Horus Heresy Book 43 in April

[DukeLeto69]

Phoebus....hmmm

 

So now you are saying what matters is when material is released in relation to a narrative timeline? Since when was the Horus Heresy series particularly chronological? It has jumped back and forth all he way through. The stories in The Primarchs being a good example. It has always been more of a setting with a story spine that overall moves towards a final outcome.

 

Take Crimson King. If Graham McNeil had been able to deliver that book as originally planned then we would have likely seen that two years ago. So how does it fit with the narrative timeline?

 

What about Propsero Burns? Wasn't that originally supposed to come out before Thousand Sons (or concurrently) but then Dan Abnett was diagnosed with epilepsy and the books was understandably delayed and we therefore read TT quite a way in advance of PB. How did that fit with the narrative timeline?

 

The scheduling, as you know, is driven by real world issues such as availability of commissioned authors to write content.

 

So I do not buy or accept your argument on narrative timeline being a reason for why BL cannot follow the same product release and pricing approach taken by other companies in different sectors. Using tech companies was simply the easiest example but all sectors do it to some degree. What about razor blades? The new 5 blade with lubrication strip combined with moisturiser strip and safety guard wires etc etc gets released at a premium price before dropping to the real price some 12 months later (having been through several packaging and bundling discounts to shift units at different price points over that time). Same thing.

 

I am not saying that approach is good for customers but I am saying that customers can influence behaviour by refusing to buy product at inflated prices. Just be patient and wait. If BL didn't shift those shiny limited editions or premium hardbacks they would stop making them.

[DarkChaplain]

Video games are another example. New big releases drop at 60 bucks initially, then have sales and a pricedrop down the line, usually to around 30 and 20 later. But before then, a lot of games release DLC as well, which is additional content to be bought extra.

 

But a year or two later after all DLC is out, you may get a Game of the Year or Gold Edition of the game plus DLC for 30 bucks or less. People who bought everything as it released right away with the full pricetag generally get pissy about it, but they *still* were willing to pay the original price to be early adopters and get years of a headstart on folk who were just waiting patiently.

 

Prices go down over time in almost every industry. Books are one of the few areas where that doesn't happen as a rule on the exact same product (in Germany especially due to the prices on the back being binding for stores here), but with different formats. Hardbacks go to paperback, which have a much lower pricetag. Most publishers go from hardback to trade paperback (B format usually) to Mass Market Paperbacks later, which are still a few bucks less than the trade format. Novellas and short stories get bundled in anthologies all the time from various sources.

 

Am I supposed to be mad now that I bought Brian McClellan's Powder Mage short stories as they appeared just because there was an anthology ebook released down the line with a new story? No, I ended up buying the anthology as well because I had no regrets about it since the product itself was great and enjoyable to me. I got to read stuff early and satisfied my curiosity, and then I got a neatly bundled release too.

 

Are we mad at Omnibus releases too? Because it is the same principle. Buying a 15 bucks Omnibus is cheaper than buying three 10 bucks paperbacks, or the hardbacks at 20 to get another year of a headstart.

 

Besides, there was nothing forcing anybody to get the individual ebook releases, limited edition hardbacks or audio dramas. Nothing except somebody's own compulsion. For *years* we have been told that everything will be in every common format eventually. We knew the drill since Legacies of Betrayal at the latest. Shattered Legions as a title especially has been around for years as something they were planning to do.

It was never in doubt that all these stories would be collected as part of the numbered series eventually.

[HeritorA]

I want to be clear. I'm not upset because the schedule isn't going fast enough.

 

I'm also not upset about efforts to get newer readers caught.

 

That last bit, however, DOES strike me as an apologist line. Shattered Legions as a numbered novel is exactly the sort of thing I am against. Seventh Serpent came out a few months before Meduson, which carried the balance of the material found in Shattered Legions. Who exactly is this novel aimed at? A reader who picked up the Horus Heresy series in the last 12-24 months and has gone through Books 1-42 in that time period?

