Cover art not as good as it used to be?

[Taliesin]

Who is the artists for those two black and white pieces then? I remember a guy called Karl "something" who was very well regarded. Rozinsky..?

[Xisor]

Who is the artists for those two black and white pieces then? I remember a guy called Karl "something" who was very well regarded. Rozinsky..?

Kopinski, I think. He's got some tremendous stuff out there, I follow him on fb.

[Marshal Loss]

Paul Dainton has done some amazing pieces as well.

[b1soul]

All the main artists in CV were good

[HeritorA]

 

Who is the artists for those two black and white pieces then? I remember a guy called Karl "something" who was very well regarded. Rozinsky..?

Kopinski, I think. He's got some tremendous stuff out there, I follow him on fb.

 

Kopinski was brilliant illustrator for mainly Warhammer Fantasy Battles.  And he is truly blessed by the Gods.

 

Roomsky what do you mean 'None of them strike me as much lower in quality than, say, Path of Heaven' - you think PoH cover is bad? I thought it was the best cover from Roberts ever.

 

Phoebus 'the Leman Russ one is the one that turns me off the most. I think of it' - true, it is truly horrible, but in cases of Robaute Guilliman one and Magnus the Red they are not much better. In contrast incoming Lorgar and Horus Lupercal covers are totally different and deserve to be covers.

 

As for the point of 'Let me offer a qualified agreement. My qualifier is that the attention the lower quality of some covers is probably reinforced by a corresponding shift in Codices and other products. There used to be a lot more of this, ... ... but now there's a lot more of this.... and it's getting hard to ignore that the older illustrations carried over to these newer Codices are not just the ones that appeal to a more mature audience, but are also consistently of higher quality, as well.'

 - I think the reasons are price and auditory. There are much less mature audience now for W40K then schoolboys and let's call them young fellas in general. And to create shining cartoonish illustration for them is much cheaper then to create a mature one on the likes of Swanland/Wayland for us.

 

[Roomsky]

 

Roomsky what do you mean 'None of them strike me as much lower in quality than, say, Path of Heaven' - you think PoH cover is bad? I thought it was the best cover from Roberts ever.

 

 

Well, since you asked...

 

1. The colouring looks rushed and cartoonish compared to Neil's other works. Jaghatai looks like clay, and the Keeper of Secrets looks like a picture of a keeper of secrets instead of an actual creature.

 

2. For someone with Neil Roberts' skill, the angle of Jaghatai's sword is laughable. It's coming diagonally out of his fist.

 

3. If you want to discuss kiddyfying, the Keeper of Secrets is a fairly generic monster with superficially slaaneshi features rather than the hideously sexed-up abominations they're supposed to be.

 

4. The composition is fairly amateurish, its too obviously contrived to give the Khan a cool pose. 

 

Definitely one of his weakest. If you're wondering what some of my favorites are: Fallen Angels, Prospero Burns, Deliverance Lost, are among the many.

[Taliesin]

Somewhat related, I was disappointed with the lack of new artwork in Fall of Cadia campaign supplement that just came out.

 

Compared to the lavish Warzone books for instance, or the Age of Sigmar campaign books.

 

It has lots of old stuff reproduced with about 4 or 5 new works of art. Hopefully that will be much better in next month's second book.

[HeritorA]

 

 

Roomsky what do you mean 'None of them strike me as much lower in quality than, say, Path of Heaven' - you think PoH cover is bad? I thought it was the best cover from Roberts ever.

 

 

Well, since you asked...

 

1. The colouring looks rushed and cartoonish compared to Neil's other works. Jaghatai looks like clay, and the Keeper of Secrets looks like a picture of a keeper of secrets instead of an actual creature.

 

2. For someone with Neil Roberts' skill, the angle of Jaghatai's sword is laughable. It's coming diagonally out of his fist.

 

3. If you want to discuss kiddyfying, the Keeper of Secrets is a fairly generic monster with superficially slaaneshi features rather than the hideously sexed-up abominations they're supposed to be.

 

4. The composition is fairly amateurish, its too obviously contrived to give the Khan a cool pose. 

 

Definitely one of his weakest. If you're wondering what some of my favorites are: Fallen Angels, Prospero Burns, Deliverance Lost, are among the many.

 

On that I totally agree with you. Maybe I was just excited with the novel, so liked everything. As for his other covers, I do understand why you love 'Prospero Burns' and 'Deliverance Lost' - but 'Fallen Angels'? It's chopped, blocky and seems like something done by some amateur.

