Miru Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Brothers, with the upcoming changes in fluff and rules (SW becoming a dying chapter, Abbadon (presumably) about to bring 40k's EndTimes) I have been thinking and preparing a plan B for my Vlka. Owening the B@C and BoP Boxes I do have a solid stock of 30k Marines. My playgroup also wouldn't mind if ice-blue Mark VII would join grey Makr III and IV. Our Playgroup consists of two traitor legions one traitor legion (mostly Abbadon's black dudes), two loyalists (Wolves and Fallen Dark Angels) and an Eldar player. Now I wonder... 30k is renowned for being very balanced, thus an enjoyable game. But, afaik, 30k is only about the 18 Legions. 1.) The Eldar did exist at the Heresy times (though, I don't know whether they fought)... is ist possible that the eldar might get rules fpr 30k, thus, our buddy could also play them in 30k with us? 2.) If the'd get rules... Is there any chance they would not destroy the current 30k balancing? I don't wont to lie... I just played Eldar once, yeet. In a Kill Team. And it was so rediculous, that it wasn't even fun. Thanks for your evaluation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrowmaster Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 While Eldar were around during the Heresy, Forge World won't be making rules for them, they're focusing on humanity. A quick google search might yield you some worthwhile results, I recall hearing that someone in the community had published 30k Eldar rules but I could be mistaken. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4622350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzyeye01 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 While alot of the races that appear within 40k aren't actually around (Such as the tyranids and the necrons), races such as the orks and the eldar do show up however as far as I know, there is little to no differences between them and their 40k counterparts. However, you can easily use a counts as in this case as I've seen across youtube like with MiniwarGaming where they put the Sons of Horus against the tyranids and making it be a recreation of Murder. 30k is an expansion after all and you can still field Legions against say the Eldar and so on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4622360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miru Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Which also means that the Eldar would remain as broken as they are right now. Allow me one follow up question: Are the Legions, since they are technological and martialy more andvanced then their brothers 10k Years later, more capable to deal with them? Say, due to better weapons and wargear? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4622367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 The way Xenos armies are selected would cut down on the cheese. Wraithknights being LoW and subject to the selection rules would help. If this is an excercise in narrative gameplay, self limitation and house rule is key. If this is some way to try and find a leg up on your opponent it's doomed to failure. Too often these topics are more about favoring one side over the other. So don't fall into that trap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4622371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Yeah sticking to the Age of Darkness FoC helps but ultimately the Eldar are still Eldar... Generally speaking 30k lists tend to suffer against 40k too unless using specific builds (And therefore getting into Paper/Rock/Scissors).Technically Eldar should be a bit different but so far in 30k they dont appear to have done that with their appearances. But limiting Aspect Warriors and Wraiths makes sense as both of these rise in prominence later on. Perhaps using some Dark Eldar units as the Craftworlds are arguably closer to their dark kin at this point? Whilst most of the Special Characters are around id imagine they are a lot less badass in their rookie days.Hope that helps? :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4622382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marine7312000 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I know there's a fan-based conversion that is being worked on by King Fluff from Battelbunnies http://battlebunnies.blogspot.co.uk/?m=1 but I can't seem to find any recent updates. Also check out his FB album https://www.facebook.com/212712112216397/photos/?tab=album&album_id=372016609619279 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4622385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miru Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 The way Xenos armies are selected would cut down on the cheese. Wraithknights being LoW and subject to the selection rules would help. If this is an excercise in narrative gameplay, self limitation and house rule is key. If this is some way to try and find a leg up on your opponent it's doomed to failure. Too often these topics are more about favoring one side over the other. So don't fall into that trap. I actually do not seek to become more powerfull than the eldar, I rather would like a balanced gameplay. AFAIK 30k is famous for it (which is a no brainer, given they are all marines). I would hate to introduce a race that is grossly overpowered and thus ruin the game Thank you. My thirst for knowledge is quenced :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4622386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 necrons Necrons are. Trazyn even has an army of Horus Heresy era Ultramarines in his collection^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4622393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Eldar will crush anything, they have access to too many cheap D weapons. We have tried to implement a conversion and it failed horribly. Orks would probably work as a strait port, but they would probably get murdered by volkites. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4622445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Eldar would probably be fine, if you moved Jetbikes to Fast Attack and dropped Anvil of Vaul from the Army list. Or give Jetbikes the Support Squad rule. Which is probably actually better over all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4622474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I am absolutely sure that FW will do the Crusade.....eventually. It would be as popular as the Heresy, if not more so. That'll obviously cover xenos too. I suspect that "eventually" may be many years in the future though. Until then, I think using xenos is no problem for friendly games. Sticking to the AOD FOC will solve a lot of problems quickly and anything else can be played out and house-ruled. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4622674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trokair Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Eldar can work, though the Eldar player must select a list with 30k in mind. While I have not really gotten in to 30k proper with my own army (though working on it) I have plaid a few games with my elder (using a CAD/CAD with slight modification*) against several 30k armies in the 1500p to 2000p range. No formations or such, and a bit of sportsmanship go a long way. Large amount of ranged AP3 is murder, as is D spam, but a ‘mixed’ list with a little of everything is ok. *My army is centered around Wraithguard/blades and Wraithlords so for several games I played with 6th ed codex so that I could take Guard/Blade as troop and the guns weren’t D (still good but not stupid good). I do have a wraithknight, but only used him once with 6th ed codex and he died rather quick. Cough - Iron Havocs - Cough. I do play Necrons and while I have not played against 30k armies with them I reckon that as long as you stick to a CAD and no Formations it should work out ok. Orks should be fine as is. I think the golden rule is discuses it with your opponent first, play a few games and if one sided constantly dominates discuss and amend unit selection. Bring back the old 0-1 restriction on problem units and 1+ on basic troop for example. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4622793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col.hertford Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 FW will not be including alien races in the heresy under the current plan. The reason is humanity had basically finished the great crusade and they are just mopping up now. Orks and Eldar have been mostly smashed. Orks are still a local threat, hence the muster at calth, but they are not a universal threat. Eldar are worried about survival. In the words of Alan bligh, they are running for cover while the imperium tears itself apart. On the subject of the great crusade, they may consider this later, but it's not a thing yet. If you field Eldar, I would suggest corsairs as I would see FW choosing a half way house between dE and Eldar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4622866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 No formations use the AOD version of Str D weapons. Must abide by AOD force organization and go looking to play a friendly game and you are fine. I've played games against tau, eldar, necrons, and even tyranid the loss of formation buffs and planning to play a more narrative game have made all but one fun for me (bug player went WAAC) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4622943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supe robot gangster #1 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 necrons Necrons are. Trazyn even has an army of Horus Heresy era Ultramarines in his collection^^ If memory serves me correctly isn't there a piece of fluff in one of the black books about one of the pre-primarch legions fighting what is vaguely necrons? (My brain is saying salamanders but I could be wrong). I believe it's also strongly hinted at that ferrus fought some form of necron construct, which resulted in his silver necrodermis hands Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4623088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Santar Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Xenos_in_30kConsider this. It was very much a WIP when it was left and, sadly, is unlikely to ever be 'finished', but what they have so far isn't bad if you're willing to tweak some things yourselves. I've tried its Necron rules out before and found them fairly balanced, though my army was never overly-competitive anyway. Still, it's an idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4623121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomMarine Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 As a general rule of thumb my group do AOD force org with no formations. The only really game breaking xenos in 30k are game breaking in 40k as well. Xenos present during 30k are eldar all 4 flavours,orks and necrons. Possibly nids aswell but in very small numbers (speculation due to fenris kraken and catachan devils being nid creatures) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4623152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col.hertford Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I would say any 40k Xenos could be used. Your just fighting an old extinguished enemy. For all we know, tau could have been around and devolved during a later battle of the GC with the heresy starting and preventing the coup de grace. You just need to balance the forces and tone down a few rules. Maybe increase maximum squad size. The other option is to increase the points in the 30k army (e.g. 2000 Eldar, 2500 point Iron Warriors). The old Warhammer seige rules even had rules for combining WFB armies into 40k. The sky is the limit, just agree with your opponent first. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4623163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supe robot gangster #1 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I've played against a guy using a tau list to represent an advanced human society encountered during the crusade. I believe he used gates of Antares minis to represent them. There really isn't any list that can't at least represent some kind of enemy encountered by the crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4623175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazryonh Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Xenos_in_30k Consider this. It was very much a WIP when it was left and, sadly, is unlikely to ever be 'finished', but what they have so far isn't bad if you're willing to tweak some things yourselves. I've tried its Necron rules out before and found them fairly balanced, though my army was never overly-competitive anyway. Still, it's an idea. I think FW is missing a major opportunity here. I'm sure some fans want to play scenarios set in the Great Crusade when there was a lot of legions-against-Xenos action. The fanmade rules in the link go some way toward addressing that, but I would still like to see official FW releases. The Orks were major players back then, and allowing rules that let you field endless tides of Boyz or even super Warbosses like the Warlord of Ullanor (or even the Primorks of the Beast Arises novel series) would be a great way to bring 30k flavour to other 40k species, minus ones that weren't yet technologically advanced like the Tau. Alternate legion rules representing their Great Crusade incarnations, or even how they made war before finding their Primarchs, would be good to see too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4628837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 It can be fun playing against xenos with a legion. A lot of good points have been made how to go about it. It's important to discuss with your opponent what you both want from the game to make sure you both have an enjoyable experience. I've played against necrons, orks and Tau. Orks by far was the most fun. Legions can do well but what I found was I like to play at 2500 points or more. I used to play a lot versus 40k armies but now I mostly play against other 30k armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4628926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatsquirre1 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 It's important to discuss with your opponent what you both want from the game to make sure you both have an enjoyable experience. This. I played 'crons with Mechanicum and had a blast because my opponent was cool with not bringing formations and playing by AoD scoring rules. One of the best games I've had in a while, that came down to the last turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4629494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 My games vs necrons and Orks were both super brutal... both totally epic games. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4629813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 We have had plenty of 30k/40k tournaments with our gaming organization and xenos haven't been a problem. Of course those have been somewhat narrative and no one has brought deaths stars or game breaking lists. Limiting army building to a AoD or other FOCs found in HH books has been good way to balance lists and so has been the threat for using super cheesy lists for warming up the sauna. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329804-the-xenos-and-the-heresy-aka-alien-races-in-30k/#findComment-4630863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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