 

Consider this: up until, oh, Book Twenty-something, the onus of this series was in producing novels. When Primarchs and Shadows of Treachery were released, in fact, the system was the reverse of what it is now. Those two were numbered books whose individual stories were in turn made available separate. And when the odd limited edition novella came out and readers lamented it not being available to everyone, they were told that, well, said story wasn't exactly integral to the main storyline. That, by the way, was the specific reasoning given for Aurelian. Now, it's the opposite. Supposedly non-essential tales - novellas, short stories, audio shorts, e-shorts, etc. - are being packaged as numbered novels of the main series.

 

The reader has two options. They can pick up all this material when it's initially released, at a marked-up cost that often exceeds that of the actual full-length novels. Alternately, they can wait one or two years for them to be released in a collection, ignoring the fact that by the time this happens there is the very real possibility that the series has moved on to a new story arc. So, for the privilege of reading these events that will be deemed novel/anthology-worthy in the future in the time-frame that makes most sense to the release schedule, you have to shell out double or more the amount a book such as Shattered Legions will cost.

 

So yeah, several of you are correct: this sort of thing is a tremendous deal for anyone who happened to jump into this series recently... or who happens to possess the sort of bizarre discipline that would lead them to take a break from reading the series for 1-2 years at a time, in order for the various non-novelized material to be collected at a bargain price. If you're actually interested in reading this series' releases when they make the most sense, however, you are stuck with paying what amounts to a luxury tax far greater than the ultimate price of the eventual Numbered Book.

 

Sorry, we can respectfully agree to disagree, but I can never be convinced that this is somehow fair toward the long-term audience.

Because it is not and never will be. That's called additional profit that could be used from newcomers. 

 

'As of right now, however, we have a mind-boggling marketing plan that sees the eBook format of a 150-page Novella that's not actually limited in a way priced at $25 for as long as a year while the eBook format of a 500+-page Novel is priced at $16. That's nuts.'

- cause tis nuts, especially then 500+page novels are a rarity to start with. Now standard BL novel is 225 pages (265 - but 40 are blank pages and advertisement of some really old or bad book)

 

'And respectfully, some of those comparisons you made are neither here nor there. Tech companies aren't balancing release schedules and prices with a narrative timeline. Completely different considerations go into buying a smartphone versus following an ongoing storyline. '

- you won all discussion with this comment! 

[DukeLeto69]

HeritorA... Nope. Read my comment on narrative timeline. It simply doesn't exist in HH to the extent that it should dictate what is released when.

[HeritorA]

HeritorA... Nope. Read my comment on narrative timeline. It simply doesn't exist in HH to the extent that it should dictate what is released when.

It  was created with the release of the first Forge World HH book. And from that time it became a strategy where all steps are chosen long before anyone start writing anything.

Laurie said himself - first years of HH was a wild west, but after Betrayal release everything went Victorian England!

[Mellow]

I'm sorry but reprints make me sad.

 

I'm still buying this book when it comes out though. You can't stop my addiction. It's unstoppable.

[Phoebus]

I'm not moving the goalposts, if that's what you're implying, DukeLeto69.

Beyond that, I'm sorry, but you're conflating the chronological with the narrative, which is not my point at all. Shattered Legions, the anthology in question, collects stories that were released 1-2 years ago. The chronology of those stories as it relates to the larger storyline is not an issue, because a number of Numbered Novels take looks at the past or are set entirely prior to the timeline of earlier novels (e.g., Descent of Angels, Fallen Angels). What is relevant is that, in the 1-2 years since the material included in Shattered Legions was originally released, the Horus Heresy storyline has moved on to other story arcs. The Khagan has returned to Terra, Russ failed to take out Horus, and Alpharius attempted an invasion aimed at opening the gates of Sol to Horus. That's what I mean by narrative timeline, and within that context what happened to Shadrak Meduson, the crew of the Sisypheum, etc., is old news.

Regarding The Crimson King, I'm sorry man, but how is that not apples and oranges? We can't compare a novel delayed due to unforeseen circumstances with an anthology of older material whose release date was planned with an eye toward maximizing sales and even redundant sales.

Finally, I'm aware of market forces and the concepts of supply and demand or voting with your wallet. But here's the thing, man: business doesn't need to be defined by practices such as the ones we're discussing. Hell, one could argue said practices are not even the best way to meet or increase profit margins. Saying "be patient" is all well and good, but try telling me that Black Library would be happy about the preponderance of their customer base opting to skip their Limited Editions and simply waiting 2-3 years for cheaper Hardbacks or even Paperbacks. Of course they wouldn't be. Their market strategy is contingent on the bet that most of their readers won't wait.