 

What do you think of 'Know no Fear'; 'Galaxy in Flames'; 'Mark of Calth'; 'Vengeful spirit'; 'Master of Mankind' covers?

[Roomsky]

In the case of Fallen Angels, I may be biased for that awesome Luther in the foreground. He looks so cool! The rest is certainly nothing exceptional.

 

As for the others:

 

Know no Fear- Messy, took me weeks to figure out what was going on. Some nice lighting, though.

 

Galaxy in Flames- The best of the original trilogy, but still not what I'd call great. Roberts was still firmly in the uncanny valley at this point, but I like the marine in the foreground.

 

Mark of Calth- I don't think its very interesting, but I like it otherwise. Captures the feel of futility in the underworld war, Ventanus looks good too.

 

Vengeful Spirit- close-to-great cover, those little eyes circling his head look ridiculous, though. I prefer the eye on his chest to be alone against the sea of black.

 

Master of Mankind- Something about the way The Emperor's armor is shaded really bugs me, can't put my finger on it though. I don't think conveying majesty is one of Neil's strong suits, I know the emperor is mighty and all, but something more sobering would have played better to his strengths, I think.

[HeritorA]

In the case of Fallen Angels, I may be biased for that awesome Luther in the foreground. He looks so cool! The rest is certainly nothing exceptional.

 

As for the others:

 

Know no Fear- Messy, took me weeks to figure out what was going on. Some nice lighting, though.

 

Galaxy in Flames- The best of the original trilogy, but still not what I'd call great. Roberts was still firmly in the uncanny valley at this point, but I like the marine in the foreground.

 

Mark of Calth- I don't think its very interesting, but I like it otherwise. Captures the feel of futility in the underworld war, Ventanus looks good too.

 

Vengeful Spirit- close-to-great cover, those little eyes circling his head look ridiculous, though. I prefer the eye on his chest to be alone against the sea of black.

 

Master of Mankind- Something about the way The Emperor's armor is shaded really bugs me, can't put my finger on it though. I don't think conveying majesty is one of Neil's strong suits, I know the emperor is mighty and all, but something more sobering would have played better to his strengths, I think.

True, agree on each point. But at the same time I prefer more artistic approach so - the tragic image of Ventanus on Mark of Calth speaks much more than MoM or Know no Fear. Vengeful spirit is one of the best  - but Horus face.... And probably that's first HH cover from Neil which hasn't cover 'event' in the book.

[Izlude]

 

In the case of Fallen Angels, I may be biased for that awesome Luther in the foreground. He looks so cool! The rest is certainly nothing exceptional.

 

As for the others:

 

Know no Fear- Messy, took me weeks to figure out what was going on. Some nice lighting, though.

 

Galaxy in Flames- The best of the original trilogy, but still not what I'd call great. Roberts was still firmly in the uncanny valley at this point, but I like the marine in the foreground.

 

Mark of Calth- I don't think its very interesting, but I like it otherwise. Captures the feel of futility in the underworld war, Ventanus looks good too.

 

Vengeful Spirit- close-to-great cover, those little eyes circling his head look ridiculous, though. I prefer the eye on his chest to be alone against the sea of black.

 

Master of Mankind- Something about the way The Emperor's armor is shaded really bugs me, can't put my finger on it though. I don't think conveying majesty is one of Neil's strong suits, I know the emperor is mighty and all, but something more sobering would have played better to his strengths, I think.

True, agree on each point. But at the same time I prefer more artistic approach so - the tragic image of Ventanus on Mark of Calth speaks much more than MoM or Know no Fear. Vengeful spirit is one of the best  - but Horus face.... And probably that's first HH cover from Neil which hasn't cover 'event' in the book.

 

In general I really like NR's art alot. KNF is actually my favorite (biased obviously) and have a large poster hanging in my office. I think Abnett said it best in his afterword...Guilliman in space without a helmet punching a WB's head off. Betrayer has to be my second favorite, Angron and Lorgar kicking ass and taking names later followed by PoD. 

I think NR really captured both Dorn and Alpharius really trying to tear each other apart. Also the cool battle in the background is awesome....although didn't those two actually fight in some dark storage room? Honorable mentions goes to Shadows of Treachery for the IF (Polux?) punching a IW in the head with his powerfist which is always good times. In general I enjoy more of the action scenes rather than the just standing there looking all badass like MoM, Pharos, etc. 

