don't think that adding some silver to some of the armour detail would be totally mad or out of the realms of possibility.

 

I think it's very possible that they had a strong contingent of librarians. I'm not suggesting they are anything like the prognosticators. More of a starting point that would evolve into that system.

 

I'm not trying to imply that you don't know any of this, it's more a vehicle for me to expel brain thoughts.

 

So what do you guys think. Total nonsense?

[SickSix]

I agree that their core personality would survive any homeworld movement being they were a 2nd founding chapter.

 

I imagine that the original Ultra Chapter #3207 maybe had a very strong chief librarian who was very close to the CM. The CM probably didn't do anything without the divining of his Librarian. And that chief librarian was probably very gifted in divination and thats what started the train.

 

Honestly after reading both books and short stories I honestly can't say that the SS have a unique or favorite strategy. They seem to be the epitome of the elite strike force that SM are supposed to be. They will adapt strategy but generally send a customized force to strike at the head of the enemy.

 

Honestly I think they are probably better at being Codex marines than the Ultras. Taking the Codex as what Guilliman intended and not as hard rules written in stone.

[Lords of Preyspire]

Yeah I think the idea of the strong original chief librarian is a solid one. Having that twin leadership at the SS chapters inception could be a fun thing to play with.

 

I happy with the idea that the chapters fighting style is pretty much the elite rapid striking SMs that you would expect. Plus it means that even I your theme in your force, it's open to play with what you want.

 

Yes to the codex comment. I hadn't really though about that at all.

[Lords of Preyspire]

I see in the old thread some brought up the idea of the mechanical faced Eikos Lamiad potentially being an insperation for the SS. Do we know anything about what happened post Calth to Tauro Nicodemus? I think as a superstitious chapter it's an avenue worth investigating ;).

[Lords of Preyspire]

For anybody that's interested, I'm looking at you second founding ultra fans. I had a brief Internet chat with Sarah Cawkwell yesterday on the topic of the Skulls origins. At the time of her writing the books, GW saw them as an ultramarine chapter. Her plan was to push them in the white scars direction but was asked by GW to have them as ultramarines.

 

Interestingly I think you can get a bit of a white scars vibe at times. I actually think it's cooler that they ended up as ultras (I would do).

 

But it has changed the fluff of my army a bit. I was going to go for a strait heresy ultra force with lots of librarians. That will still be the case. But I think I'm going to do a shattered legion with white scars. The white scars had a large influence on the Silver Skulls 40k books so it makes a sort of meta sense to me that they be play a part in my heresy era silver skulls.

 

I need to ask a scars lore master what happened to the scar on imperious secundus.

[Brother Clavero]

 Personally, I fancy that the Silver Skulls were started with loyal members of the Iron Warriors. At one time, I believe that the older fluff listed them as an first founding legion/chapter!   

 

  Note, just saw the date of the last post in January. Didn't mean to resurrect a dead thread!

[yodaid764]

Why do you feel like they are connected to the Iron Warriors?

[Brother Clavero]

  Simply because of the chapter badge and that it would make a great story. Is there any solid proof, sadly, no.  If you are familiar with the HH series, Dantioch became a accepted and trusted part of the Ultramarines. It wouldn't be much of a stretch for Guiliman to set them up in their own chapter, albeit fleshed out with Ultramarines when the legion was split up. 

 

  Fast forward to "today" in the fluff, after so much time passing, probably any Iron Warrior identity would probably be lost anyway. In one of the short stories, it seems that they have more of an issue with individuals that come from the southern parts of their recruiting world. They refer to them as "savages" and did not want to promote one of them to a company captain.

 

  Basically though, I just like the idea!      

[Spiky Norman]

  Simply because of the chapter badge and that it would make a great story. Is there any solid proof, sadly, no.  If you are familiar with the HH series, Dantioch became a accepted and trusted part of the Ultramarines. It wouldn't be much of a stretch for Guiliman to set them up in their own chapter, albeit fleshed out with Ultramarines when the legion was split up. 

 

  Fast forward to "today" in the fluff, after so much time passing, probably any Iron Warrior identity would probably be lost anyway. In one of the short stories, it seems that they have more of an issue with individuals that come from the southern parts of their recruiting world. They refer to them as "savages" and did not want to promote one of them to a company captain.

 

  Basically though, I just like the idea!      

Plus the Silver Skulls have unknown origins, which is why I think this whole idea has room to live.

I know it is mentioned that apothecaries conducted tests further on in the timeline, and established that their geneseed is that of Guilliman, but personally I think that could just as well be a cover-up to stop other parties being suspecious of the Silver Skulls. :-)

...Also the pictures I've seen of Barabas Dantioch, his mask really does look like the Silver Skulls chapter icon.

 

Most of all though, it just makes the Silver Skulls more interesting, and provides them with some much needed "depths" as deserved for being one of the original chapters displayed in the Rogue Trader book.