In closing, I'll ask you to reconsider the following scenario, which I brought up earlier:

Let's say Black Library released Book 43 one or two years ago, when Seventh Serpent, Meduson, and the rest of the material it includes were first released, in Hardback, eBook, and Audio Drama (or whatever it's called) formats. And let's say they simultaneously released Seventh Serpent and Meduson as Limited Edition Novellas. Do you think the LE's would sell out? If the answer is no, that's not an excuse to keep someone waiting for a couple of years and/or force them to make redundant purchases. That's cause for Black Library to re-examine their product.

[Phoebus]

DarkChaplain,

As you probably expected, I disagree with that example you raised, as well.

Well, more specifically, with how it's framed.

Where individual video game titles are concerned, price drops are largely due to longevity. Beyond that, though? We're talking about a completely different animal, sales-wise. Consider what a video game title release might look like if it adhered to the Horus Heresy standard:

The developers of Witcher 3 release Hearts of Stone and Blood and Wine, two DLCs whose playing time is rated around a third to a half that of regular game titles, each. These are initially made available to only 2-3,000 customers... for $120 each (double the price of a regular video game title, just as Limited Edition Novellas are generally twice the price of a Hardback edition). About a year later, around the same time Witcher 4 is released to the entire public for $60, Hearts of Stone and Blood and Wine are re-released to the entire public for roughly $40 each (ePub formats of Limited Edition Novellas initially go for around two thirds of the cost of the Hardback edition of the Anthology they will eventually be included in). About a year after that, shortly after Witcher 5 was released to the entire public for $60, Hearts of Stone and Blood and Wine are re-released yet again, along with all the other, smaller DLCs made for Witcher 3, for a total of $60 (the Anthology costs no more than a Numbered Novel). This final release is called Witcher 6.

I'm sure you'll agree that this is not how the video game market works at all. DLCs are universally cheaper than actual game titles and supplement the narrative of the title they were made for. They very rarely are released after an actual sequel has been released, much less kept at a higher price point as part of a pre-coordinated sales campaign that bills them as a numbered title in a larger saga.

Now, at the risk of sounding self-contradictory, I don't have a problem with Omnibuses. Why? Because they're not numbered titles.

Finally, I don't think anyone is ignorant regarding the fact that all these stories were going to be in every common format, or that they would all be put in the numbered series. Knowledge of said model and criticizing it are not mutually exclusive.

[Roomsky]

 

 

Witcher allegory

 

 

You win for that alone.

[DukeLeto69]

I'm not moving the goalposts, if that's what you're implying, DukeLeto69. ;)

Beyond that, I'm sorry, but you're conflating the chronological with the narrative, which is not my point at all. Shattered Legions, the anthology in question, collects stories that were released 1-2 years ago. The chronology of those stories as it relates to the larger storyline is not an issue, because a number of Numbered Novels take looks at the past or are set entirely prior to the timeline of earlier novels (e.g., Descent of Angels, Fallen Angels). What is relevant is that, in the 1-2 years since the material included in Shattered Legions was originally released, the Horus Heresy storyline has moved on to other story arcs. The Khagan has returned to Terra, Russ failed to take out Horus, and Alpharius attempted an invasion aimed at opening the gates of Sol to Horus. That's what I mean by narrative timeline, and within that context what happened to Shadrak Meduson, the crew of the Sisypheum, etc., is old news.

Regarding The Crimson King, I'm sorry man, but how is that not apples and oranges? We can't compare a novel delayed due to unforeseen circumstances with an anthology of older material whose release date was planned with an eye toward maximizing sales and even redundant sales.

Finally, I'm aware of market forces and the concepts of supply and demand or voting with your wallet. But here's the thing, man: business doesn't need to be defined by practices such as the ones we're discussing. Hell, one could argue said practices are not even the best way to meet or increase profit margins. Saying "be patient" is all well and good, but try telling me that Black Library would be happy about the preponderance of their customer base opting to skip their Limited Editions and simply waiting 2-3 years for cheaper Hardbacks or even Paperbacks. Of course they wouldn't be. Their market strategy is contingent on the bet that most of their readers won't wait.

