Cover art not as good as it used to be?

[DukeLeto69]

Now I know this will be subjective but looking at the coming soon page and indeed releases over the last year or so, I think the quality of the cover art for Black Library books has dropped (which is at odds with what appears to be the exciting shift in emphasis and a return to more interesting author led stories with arguably more mature themes rather than focusing on hard tie in to the tabletop game).

 

There certainly seems to be a shift towards a more simple, almost comic book style (looks at Warlord Fury of the God Machine or the Primarch covers).

 

Personally I believe the best covers were the ones done by Clint Langley and Jon Sullivan (most of the Space Marine Battles books, at least the early ones). Neil Roberts also.

 

I was thinking about why and it ties in to comments I have made on other threads about BL catering for a more mature audience. The art produced by those guys is more mature. More sophisticated.

 

The new art (there will be exceptions for sure) has the feel of a book aimed at a younger audience. Personally I do not like that.

 

Now there is the saying that you should not judge a book by the cover but we all know that simply isn't true. For the general public looking on Amazon or in a book shop, it is the cover that they see first. A quality cover indicates (though clearly this is also not true all the time) that the content inside the book is quality. The best covers evoke the feeling of the content to sell it to you as a customer.

 

What do others think about the art these days?

Edited January 10, 2017 by DukeLeto69

[IronDrake28]

I think it's pretty hit and miss. Of what I've read recently, Praetorian of Dorn, Master of Mankind, and Red Tithe, they all have awesome covers! Also, though I didn't read much of it, The Beast Arises series had a bunch of cool cover art. :) Edited January 10, 2017 by IronDrake28

[Halandaar]

Indeed; I quite liked the Beast Arises covers but that might perhaps be a design/style thing, rather than the actual art itself. Praetorian of Dorn also had nice art.

 

My personal faves though are the ones Ray Swanland did for the William King Tyrion & Teclis novels, and Talon of Horus. I guess I'm just a fan of his style in general which is why I've enjoyed so many of the Codex covers.

[HeritorA]

I think it's pretty hit and miss. Of what I've read recently, Praetorian of Dorn, Master of Mankind, and Red Tithe, they all have awesome covers! Also, though I didn't read much of it, The Beast Arises series had a bunch of cool cover art.

True - because PoD, Path of Heaven and MoM was done by Neil Roberts and they are amazing. Horus Heresy covers in general stays with the high quality.

Except for the cover of incoming Crimson King. Don't know why - maybe Neil made it quickly, but everything is wrong with it. Proportions, size, content, magic sigils.

 

TBA by various overs - but tis not that bad. Same with the Primarch series. The small, short, novella stuff on the other hand are done by different people and truly horrible. Same as with the latest Codex covers and their internal illustrations.

[IronDrake28]

I agree with you HeritorA. I didn't think that would ever happen. :P

 

But I have to say, the Codex covers (not all the art within), are all pretty damn awesome. The only one I dislike is the 'Nids cover. :(

[Taliesin]

I like all the Neil Roberts covers, and some more than others. 

 

I think the covers for the Primarchs series are also quite good.

 

Not as enthused about the Beast Arises covers, but it's ok.

 

The direction I do not want them to go in is to make the covers dull/neutral looking.

 

Like the trend in fantasy books to give them very neutral covers, or always a guy with a hood on the cover. That I dislike.

 

I like covers with a real painting look. Like Roberts. Or covers of Tolkien books by John Howe/Alan Lee.

[HeritorA]

I agree with you HeritorA. I didn't think that would ever happen.

 

But I have to say, the Codex covers (not all the art within), are all pretty damn awesome. The only one I dislike is the 'Nids cover.

Imperial Agents? Fall of Cadia? Fenris ones?

[Halandaar]

 

Imperial Agents? Fall of Cadia? Fenris ones?

 

Well of those, only Imperial Agents is actually a codex. In any case, I suspect ID28 is referring to the core Codexes, all but 2 of which (Deathwatch, Imperial Agents) were done by Raymond Swanland.

 

The various Codex Supplements, Campaign Books and so on are done by other artists.

