Caillum Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Just came across this while discussing "Rewards of Treason" units... In "Coils of the Hydra", one of the restrictions is this: "Infantry squads that do not have either a Dedicated Transport or the ability to Infiltrate or Deep Strike may not be chosen as part of this force." Pretty simple for the most part: if you don't take a unit AND a Dedicated Transport, then they must have the ability to Infiltrate or Deep Strike. Assault Marines, for instance, have the ability to Deep Strike, but they don't have to do so. The ability to Infiltrate can also be granted by Mutable Tactics, and either can be granted by Warlord Traits, giving you some options to avoid buying lots of Dedicated Transports. Now, Withershadow just asked this question: does a transport with the Deep Strike special rule help meet the requirements of this RoW, provided the Infantry squad starts the game embarked on it? Looking at it, I'm inclined to think it does. The Infantry squad arrives from Deep Strike, it just so happens to so via a transport. There's a precedent for this sort of thing, with regards to Interceptor, as you can use Interceptor to shoot at a unit that has just arrived from Deep Strike via a transport. The following units would work for this prerequisite: - Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod, - Kharybdis Assault Claw, - Storm Eagle Assault Gunship, - Caestus Assault Ram - Darkwing Pattern Storm Eagle Gunship, - Thunderhawk Gunship, - Thunderhawk Transporter, - Sokar Pattern Stormbird. Anyone have any reason this shouldn't fly? Not looking to break the game here, just helping a restrictive Rite of War to be a little more flexible. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I had this discussion years ago when the rules for CotH and AL were first published. My gaming group decided not to allow it, since the Deep Striking flyer / pod / whatever is neither the infantry units dedicated transport, nor does it grant the DS USR to the unit it transports. The vehicle is merely deep striking itself, and taking a unit along for the ride. And thus I never got to use my Storm Eagle this way ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4622146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I'd say no, but if FW said yes I wouldn't complain Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4622168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Having access to deepstrike indirectly through a transport does not grant you deepstrike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4622966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 Fair call people. It wasn't a line of thinking I'd considered before, that's all. For what it's worth, I wasn't trying to say it gave the squad the Deep Strike special rule, rather that it gave them "the ability to Deep Strike". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4622981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I guess maybe not because by the time you're deploying them in there, the game has already begun, and you're past the "choose your force" portion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4624072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3nn3rs Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Presumably you'd use the same line of argument to prevent an infantry unit from meeting the 'ability to infiltrate/ deepstrike' limitation by using Dynat's warlord trait? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4624802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Pretty much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4625001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Warlord traits happen before the game starts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4625086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 And after army selection... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4627894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Mutable Tactics are picked when you roll for your Warlord Trait though? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4627953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 And after army selection... Eh, sorta, everything happens in a vague "pre-game" phase that is not clearly delineated or outlined. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4628387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 So...The only way to take Alpharius (Or any other HQ) in a Coils army is to use the Infiltrate mutable tactic, seeing as they doesn't have it base and can't take a DT? :/ Or is it okay because they're not an 'Infantry Squad'? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4628583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3nn3rs Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 It doesn't work on Alpharius as he doesn't have the legion astartes rule... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4628665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 It doesn't work on Alpharius as he doesn't have the legion astartes rule... Right, so you can't take Alpharius at all, seeing as he can never Deep Strike, Infiltrate, or use a DT? Using One of Many isn't any of those so I don't think that'd get past the problem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4628869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I mean, you use his rule that he hides in a unit and problem solved, no? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4628879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 That's what I thought, but Coils specifically prohibits you from taking an Infantry unit at all withoit one of those 3 things. The RoW cuts you off from putting those units without them in your list list from the get-go. Perhaps I am just mighty confused, but it seems a tad odd to me. Also, HQs still would have to be Infiltrated seeing as they can't take a DT or Deep Strike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4628881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I can't quite fathom why this discussion pops up every couple months, but alas. The RoW specifically states that INFANTRY SQUADS must have the ability to Deep Strike (by themselves, not by some other FOC choice) or take a dedicated transport. An Independent Character is not an infantry squad. An thus your HQ choice can be attached a unit and ride with them in their DT. Oh, got no more space in the Rhinos your Tacs are riding in ? Well, then find another way. CotH can be tricky to make it work and it's also quite specific. That's the main reason I almost never play it. AL excels at making the more generic rites even better, that's why I most often go for LRC, Chosen Duty, PotL or Sacrifical Offering. If and when I run CotH I most often use the reserve shenangians setup to the fullest: Skorr joining a unit of Destroyers in their dedicated LR Proteus with Augury Web, for a total of -3 to enemy reserve rolls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4628908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Thank you Unknown Legionnaire, I figured the Infantry Squad part played into it. Sorry if I annoyed you a bit there. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4628913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 You're very welcome. Let's face it, Forge World made a great game with the HH series, but sometimes the wording in their rules is ... not the most consistent. Still, they're doing a better job at it than GW with their monthly updates and codex releases and soon-to-be Age of the Emperor game ... xD Also, I'm a person all for spending more time at the gaming table with friends and a chill mug of beer as opposed to theory-hammering and interpreting text passages. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4628916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I can't quite fathom why this discussion pops up every couple months, but alas. The RoW specifically states that INFANTRY SQUADS must have the ability to Deep Strike (by themselves, not by some other FOC choice) or take a dedicated transport. An Independent Character is not an infantry squad. An thus your HQ choice can be attached a unit and ride with them in their DT. While I agree that this is probably the intention of the writers, the problem is that infantry squad is never defined. So we do not know whether an independent character (or any other one model unit of the infantry type) is or is not an infantry squad. It definitely is an infantry unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4632767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Well if we're going to be that pedantic about it, then nothing is an infantry squad and we can take whatever we want. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4633456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Yea I'm currently assuming that my quad launcher battery is not an 'Infantry Squad' ...they are a Artillery Squadron...with Infantry type... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4633478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Well if we're going to be that pedantic about it, then nothing is an infantry squad and we can take whatever we want. That is the logical conclusion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329798-coils-of-the-hydra-deep-strike-prerequisites/#findComment-4633779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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