In closing, I'll ask you to reconsider the following scenario, which I brought up earlier:

Let's say Black Library released Book 43 one or two years ago, when Seventh Serpent, Meduson, and the rest of the material it includes were first released, in Hardback, eBook, and Audio Drama (or whatever it's called) formats. And let's say they simultaneously released Seventh Serpent and Meduson as Limited Edition Novellas. Do you think the LE's would sell out? If the answer is no, that's not an excuse to keep someone waiting for a couple of years and/or force them to make redundant purchases. That's cause for Black Library to re-examine their product.

Ah now I understand your point about narrative timeline in which case I agree the Crimson King and Propsero Burns examples are not relevant.

 

I hear what you are saying and can sympathise if not agree.

 

While the release model BL follow clearly annoys you and HeritorA and others, it doesn't bother me because my purchase decisions are different and all I see is a fairly normal pattern.

 

P.S. are you saying to DC that if the anthologies (or specifically this one) was not a numbered release you would not have a problem or complaint?

[HeritorA]

DarkChaplain,

As you probably expected, I disagree with that example you raised, as well.

Well, more specifically, with how it's framed.

Where individual video game titles are concerned, price drops are largely due to longevity. Beyond that, though? We're talking about a completely different animal, sales-wise. Consider what a video game title release might look like if it adhered to the Horus Heresy standard:

The developers of Witcher 3 release Hearts of Stone and Blood and Wine, two DLCs whose playing time is rated around a third to a half that of regular game titles, each. These are initially made available to only 2-3,000 customers... for $120 each (double the price of a regular video game title, just as Limited Edition Novellas are generally twice the price of a Hardback edition). About a year later, around the same time Witcher 4 is released to the entire public for $60, Hearts of Stone and Blood and Wine are re-released to the entire public for roughly $40 each (ePub formats of Limited Edition Novellas initially go for around two thirds of the cost of the Hardback edition of the Anthology they will eventually be included in). About a year after that, shortly after Witcher 5 was released to the entire public for $60, Hearts of Stone and Blood and Wine are re-released yet again, along with all the other, smaller DLCs made for Witcher 3, for a total of $60 (the Anthology costs no more than a Numbered Novel). This final release is called Witcher 6.

I'm sure you'll agree that this is not how the video game market works at all. DLCs are universally cheaper than actual game titles and supplement the narrative of the title they were made for. They very rarely are released after an actual sequel has been released, much less kept at a higher price point as part of a pre-coordinated sales campaign that bills them as a numbered title in a larger saga.

Now, at the risk of sounding self-contradictory, I don't have a problem with Omnibuses. Why? Because they're not numbered titles.

Finally, I don't think anyone is ignorant regarding the fact that all these stories were going to be in every common format, or that they would all be put in the numbered series. Knowledge of said model and criticizing it are not mutually exclusive.

You kind off get wrong with the numbers for Witcher 3 DLC. It is much more than 2-3k users at start. Any BL book could only dream to get Wicher 3 DLC numbers on sale.

I'm not moving the goalposts, if that's what you're implying, DukeLeto69.

Beyond that, I'm sorry, but you're conflating the chronological with the narrative, which is not my point at all. Shattered Legions, the anthology in question, collects stories that were released 1-2 years ago. The chronology of those stories as it relates to the larger storyline is not an issue, because a number of Numbered Novels take looks at the past or are set entirely prior to the timeline of earlier novels (e.g., Descent of Angels, Fallen Angels). What is relevant is that, in the 1-2 years since the material included in Shattered Legions was originally released, the Horus Heresy storyline has moved on to other story arcs. The Khagan has returned to Terra, Russ failed to take out Horus, and Alpharius attempted an invasion aimed at opening the gates of Sol to Horus. That's what I mean by narrative timeline, and within that context what happened to Shadrak Meduson, the crew of the Sisypheum, etc., is old news.

Regarding The Crimson King, I'm sorry man, but how is that not apples and oranges? We can't compare a novel delayed due to unforeseen circumstances with an anthology of older material whose release date was planned with an eye toward maximizing sales and even redundant sales.