[IronDrake28]

 

 

I agree with you HeritorA. I didn't think that would ever happen.

 

But I have to say, the Codex covers (not all the art within), are all pretty damn awesome. The only one I dislike is the 'Nids cover.

Imperial Agents? Fall of Cadia? Fenris ones?

Okay, and Imperial Agents. :P Those other 2 are supplements, which are generally quite cool. Traitor Legions, Wrath of Magnus, and Mont'ka spring to mind.

[HeritorA]

 

 

I agree with you HeritorA. I didn't think that would ever happen.

 

But I have to say, the Codex covers (not all the art within), are all pretty damn awesome. The only one I dislike is the 'Nids cover.

Imperial Agents? Fall of Cadia? Fenris ones?

Okay, and Imperial Agents. Those other 2 are supplements, which are generally quite cool. Traitor Legions, Wrath of Magnus, and Mont'ka spring to mind.

 

They are not so good, comparing to the old quality of Wayne England/ Neil Roberts/Raymond Swanland/Alex Boyd/Tony Ackland

You could check the quality by authors  here http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Artists

And you will see that except for Neil all the new talents can't even be compared to the old ones

[Roomsky]

I disagree, there's always poorer artists along with the good, BL produces too many products for it to be anything otherwise. Older standouts in the poor quality camp include Lord of the Night, the original covers for Aaron's Night Lords trilogy, and all the really old stuff was pretty bad too, like the Scarface Space Marine.

 

Now, we've got Talon of Horus, Neil Roberts is pretty good, though maybe a little past my favorite period of his covers, and The Beast Arises covers are all stunning, IMO.

[HeritorA]

I disagree, there's always poorer artists along with the good, BL produces too many products for it to be anything otherwise. Older standouts in the poor quality camp include Lord of the Night, the original covers for Aaron's Night Lords trilogy, and all the really old stuff was pretty bad too, like the Scarface Space Marine.

 

Now, we've got Talon of Horus, Neil Roberts is pretty good, though maybe a little past my favorite period of his covers, and The Beast Arises covers are all stunning, IMO.

Just check the covers for the 'Storm of Damocles'; 'Tales from the Warzone Fenris', 'Leman Russ', 'Asurmen', and the forthcoming 'Warlord: Fury of the God Machine' (tis cartoonish .....)  - they are HORRIBLE

[Mellow]

I think it's pretty hit and miss. Of what I've read recently, Praetorian of Dorn, Master of Mankind, and Red Tithe, they all have awesome covers! Also, though I didn't read much of it, The Beast Arises series had a bunch of cool cover art. :)

Have to say. TMoM had a good cover. So did PoD.

 

But Red Tithe looked awful. It's cartoony and looks quite amateur compared to the others. Fortunately the story is good and I don't judge a book by its cover.

[Mellow]

I think the covers for the Primarchs series are also quite good.

I can't stand them, lol. It's the eyes y'see. Strange "alien" glowing orbs. No pupils. It's so inhuman. ... and don't say "because they aren't human" :)

[MasterofMankind]

Anyone remember the Deathwatch quick reads covers? I'm pretty sure they take the cake in awfulness

[Phoebus]

Agreed wholeheartedly, DukeLeto69.

 

I don't even think it's a matter of taste being subjective. It doesn't take an art critic to conclude that the covers of The Beast Arises look the way they do because the artist was going for a specific style (which may or may not be someone's cup of tea), versus the covers of the new Ventris books, whose look appears to be informed by the artist's limitations (versus something by Langley, Roberts, Sullivan, etc.).

 

Bluntly speaking, I don't doubt for a heartbeat that Neil Roberts could replicate the style of a new Ventris cover, or that of one of the Deathwatch shorts (if he so chose). I seriously doubt the same can be said in reverse.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Phoebus

[Roomsky]

Agreed wholeheartedly, DukeLeto69.