 

 

I think the art for the Primarch series is pretty bad...Russ is the worse and Guillman isnt that great. Purtie looks okay. The art for the beast arises is okay as well, nothing special. I think the beheading was odd with the IF holding a thunder hammer (?) with his powerfist...seems redundant. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by Izlude

[bluntblade]

I figured PoH's Keeper of Secrets was dictated more by how Wraight wrote it. M-R seems to be more murderlust than actual lust.

[HeritorA]

 

 

In the case of Fallen Angels, I may be biased for that awesome Luther in the foreground. He looks so cool! The rest is certainly nothing exceptional.

 

As for the others:

 

Know no Fear- Messy, took me weeks to figure out what was going on. Some nice lighting, though.

 

Galaxy in Flames- The best of the original trilogy, but still not what I'd call great. Roberts was still firmly in the uncanny valley at this point, but I like the marine in the foreground.

 

Mark of Calth- I don't think its very interesting, but I like it otherwise. Captures the feel of futility in the underworld war, Ventanus looks good too.

 

Vengeful Spirit- close-to-great cover, those little eyes circling his head look ridiculous, though. I prefer the eye on his chest to be alone against the sea of black.

 

Master of Mankind- Something about the way The Emperor's armor is shaded really bugs me, can't put my finger on it though. I don't think conveying majesty is one of Neil's strong suits, I know the emperor is mighty and all, but something more sobering would have played better to his strengths, I think.

True, agree on each point. But at the same time I prefer more artistic approach so - the tragic image of Ventanus on Mark of Calth speaks much more than MoM or Know no Fear. Vengeful spirit is one of the best  - but Horus face.... And probably that's first HH cover from Neil which hasn't cover 'event' in the book.

 

In general I really like NR's art alot. KNF is actually my favorite (biased obviously) and have a large poster hanging in my office. I think Abnett said it best in his afterword...Guilliman in space without a helmet punching a WB's head off. Betrayer has to be my second favorite, Angron and Lorgar kicking ass and taking names later followed by PoD. 

I think NR really captured both Dorn and Alpharius really trying to tear each other apart. Also the cool battle in the background is awesome....although didn't those two actually fight in some dark storage room? Honorable mentions goes to Shadows of Treachery for the IF (Polux?) punching a IW in the head with his powerfist which is always good times. In general I enjoy more of the action scenes rather than the just standing there looking all badass like MoM, Pharos, etc. 

 

 

I think the art for the Primarch series is pretty bad...Russ is the worse and Guillman isnt that great. Purtie looks okay. The art for the beast arises is okay as well, nothing special. I think the beheading was odd with the IF holding a thunder hammer (?) with his powerfist...seems redundant. 

 

Primarchs covers except for the Lorgar one are all bad, sadly - but they are not done by Robets as far I know it. 

 

'I think NR really captured both Dorn and Alpharius really trying to tear each other apart. Also the cool battle in the background is awesome....although didn't those two actually fight in some dark storage room?' - exactly, in the armoured and sensor blank vault. 

 

 

 

I figured PoH's Keeper of Secrets was dictated more by how Wraight wrote it. M-R seems to be more murderlust than actual lust.

 

It was not a standard Keeper of Secrets from W40K. By that period it was young and had a form it get by half from it's 'host' body. 

[DukeLeto69]

Another live example... Compare the cover art for Slaughter at Giant's Coffin compared to those beautiful Jon Sullivan covers for the initial run of SMB novels!

 

The irony is that SMB is unashamed bolter porn for the most part but the covers speak of something better (yes there are exceptions such as Chris Wraight's entries)

[HeritorA]

Another live example... Compare the cover art for Slaughter at Giant's Coffin compared to those beautiful Jon Sullivan covers for the initial run of SMB novels!

 

The irony is that SMB is unashamed bolter porn for the most part but the covers speak of something better (yes there are exceptions such as Chris Wraight's entries)

exactly. SMB is a very poor books with several awesome exceptions - mostly by Chris Wraight. And this November by Farrer and his 'Urdesh' (Farrer always wrote amazing stuff - just read 'After Deshea' and 'Heritor Asphodel' machines novellas duology.  

[DukeLeto69]

 

Another live example... Compare the cover art for Slaughter at Giant's Coffin compared to those beautiful Jon Sullivan covers for the initial run of SMB novels!