Finally, I'm aware of market forces and the concepts of supply and demand or voting with your wallet. But here's the thing, man: business doesn't need to be defined by practices such as the ones we're discussing. Hell, one could argue said practices are not even the best way to meet or increase profit margins. Saying "be patient" is all well and good, but try telling me that Black Library would be happy about the preponderance of their customer base opting to skip their Limited Editions and simply waiting 2-3 years for cheaper Hardbacks or even Paperbacks. Of course they wouldn't be. Their market strategy is contingent on the bet that most of their readers won't wait.

In closing, I'll ask you to reconsider the following scenario, which I brought up earlier:

Let's say Black Library released Book 43 one or two years ago, when Seventh Serpent, Meduson, and the rest of the material it includes were first released, in Hardback, eBook, and Audio Drama (or whatever it's called) formats. And let's say they simultaneously released Seventh Serpent and Meduson as Limited Edition Novellas. Do you think the LE's would sell out? If the answer is no, that's not an excuse to keep someone waiting for a couple of years and/or force them to make redundant purchases. That's cause for Black Library to re-examine their product.

Ah now I understand your point about narrative timeline in which case I agree the Crimson King and Propsero Burns examples are not relevant.

I hear what you are saying and can sympathise if not agree.

While the release model BL follow clearly annoys you and HeritorA and others, it doesn't bother me because my purchase decisions are different and all I see is a fairly normal pattern.

P.S. are you saying to DC that if the anthologies (or specifically this one) was not a numbered release you would not have a problem or complaint?

I'm curious why it's normal to you, no grievance intended here - just curiousity why it's model is normal to you?

[Phoebus]

DukeLeto69,

 

Simply not making an anthology a Numbered Entry doesn't fix the problem for me. We would still be looking at a significant amount of Horus Heresy material that isn't made available to the preponderance of the readership until a significant amount of time after the Limited Edition release - and even then, it's either at a markup price, after the narrative has shifted to another arc, or both.

 

I'll grant you that "significant" is subjective, but think about this for a second. Of the first ten Numbered Entries, only Tales of Heresy was an anthology. Numbered Entries 11-20 included Age of Darkness and The Primarchs. I struggle to recall if anything in those first three anthologies was a re-release, delayed or otherwise. Numbered Entries 21-30 had Shadows of Treachery and The Mark of Calth. Book 22's novellas were first printed there, though. I can't recall if any of Book 25's were delayed re-releases.

 

So far, so good.

 

Where it starts getting crazy is during the release schedule for Numbered Entries 31-40. Five of those ten entries were anthologies. Legacies of Betrayal was a tad annoying because it heralded the direction we're talking about: individual stories being re-packaged as part of a Numbered Entry as part of a pre-planned sales strategy. If you had bought those stories, now you were stuck with buying them again. If you didn't want anything to do with those stories, you had to accept that they would constitute at least some percentage of your purchase. The alternative was to not include Book 31 in your collection. Either way the message was clear: every single story told was now essential enough to be included in a Numbered Entry, but not so essential as to necessarily be told in a title corresponding with the narrative's current storyline.

 

(By the way, War Without End was a particular low-blow insofar as this topic goes. Of the 21 stories it collected, 10 had already been released in two other anthologies - both in Hardback and eBook editions!)

 

Anyways, I got into a rant again, didn't I? At the end of the day, I hope you can accept that I can't agree that this is either a normal sales pattern for a company or a normal purchase pattern for a consumer. I do understand and accept that everyone will make their own purchase decisions, but I wish the company we're buying from was giving us all better options.

[Tymell]

(By the way, War Without End was a particular low-blow insofar as this topic goes. Of the 21 stories it collected, 10 had already been released in two other anthologies - both in Hardback and eBook editions!)

 

I hate to possibly add fuel to your ire, but all the stories in that one had been released in other anthologies: The Imperial Truth, Sedition's Gate, Blades of the Traitor and Death & Defiance :p

[DukeLeto69]

HeritorA I think I pretty much have explained why I think it is normal. Of course for every argument there is a counter argument. For every example to support there is an example to disprove. But for me it boils down to:

 

A Company with an established customer base releases premium priced product to that customer base as they know they will pay for the early access and/or premium quality version and/or limited edition version (for the perceived rarity and possible future value a limited or first edition might have). These are the early adopters.