 

I don't even think it's a matter of taste being subjective. It doesn't take an art critic to conclude that the covers of The Beast Arises look the way they do because the artist was going for a specific style (which may or may not be someone's cup of tea), versus the covers of the new Ventris books, whose look appears to be informed by the artist's limitations (versus something by Langley, Roberts, Sullivan, etc.).

 

Bluntly speaking, I don't doubt for a heartbeat that Neil Roberts could replicate the style of a new Ventris cover, or that of one of the Deathwatch shorts (if he so chose). I seriously doubt the same can be said in reverse.

 

I agree in part, in that indeed, it seems to be a result of limitation of ability rather than a stylistic choice. However, having perused Heritor's suggestions, I can say it is absolutely a matter of personal taste, because I thought most of them were fine (except for that one Space Wolf, you know the one). None of them strike me as much lower in quality than, say, Path of Heaven. And I'd take most of them over the cover to Horus Rising, which looks like a hot mess to me.

 

But there isn't much point debating opinions. I stand by my point that BL has always had a rather large gradient in artistic quality, we're only noticing it now because so many works are being released in such rapid succession.

[DarkChaplain]

Anyone remember the Deathwatch quick reads covers? I'm pretty sure they take the cake in awfulness

 

They weren't even designed to be covers. They were art for the character cards of Deathwatch: Overkill and since they already had art for the characters featured in the stories they commissioned, they used them. There's really nothing wrong with that, and I admit I am actually fond of the character portraits. Some of them are janky, but that actually adds to the overall theme and allowed them to distinguish the characters more.

 

And just for the record: Commissioning new art for eshorts is pretty stupid. If it is a novella, especially when it is planned for a print release, an anthology or a novel, *then* it is worth commissioning unique art. I'm annoyed that they didn't do that for the Legacy of Russ print, but it makes sense not to do it for the individual parts. They've always recycled art, it isn't anything new.

 

 

 

I disagree, there's always poorer artists along with the good, BL produces too many products for it to be anything otherwise. Older standouts in the poor quality camp include Lord of the Night, the original covers for Aaron's Night Lords trilogy, and all the really old stuff was pretty bad too, like the Scarface Space Marine.

 

Now, we've got Talon of Horus, Neil Roberts is pretty good, though maybe a little past my favorite period of his covers, and The Beast Arises covers are all stunning, IMO.

Just check the covers for the 'Storm of Damocles'; 'Tales from the Warzone Fenris', 'Leman Russ', 'Asurmen', and the forthcoming 'Warlord: Fury of the God Machine' (tis cartoonish .....)  - they are HORRIBLE

 

 

 

Tales from the Warzone Fenris is simply an ebundle. Curse of the Wulfen is goofy, yes, but mandated by the design studio. Legacy of Russ has a real lazy and unrelated cover artwork, but Vox Tenebris had great art.

Leman Russ is meh, and my least favorite Primarchs artwork so far, but Guilliman and Magnus are stunning.

Asurmen's been on my to buy list for a while and I am honestly a fan of the cover, and the follow-up on Jain Zar is bloody amazing.

 

Warlord: Fury of the God-Machine is simply a different style. Technically it really is pretty good, though I'm not too impressed with it based on it being a giant mech thing. I've never been too into art of those. The limited edition looks incredible though.

 

I think there's some noticeable contrast in style and grittiness between Warlord and Kingsblade. The latter appears far more active and it feels less clean. But then the scale of Knights and Titans is also very different.

Edited January 10, 2017 by DarkChaplain

[b1soul]

I've always loved Swanland's style

 

His 40K stuff is great

 

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/as heck/80/6c/af806ce927a734dc829049dd2162829c.jpg

 

 

...his AvP and Star Wars work is just as good

 

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/a6/51/5b/a6515b5407a912935909cf3b930fd130.jpg

 

 

 

http://cdn.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/Swanland_Raymond_Three-World-War-4.jpg

 

 

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ee/9f/24/ee9f24ecd36233bd0a2c7f6fda799274.jpg

 

 

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/2c/e7/45/2ce7455ae4c207519bbf27777d6b289c.jpg

 

 

 

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Star-Wars-Art-3.jpg

 

 

