Black_out Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I'll toss in my hat by saying this has been my favorite bit of SW literature I've read yet. I agree with the others who said it felt like a tie-in with the previous works while also being it's own story. The insight we got for the Flesh Tearers and Dark Angel's was great too, seeing how they handle their own situations in their own ways really helps show the indivuality each chapter really has. I also really enjoyed the mental growth of Ragnar being explored. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4622453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 In my mind, the DA are generally more disciplined and rule-bound...and wouldn't kill out of rage like a brash SW warrior That could be my bias of course. Perhaps there's been a known history of DA dirty acts Would they kill a Space Wolf out of spite, following a duel? No, probably not. Would warriors of the Deathwing gun down Space Wolves in cold blood in order to preserve their Chapter's secrets? Absolutely. They'd regret it every second of the way, but they wouldn't hesitate for a moment. Frankly, the most unrealistic part of Sons of Fenris is that the Dark Angel kill-team didn't try to kill Ragnar and his friends again at the end of the novel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4622636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_F_D Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Regret the killing or regret the secrets? My sense is that the Dark Angels are fervent/puritanical to the extent they are because the shame of the betryal overshadows everything. (This may not be backed up in current canon/literature and based on when I read White Dwarf fluff as a teenager) Haven't read past the prologue so can't comment on Ragnar too much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4622730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 In my mind, the DA are generally more disciplined and rule-bound...and wouldn't kill out of rage like a brash SW warrior That could be my bias of course. Perhaps there's been a known history of DA dirty acts Would they kill a Space Wolf out of spite, following a duel? No, probably not. Would warriors of the Deathwing gun down Space Wolves in cold blood in order to preserve their Chapter's secrets? Absolutely. They'd regret it every second of the way, but they wouldn't hesitate for a moment. Frankly, the most unrealistic part of Sons of Fenris is that the Dark Angel kill-team didn't try to kill Ragnar and his friends again at the end of the novel. Yeah...I'm sure the DA would choose protecting their secrets to sparing SW lives As for what Ragnar does, I do think he does it out of rage rather than spite...though that might be a mimor distinction The reality is he lost first blood and reflexively lashed out because he couldn't handle it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4622848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 R_F_D, I think the Dark Angels would regret the killing. The Dark Angels who have been inducted in the mysteries of the Inner Circle are an interesting study of contradictions in character. With a few notable exceptions, they conduct themselves in a manner befitting warriors of the Adeptus Astartes, whose legacy is that of an honorable knighthood. This is who they wish to be. Their loyalty is so absolute, however, that they will commit the direst deeds to protect the secrets and their cousins of the Unforgiven. This is who they truly are, but it is not something they celebrate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4622852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I think Dark Angels are one of the few if only Astartes to even feel regret. All other chapters can say they have the writ of the Emperor to do absolutely anything in order to protect His Imperium (true or not). All of the otherwise abhorrent acts they commit in order to protect their secrets, are not the Emperor's will but bred from their own urge to make up for their betrayal. It'd be the perfect grimdark IMO for the last Unforgiven to repent and the remaining Angels look back over the millennia of misdeeds done to cover up and finally realize, the ends did not justify the means. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4624131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 R_F_D, I think the Dark Angels would regret the killing. The Dark Angels who have been inducted in the mysteries of the Inner Circle are an interesting study of contradictions in character. With a few notable exceptions, they conduct themselves in a manner befitting warriors of the Adeptus Astartes, whose legacy is that of an honorable knighthood. This is who they wish to be. Their loyalty is so absolute, however, that they will commit the direst deeds to protect the secrets and their cousins of the Unforgiven. This is who they truly are, but it is not something they celebrate. Agreed, Belial and Azrael both found leaving a campaign a stain on their honour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4624202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saphrael Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I think it's telling of the quality of Black Library representation of DA that Ragnar was one of my favourite DA books, which is a theme for ADB. Sorael was representative of the characteristics of the chapter, we got some cool little snippets of DA culture (e.g. 30 hours to a Calibanite day) and despite the outcome of the duel, it didn't feel like faction fan service at all. Essentially what I'm saying is I would trade my newborn son to have ADB write a full-length DA novel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4624512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I don't have criticism against how the duels end I would have been pleasantly surprised if Sorael had humbled Ragnar...but that's purely because of my desire to see the DA shine over the SW Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4624517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saphrael Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I'm with you completely b1soul. I would have loved it if Sorael had of won, especially since I feel that SW have a tendency to come out on top too much in BL materials. That said I think the ending managed to be fitting for both characters and overall very satisfying. What I meant was that these kind of duels can sometimes feel like faction/fan service and favour one side over the other. I was just saying I didn't really get that feeling in this book (or at least no more than you'd expect for the protagonists of a novel). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4624533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Well, many SW fans feel that recently BL has been deliberately trying to take the SW down a peg...of course, I don't agree ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4624585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Well, many SW fans feel that recently BL has been deliberately trying to take the SW down a peg...of course, I don't agree ;) yeah didn't laurie say that at times they try to address fan concerns or misconceptions when commissioning a story? it certainly seems like post pb sw stories sought some sort of balance. i wonder if "reflection cracked" was a similar reaction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4624736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 If it makes you feel better, Ragnar won the duel by luck/accident, not because he was the superior duelist, but I can see how that might be unsatisfying lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4626237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 If it makes you feel better, Ragnar won the duel by luck/accident, not because he was the superior duelist, but I can see how that might be unsatisfying lol Isn't that how most battles are won? A little good fortune goes a long way when battling someone of similar capabilites. Well, many SW fans feel that recently BL has been deliberately trying to take the SW down a peg...of course, I don't agree We also know you just love the Wolves and are in now way biased You just said you wanted Ragnar to lose simply because you think DA's are better than wolves. And if we want to get pedantic, my (and many other Wolves players) problems lie with the Heresy depiction of the Wolves, not their 40k portrayal (I'm quite happy with that part actually). If you wanna see DA's winning honour duals just look at every single one depicted in the Heresy novels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4626430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 When it comesto combat "Lucky is good" Is this book worth getting? I've just finished the ebook of the Russ Primarch book. I've read about 5 books over the last couple of weeks. I'm feeding the addiction! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4626516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I personally think it is one of the best books to ever be released for the Vlka Fenryka When it comesto combat "Lucky is good" Is this book worth getting? I've just finished the ebook of the Russ Primarch book. I've read about 5 books over the last couple of weeks. I'm feeding the addiction! Yes, I think this is worth getting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4626607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Seconded. Be prepared to wail, and gnash, and pull at your hair because this novel isn't an extra hundred or so pages long! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4626611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saphrael Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 If it makes you feel better, Ragnar won the duel by luck/accident, not because he was the superior duelist, but I can see how that might be unsatisfying lol I think that probably qualifies as spoiler territory, but I guess the cat is out of the bag now. I was saying that the result of the duel felt fitting for both characters because Sorael got to exemplify skill with the blade (a DA trait) and would have beaten Ragnar had Ragnar not been lucky (a Ragnar trait) and slipped on the ice. This way both parties can be happy with the result. The SW actually won, but only because he got lucky, and the DA was technically a better duellist, but he didn't win. The duel also came with significant character development for both of them: we see evidence that Sorael had dedicated himself to improving his skills and is given an opportunity to overcome DA stubbornness and Ragnar shows improved maturity and sense of fraternity from where he was at the start of the novel. This is 'both sides won, both sides lost' approach is typical of ADB's work and is one of the reasons his work is so highly sought after in the fandom. Sure it doesn't always 'feel' balanced (see Emperor's Gift) but it's a damned sight better than most. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4626753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 If you wanna see DA's winning honour duals just look at every single one depicted in the Heresy novels. Eh? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4626792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 In my mind, the DA are generally more disciplined and rule-bound...and wouldn't kill out of rage like a brash SW warrior That could be my bias of course. Perhaps there's been a known history of DA dirty acts Would they kill a Space Wolf out of spite, following a duel? No, probably not. Would warriors of the Deathwing gun down Space Wolves in cold blood in order to preserve their Chapter's secrets? Absolutely. They'd regret it every second of the way, but they wouldn't hesitate for a moment. Frankly, the most unrealistic part of Sons of Fenris is that the Dark Angel kill-team didn't try to kill Ragnar and his friends again at the end of the novel. Yeah...I'm sure the DA would choose protecting their secrets to sparing SW lives As for what Ragnar does, I do think he does it out of rage rather than spite...though that might be a mimor distinction The reality is he lost first blood and reflexively lashed out because he couldn't handle it Exactly as later mirrored by Wraight in 'Leman Russ: The Great Wolf'. SW prides and total arrogance cost DA a hundred veterans. Instead of heartful 'sorry' the level of spite and venom in Russ words are beyond any 'brotherhood' range. Plus as DarkKnight said Ragnar won the duel by luck/accident, not because he was the superior duelist. Anyway Ragnar is still the worst book from A D-B yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4626882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Whatever ADB book is his worst...is still better than anything by Kyme, Thorpe, Swallow Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4626885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Whatever ADB book is his worst...is still better than anything by Kyme, Thorpe, Swallow And would ever be, lol/ Totally agree with you. I would better read dozen 'Ragnar's' instead of Kyme salamanders stuff or Thorpe Raven Guard Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4627045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 This isn't a recent release though, right? ... came out in 2015? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4627337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_F_D Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Well the limited edition did, not sure when the other versions came out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4627361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roomsky Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 This isn't a recent release though, right? ... came out in 2015? General retail hardbacks only came out mid-December of last year. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329531-ragnar-blackmane-by-adb/page/3/#findComment-4627392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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