 

Once they have sold the expected volumes at premium prices they will then repackage and rerelease at a lower price point to appeal to casual consumers and laggards.

 

Further down the line (normally when they are about to release another premium product) they will also want to shift stock of older product and will do this through bundling offers at lower unit price points to attract the bargain hunter customers.

 

It's called product lifecycle and is common place in FMCG (fast moving consumer goods).

 

I am not saying it is right or a good way to treat customers but I am saying it is normal/common practice. I am also saying that as customers/consumers we all have power to influence the behaviour and approach a company will take. If nobody was prepared to pay premium prices for early ownership or limited edition versions then the company will have to rethink their approach. Clearly this model seems to be working for BL so they are unlikely to change it.

 

And at the risk of being accused of changing my tune, no I haven't. I still don't have a problem with the release pattern because I don't purchase, I wait.

[DukeLeto69]

 

(By the way, War Without End was a particular low-blow insofar as this topic goes. Of the 21 stories it collected, 10 had already been released in two other anthologies - both in Hardback and eBook editions!)

 

 

I hate to possibly add fuel to your ire, but all the stories in that one had been released in other anthologies: The Imperial Truth, Sedition's Gate, Blades of the Traitor and Death & Defiance :p

And people like me didn't buy any of those novella sized hardback anthologies because in my opinion they were too expensive so I chose to wait. And I am glad I did because I will get to read all of those stories in a nice shiny cheap MMPB later this year. Waiting has not lessened my enjoyment of HH. All it did was give me a 12 month or so hiatus while I waited for the HB, TP, MMPB approach to filter through after it was introduced.

[R_F_D]

@DukeLeto69 I think you've literally just answered the thread I started about Primarchs Book 3

[Phoebus]

I hate to possibly add fuel to your ire, but all the stories in that one had been released in other anthologies: The Imperial Truth, Sedition's Gate, Blades of the Traitor and Death & Defiance :p

I'm tracking that, but Blades of the Traitor and Death and Defiance irked me more because they were anthologies available to the mass public! And each cost more than the actual Numbered Entry anthology despite having half the material! :D

[Phoebus]

I am not saying it is right or a good way to treat customers ... I still don't have a problem with the release pattern because I don't purchase, I wait.

I realize it's not particularly fair to truncate a post like this, but isn't that what the argument basically boils down to?

 

... but I am saying it is normal/common practice.

That's the thing, man. I don't think it is, at all. It's easy to talk about it in theory, in terms of market concepts, but I struggle to think of actual examples that would stand up to scrutiny.

 

I am also saying that as customers/consumers we all have power to influence the behaviour and approach a company will take. If nobody was prepared to pay premium prices for early ownership or limited edition versions then the company will have to rethink their approach. Clearly this model seems to be working for BL so they are unlikely to change it.

And I genuinely think it's sad that a company would require its readership to make a decision that hurt its bottom line en-masse before its bosses thought, "You know what? Perhaps making someone choose between paying a 100% markup or waiting for two years* isn't the best way to generate sales and make our product popular."

 

* It occurred to me today that it took five years for Aurelian to get included in a Numbered Entry anthology.

[DukeLeto69]

 

I am not saying it is right or a good way to treat customers ... I still don't have a problem with the release pattern because I don't purchase, I wait.

I realize it's not particularly fair to truncate a post like this, but isn't that what the argument basically boils down to?

... but I am saying it is normal/common practice.

That's the thing, man. I don't think it is, at all. It's easy to talk about it in theory, in terms of market concepts, but I struggle to think of actual examples that would stand up to scrutiny.

I am also saying that as customers/consumers we all have power to influence the behaviour and approach a company will take. If nobody was prepared to pay premium prices for early ownership or limited edition versions then the company will have to rethink their approach. Clearly this model seems to be working for BL so they are unlikely to change it.

And I genuinely think it's sad that a company would require its readership to make a decision that hurt its bottom line en-masse before its bosses thought, "You know what? Perhaps making someone choose between paying a 100% markup or waiting for two years* isn't the best way to generate sales and make our product popular."

* It occurred to me today that it took five years for Aurelian to get included in a Numbered Entry anthology.

Too annoying to break up the quote on an iPad so won't try...