 

https://galacticacademy.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/silent-guardian-fb.jpg

 

 

 

http://24.media.tumblr.com/89b18b65c77eba211af224a59584d82d/tumblr_n1c1n1p7bt1t0rituo1_1280.jpg

 

[Phoebus]

I agree in part, in that indeed, it seems to be a result of limitation of ability rather than a stylistic choice. However, having perused Heritor's suggestions, I can say it is absolutely a matter of personal taste, because I thought most of them were fine (except for that one Space Wolf, you know the one). None of them strike me as much lower in quality than, say, Path of Heaven. And I'd take most of them over the cover to Horus Rising, which looks like a hot mess to me.

Honestly, the Leman Russ one is the one that turns me off the most. I think of it, then I think of the cover to Chris Wraight's The Wolf King, and even with the really strange movement Russ is shown executing, the gulf in quality between the two is just so vast.

 

I'm a former art major who never mustered up the guts to follow his own dreams of sequential arts and illustration. Trust me when I say it is not easy for me to come off so critical of someone's artwork, of something they obviously care about and strive to be better at. That having been said, the cover to Leman Russ is something I would expect to see on a niche, amateurish comic book.

 

 

But there isn't much point debating opinions. I stand by my point that BL has always had a rather large gradient in artistic quality, we're only noticing it now because so many works are being released in such rapid succession.

Let me offer a qualified agreement. My qualifier is that the attention the lower quality of some covers is probably reinforced by a corresponding shift in Codices and other products. There used to be a lot more of this, ...

 

... but now there's a lot more of this.

 

 

... and it's getting hard to ignore that the older illustrations carried over to these newer Codices are not just the ones that appeal to a more mature audience, but are also consistently of higher quality, as well.

[Plaguecaster]

They need Adrian Smith back now his art is truly stunning and has that pure grimdark especially the amazing Horus vs The Emperor fight which some of GW's artwork is lacking. However to be fair Josh Reynolds Fabius Bile novel has a pretty awesome cover with a few other good ones too but too much just lack that grimdark which makes 40k so great

[Halandaar]

I've always loved Swanland's style

 

His 40K stuff is great

 

..his AvP and Star Wars work is just as good

 

Yep! Big fan of his work on MTG and WoWTCG / Hearthstone as well.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Halandaar

[Biscuittzz]

Phoebus, that art is what got me into 40k in the first place.The standard is amazing. Look at how proportional everything, the detail in every marine etc.

 

That Crimson Fist piece isn't the worst of the newer styles ( have a look at the current Dark angels codex  ), but still you can see how there is thought put into like the front 3/4 marines and then the back is just scrawled/blurred out.

 

I've seen videos of currently commissioned artists doing speed-paintings on whatever software system they use for creating pieces. They churn out these styles in only a few hours, no wonder they're poor quality.

 

The one piece of artwork that got me into the setting was the one of two cadians aiming their lasguns at a Chaos Champion in TDA, he has a massive tongue sticking out. I can't seem to find it anymore but it was an immaculate piece.

[Phoebus]

Agreed, Biscuittzz. That Crimson Fists piece, what you say about speed-painting puts so much of it into perspective. It's not just the lack of detail, or the lack-luster colors. The composition, as a whole, is uninteresting. Its stagnant. There's no sense of action. The Terminator holding their standard in his power fist looks comical for all the wrong reasons.

 

(I'd go into how the Stormtalon's design (in general, not just in this painting) needs to be erased for existence, but that's another topic altogether.)

 

On the plus side, is this the image you were referring to?

 

THAT looks like someone who literally tore himself out of Hell to unleash ruin upon mortal men. The Chaos Space Marines fighting those Crimson Fists look like they're guys who dress up to play that part, but are hamstrung by a low budget.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Phoebus

[Biscuittzz]

That's the one! Amazing.

 

When I first started reading the lore and heard how the Cadians have to stand against the worst that the Eye of Terror spawns this was what immersed me into it.

 

When the newer work says something like "the Daemon was horrific to look upon" and the artwork that accompanies it is practically a cartoon, it's just meh.