[Ascanius]

I prefer the idea that the Silver Skulls were given their name and icon in honour of Barabas Dantioch, but are still otherwise an Ultramarines successor.

 

Partly this is because Dantioch is very much alone - there are other loyalist Iron Warriors floating around the galaxy, but they're not with him - and it's not very plausible that his gene-seed alone would be enough to found a chapter; partly it's because it seems more in line with the Imperial way of thinking that using the gene-seed of Traitor Legions would be forbidden, no matter how loyal an individual from one of those Legions may have proved himself to be.

 

I have another possible explanation for the Silver Skulls' particular interest in divination that ties them to Dantioch, though. It seems to me that one of the key traits of the IV Legion that Dantioch exemplified was foresight, in the mundane sense of being capable of extrapolating possibilities and preparing for them. His design of the Schadenhold is instructive; not only was he able to construct a fortress capable of holding out for a year against the Legion most specialised in siege warfare, he had conceived a failsafe that would deny the use of such a superlative fortress to any enemy that was able to capture it.

 

Dantioch's crippling by the entropic field generated by the Hrud could also tie in to this aspect of the Silver Skulls in a few related ways. First, the Hrud are in some ways an "outside-context problem" for the Imperium; their nature is much stranger than most other xenos species, and they're accordingly that much harder to deal with - a danger that could not be foreseen through mundane means. Second, Dantioch was punished by Perturabo not just for losing half of his grand company to the Hrud, but for asserting that it was Perturabo's decision to purge the Hrud that prompted the disastrous migration - that is, for claiming that the Primarch failed to properly consider the consequences of his actions. Third, the Hrud may or may not be migrating through time to flee some catastrophe - which could be a far-future event they're migrating backward through time to escape.

 

So, imagine that the Silver Skulls were founded not just to honour a hero who remained loyal and proved himself invaluable, but based on his example: a chapter inspired by a warrior whose greatest virtue was his keen planner's mind, who also had personal experience of dangers in the galaxy that could not be anticipated except perhaps through the diviner's arts - a figure whose unique skull-like mask might be kept as a relic long after his memory has faded.

 

Filter that through 10,000 years of the Imperium's descent into dogmatic mysticism, and you might get a chapter dominated by psychic diviners which takes the heads of its most powerful foes and displays their silver-dipped skulls as trophies.

[Spiky Norman]

@mhacdebhandia Great additional thoughts on this.

 

One thing that is also interesting to add to that, is that what about Cawl? He has access to all gene-seeds including the Iron Warriors, and since he is ancient might he know of this past?

Could he have used the Iron Warriors gene-seed to make new Primaris marines to reinforce the Silver Skulls? Either alone or mixed with Ultramarines?

If we agree that Dantioch was a friend of the Ultramarines, maybe Cawl could do/have done this with Guillimans blessings?

[Brother Clavero]

  Mhacdebhandia: Great post!!

 

  Spiky Norman: Seems plausible to me. My idea is that, originally, the chapter would be mostly Ultramarine with a few loyalist Iron Warriors mixed in. As far as gene-seed goes, I can see that any Iron Warrior Gene-seed would be kept in permanent stasis as an act of honour and to make sure the "secret" never got out!  

[Spiky Norman]

Just wanted to share my first attempt at using my homemade Silver Skulls decalsheet on an old test marine model. This is a pretty zoomed in, though, but at a hands lenght it looks pretty sharp.

 

I think it's a 'proof of concept', and I can make it look a little better on my subsequent attempts, so hopefully it'll work out great, and I'll soon be able to show it in a proper (primaris) Silver Skulls marine. :-)

[Brother Clavero]

  Very nice! Good and bright and fits the pad well!

[Spiky Norman]

Just wanted to give a heads up, that I've uploaded a complete set of decal sheets for the Silver Skulls chapters 2nd. company.

You can find the files here:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/files/file/566-silver-skulls-2nd-company-decals/

 

Be sure to also read the little instruction on how to print and use them.

 

 

Hope someone else can get some joy out of printing their own Silver Skulls decals. :-)

[Spiky Norman]

Better late than ever - Even though I finished my Silver Skulls primaris army almost a year ago, I never got around to take a few photos of the minis, showing off some of the custom the decals.

Well now I finally have added a few photos to the Silver Skulls folder in the Gallery. Here are two of them:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/gallery/album/13629-silver-skulls/

[SickSix]

Nice banner! Late to the revival of this thread but glad to see more interested in the SS!

 

I wish Sarah Cawkwell would come back to the B&C.

[Brother Lunkhead]

Whether founded directly with Ultramarine gene seed or by loyalist Iron Warriors under the auspices of Big Bobby G, I really like the association with Barabas Dantioch. Given that the bold heraldry fits so well with current lore, I hope the GW fluffsmiths give due honour to this inspirational idea