 

1. Yep that is basically what we disagree about. As I said I am cool with that. We don't see things the same (and the world would be boring if everyone did). I respect your opinion and I think you respect mine. Different folks and strokes et al.

 

2. If I get time (now back to work after Xmas holidays) I will think about some examples. The first that springs to mind is the music industry!

 

3. Your comment about the the company is IMHO somewhat naive although I agree it is sad, the world is sad. I agree that some brands have a more socially responsible approach to business but most, including GW, are in business to make profit, pay dividends to shareholders and see their stock value rise to make them a good investment. You also mention "sales" but what actually matters most (particularly to niche/premium businesses) is not sales per se but profit through the margin they make on their products. And believe me the margin on those Limited Edition Hardbacks, Premium Hardbacks, Standard Hardbacks, eBooks and eShorts is very nice indeed. The smallest margin for BL will be on the MMPB releases.

 

4. You have previously mentioned the HH release pattern changing around the time of The Primarchs? I can't remember which book was the first to come out in Premium Hardback? Anyway, the point is that around that time GW/BL realised they could make a bigger margin on their product if they changed their product/release strategy AS LONG AS PEOPLE BOUGHT IT!

 

As long as there are sufficient numbers of customers willing to pay higher price points for either early access or perceived exclusivity the model will continue to work!

 

5. So let me flip this around. I get that you and others are cross about another anthology of previously released material coming out as part of the numbered range. But what exactly is it that annoys YOU?

 

- that you already own the stories?

- that those stories are old in terms of the narrative timeline point?

- that the anthology is a numbered release?

- that there is a perception this release slot could have been filled with a new novel?

- that there is no new novel for a little while?

- that you no longer have exclusivity on those stories?

- that 1-2 years of early access is not enough

- something else?

 

Do you begrudge people like me getting to read these stories? Is it really THAT annoying that Joe public, the great unwashed laggards, will also now get to enjoy those stories in a cheaper format (eventually).

 

Like I have repeatedly said. Stop buying HH for a year. Don't buy event only or Limited Editions. Don't buy eShorts. Wait for the cycle of HB TP MMPB to run its course and then get back onboard and enjoy the ride like me :-)

 

And if you say you cannot do that then you are as much a part of this publishing/release model problem as GW/BL.

 

So I am curious... Clearly you hate the HH release strategy. I get that. So what would YOU do differently?

[HeritorA]

HeritorA I think I pretty much have explained why I think it is normal. Of course for every argument there is a counter argument. For every example to support there is an example to disprove. But for me it boils down to:

A Company with an established customer base releases premium priced product to that customer base as they know they will pay for the early access and/or premium quality version and/or limited edition version (for the perceived rarity and possible future value a limited or first edition might have). These are the early adopters.

Once they have sold the expected volumes at premium prices they will then repackage and rerelease at a lower price point to appeal to casual consumers and laggards.

Further down the line (normally when they are about to release another premium product) they will also want to shift stock of older product and will do this through bundling offers at lower unit price points to attract the bargain hunter customers.

It's called product lifecycle and is common place in FMCG (fast moving consumer goods).

I am not saying it is right or a good way to treat customers but I am saying it is normal/common practice. I am also saying that as customers/consumers we all have power to influence the behaviour and approach a company will take. If nobody was prepared to pay premium prices for early ownership or limited edition versions then the company will have to rethink their approach. Clearly this model seems to be working for BL so they are unlikely to change it.

And at the risk of being accused of changing my tune, no I haven't. I still don't have a problem with the release pattern because I don't purchase, I wait.

I see - thank you for your opinion.

I hate to possibly add fuel to your ire, but all the stories in that one had been released in other anthologies: The Imperial Truth, Sedition's Gate, Blades of the Traitor and Death & Defiance

I'm tracking that, but Blades of the Traitor and Death and Defiance irked me more because they were anthologies available to the mass public! And each cost more than the actual Numbered Entry anthology despite having half the material!

True ;)

[DukeLeto69]

 

I hate to possibly add fuel to your ire, but all the stories in that one had been released in other anthologies: The Imperial Truth, Sedition's Gate, Blades of the Traitor and Death & Defiance :p

I'm tracking that, but Blades of the Traitor and Death and Defiance irked me more because they were anthologies available to the mass public! And each cost more than the actual Numbered Entry anthology despite having half the material! :D

But nobody made anybody buy them! They were expensive so why do it? Why not wait? It is obvious the stories would get rereleased at some point. Surely nobody is so naive not to realise that?