The irony is that SMB is unashamed bolter porn for the most part but the covers speak of something better (yes there are exceptions such as Chris Wraight's entries)

 

exactly. SMB is a very poor books with several awesome exceptions - mostly by Chris Wraight. And this November by Farrer and his 'Urdesh' (Farrer always wrote amazing stuff - just read 'After Deshea' and 'Heritor Asphodel' machines novellas duology.

Farrer and Urdesh = very exciting

[HeritorA]

 

 

Another live example... Compare the cover art for Slaughter at Giant's Coffin compared to those beautiful Jon Sullivan covers for the initial run of SMB novels!

The irony is that SMB is unashamed bolter porn for the most part but the covers speak of something better (yes there are exceptions such as Chris Wraight's entries)

exactly. SMB is a very poor books with several awesome exceptions - mostly by Chris Wraight. And this November by Farrer and his 'Urdesh' (Farrer always wrote amazing stuff - just read 'After Deshea' and 'Heritor Asphodel' machines novellas duology.

Farrer and Urdesh = very exciting

 

True. Farrer wrote not a lot for BL. But every piece he did produced was amazing. So can't wait for 'Urdesh'. I want it even more than 'Warmaster'

[DarkChaplain]

Didn't Farrer do Vorax? I wasn't a fan of that. It seemed to be one of the more product-placey stories for Horus Heresy.

[HeritorA]

Didn't Farrer do Vorax? I wasn't a fan of that. It seemed to be one of the more product-placey stories for Horus Heresy.

Yeah he did - but that's not even a novella - but simple short.

[DarkChaplain]

The length is irrelevant to your statement. "[E]very piece he did produced was amazing", remember?

[HeritorA]

The length is irrelevant to your statement. "[E]very piece he did produced was amazing", remember?

Ok - point 1 tis short and good (not amazing). His novellas are amazing and 'After Deshea' short

[Xisor]

Also: "Seven Views..." & "The Masters, Bidding" which I count amongst my favourite short stories.

 

(Not limited to BL.)

[HeritorA]

Also: "Seven Views..." & "The Masters, Bidding" which I count amongst my favourite short stories.

 

(Not limited to BL.)

Ahhh 'The Masters, Bidding" - such a lovely piece where ending is amusing and illuminating. It provided a very interesting opinion on certain CSM factions by other CSM factions and is something that i'd always wondered about (till Fabius: Primogenitor has arrived). The prize was won but not by whom I thought it would be won or the one I was hoping would get it. What the person intends to do with it is just something we'll have to imagine I suppose.

[Pariah32]

Some of the new special editions are definitely a little cartoonish ( I'm looking at your Primogenitor). However the limited edition cover of David's new Warlord looks incredible!

 

The Beast arises series covers were fantastic they were consistently interesting however I really disliked the white back ground though at the same time the contrast of the white probably really helped the covers.

 

Vengeful Spirit by Neil Roberts is easily my favourite HH cover however, I do also find some of Neil's other covers to be way off for me.

 

I think what I'm saying is that all covers either work for you or they don't its such a subjective thing.

 

For me Raymond Swanland  just hits the mark every time his Macharian crusade covers were sublime (I even got a print of Fist of Demetrius signed by him, it so shiny ).

[HeritorA]

Some of the new special editions are definitely a little cartoonish ( I'm looking at your Primogenitor). However the limited edition cover of David's new Warlord looks incredible!

 

The Beast arises series covers were fantastic they were consistently interesting however I really disliked the white back ground though at the same time the contrast of the white probably really helped the covers.

 

Vengeful Spirit by Neil Roberts is easily my favourite HH cover however, I do also find some of Neil's other covers to be way off for me.

 

I think what I'm saying is that all covers either work for you or they don't its such a subjective thing.

 

For me Raymond Swanland  just hits the mark every time his Macharian crusade covers were sublime (I even got a print of Fist of Demetrius signed by him, it so shiny ).

'a little cartoonish ( I'm looking at your Primogenitor); However the limited edition cover of David's new Warlord looks incredible!'

 

- ahem, are you sure? Fabius is a dark anime cover, warlord - teenager anime cover, lol.

 

 

'Vengeful Spirit by Neil Roberts is easily my favourite HH cover however, I do also find some of Neil's other covers to be way off for me.'

 

- one of the best ones for sure. And first not to contain the scene from the cover in the novel.

 

'For me Raymond Swanland  just hits the mark every time his Macharian crusade covers were sublime (I even got a print of Fist of Demetrius signed by him, it so shiny ).'

-totally and absolutely agree