 

As I said above, I waited and it means that later this year I get a nice shiny cheap MMPB release with all the stories from all of those novella sized anthologies. Happy days!

[Taliesin]

I hate to possibly add fuel to your ire, but all the stories in that one had been released in other anthologies: The Imperial Truth, Sedition's Gate, Blades of the Traitor and Death & Defiance

I'm tracking that, but Blades of the Traitor and Death and Defiance irked me more because they were anthologies available to the mass public! And each cost more than the actual Numbered Entry anthology despite having half the material!

But nobody made anybody buy them! They were expensive so why do it? Why not wait? It

Because he wanted to read them then? Do you really have so little empathy that you simply cannot understand this even if it's been explained 10 times to you? It is *such* an easy idea to grasp, and such a natural inclination if you're a fan of a series, to want to buy a new product once it comes out, as it continues the narrative.

[HeritorA]

I hate to possibly add fuel to your ire, but all the stories in that one had been released in other anthologies: The Imperial Truth, Sedition's Gate, Blades of the Traitor and Death & Defiance

I'm tracking that, but Blades of the Traitor and Death and Defiance irked me more because they were anthologies available to the mass public! And each cost more than the actual Numbered Entry anthology despite having half the material!

But nobody made anybody buy them! They were expensive so why do it? Why not wait? It is obvious the stories would get rereleased at some point. Surely nobody is so naive not to realise that?

As I said above, I waited and it means that later this year I get a nice shiny cheap MMPB release with all the stories from all of those novella sized anthologies. Happy days!

Some of us do prefer to read stories then they are first released due to several reasons:

1) We read everything (I did read everything from BL to date) and want something new.

2) To better immerse into setting.

3) To be able to go to any forum and not be afraid of spoilers

[DukeLeto69]

 

 

 

I hate to possibly add fuel to your ire, but all the stories in that one had been released in other anthologies: The Imperial Truth, Sedition's Gate, Blades of the Traitor and Death & Defiance :P

 

I'm tracking that, but Blades of the Traitor and Death and Defiance irked me more because they were anthologies available to the mass public! And each cost more than the actual Numbered Entry anthology despite having half the material! :D

But nobody made anybody buy them! They were expensive so why do it? Why not wait? It

Because he wanted to read them then? Do you really have so little empathy that you simply cannot understand this even if it's been explained 10 times to you? It is *such* an easy idea to grasp, and such a natural inclination if you're a fan of a series, to want to buy a new product once it comes out, as it continues the narrative.

Of course I have empathy, just read all my posts in this thread and you will see that I repeatedly say "I get it" but don't agree. Not agreeing is not the same as not having empathy!

 

Obviously I know someone wants to read something as soon as it is released (ideally so would I but in my opinion many are too expensive to justify) but they are not forced to buy it on release and make a choice to pay a premium for the chance to do so. Some people then complain about the choice they have made!

 

You have choices and are in control of your own finances. If you choose to pay a premium because you cannot be patient and wait for a cheaper alternative then why then complain about your choice.

 

Similarly if you choose to buy event only books or limited edition novellas etc, why then complain when they are released down the line in a different cheaper format?

[DukeLeto69]

Some of us do prefer to read stories then they are first released due to several reasons:

1) We read everything (I did read everything from BL to date) and want something new.

2) To better immerse into setting.

Well that is your preference and a matter of choice. I like that too but having given myself the 12 month hiatus I can do so without resorting to paying premium prices.

 

3) To be able to go to any forum and not be afraid of spoilers

On that one I agree and totally sympathise. If some people are still paying premium prices for initial releases and then discussing on forums then it feels like you are missing out. THAT is something I have had to accept with my approach. Initially I avoided spoilers but now I don't care so much as my memory is pretty crap anyway!

 

Which goes back to my point on market forces. If nobody (or few enough to stop it being viable) paid the premium prices then GW would have to revisit their approach. As long as you guys continue to feed the beast it will continue to eat :LOL: