Guest Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I know I am not a regular visitor to this sub-forum. We know some of the Loyalist ones will return. I am not trying to troll or provoke I am curious to what you guys think as Blood Angels fans. But I am curious what is the circumstances of Sanguinius' return being OK? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgnarrTyr Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I honestly cannot think of a circumstance where it would be okay. Personally it would upset me unless they found a mind blowing amazing masterful means of resurrecting him. He willingly gave his life in sacrifice to give the Emperor a chance. He made the sacrifice and knew he was going to die when he went to Horus. You cannot cheapen that if they find a means to return him it has to be epic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 As a "greater daemon" to the Emperor. Basically a spiritual/warp return as opposed to a physical one. A sort of legion of the Damned thing, where loyal dead Blood Angels/successors fight with him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 The "it would cheapen his sacrifice" argument is dumb to me. If someone had legally died trying to save you, but they managed to resuscitate him, would his sacrifice mean less to you? Anyways, I see it as a "second coming" kind of thing, where he returns spiritually with the Emperor. The Emperor being a warp god and all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServoBadger Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I honestly cannot think of a circumstance where it would be okay. Personally it would upset me unless they found a mind blowing amazing masterful means of resurrecting him. He willingly gave his life in sacrifice to give the Emperor a chance. He made the sacrifice and knew he was going to die when he went to Horus. You cannot cheapen that if they find a means to return him it has to be epic. While I do agree with you and personally hope he stays dead... I think you hit the nail on the head when you said Sanguinius "knew he was going to die". You got me thinking about how, in Angel's Blade, the Sanguinor's intervention wasn't foreseen by Xorphas. Imagine this. Sanguinius foresaw his death, and he went to face Horus anyway. And true to his vision, Horus slew him. And in the instant before death took his physical body, something Sanguinius had NOT foreseen happened - the Emperor caught his spirit. Now, this would need to be written as a truly epic piece of fluff but if it was done right.... maybe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I agree that the "cheapen his sacrifice" is a dumb argument. Also even if he gets resurrected it doesn't automatically mean he knew about it beforehand. Not even the Emperor knows everything that happens in the future. And well even if he knew he gets resurrected eventually it doesn't automatically mean he knew when and what he all would have missed by then. The imperium is far from what it was supposed to be since he was arround and his own legion had seen far better times as well.So you see a lot of it depends on how it's done, not if it's done.That being said I'd prefer him returning in some form of reincarnation. Probably in the body of the Sanguinor. Not by person but his essence and possibly some of his personality and memories. Like a merge of both souls or something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 As a "greater daemon" to the Emperor. Basically a spiritual/warp return as opposed to a physical one. A sort of legion of the Damned thing, where loyal dead Blood Angels/successors fight with him. This has the added bonus of mystery, there is no reason to believe for certain that such a creature is in any way made of a dead primarch. It could be entirely produced by the belief of Imperials in Sang as a savior, and therefore take his form, without actually having anything to do with the original Sang. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Uveron Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 That being said I'd prefer him returning in some form of reincarnation. Probably in the body of the Sanguinor. Not by person but his essence and possibly some of his personality and memories. Like a merge of both souls or something. I kinda think he has returned already.... as the Sanguinor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 He's a vampire (kinda) so he can come back to life without it being too outrageous. There are already some big hints from recent lore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Lol if you say so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 First and foremost it is a fantasy sci-fi setting, so you're only limited by your imagination. It *could* happen? But I would hope it was properly fitting with a solid story backing it up. Actually same goes for any primarch they bring back, whether "killed" in the setting or not? That being said I'd prefer him returning in some form of reincarnation. Probably in the body of the Sanguinor. Not by person but his essence and possibly some of his personality and memories. Like a merge of both souls or something. I kinda think he has returned already.... as the Sanguinor. More and more I believe the Sanguinor is some form of Azkaellon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 First and foremost it is a fantasy sci-fi setting, so you're only limited by your imagination. It *could* happen? But I would hope it was properly fitting with a solid story backing it up. Actually same goes for any primarch they bring back, whether "killed" in the setting or not? That being said I'd prefer him returning in some form of reincarnation. Probably in the body of the Sanguinor. Not by person but his essence and possibly some of his personality and memories. Like a merge of both souls or something. I kinda think he has returned already.... as the Sanguinor. More and more I believe the Sanguinor is some form of Azkaellon. Same. Or rather a , by some ritual psychic empowered, successor of him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Lol if you say so. There's two ways to look at a potential return. It might make his sacrifice less momentus (although it still had consequences to the Imperium and BA felt 10k years later besides just being sad) or you might look at it as a potential return for one of the greatest characters and heroes, and an opportunity for a truly stunning model (just look at Celestine for what could potentially be done). From what was personally hinted to me, GW are potentially looking to bring back as many of the Primarchs as possible. Of course we don't know how far they'll go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I used to have a theory that the real cause of the Black Rage was Sanguinius' spirit attempting to possess people, hence why some of them start to think they're Sanguinius. Which basically means that the Blood Angels don't need a returned Primarch because we already have the second coming of Sanguinius in Mephiston. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I used to have a theory that the real cause of the Black Rage was Sanguinius' spirit attempting to possess people, hence why some of them start to think they're Sanguinius. Which basically means that the Blood Angels don't need a returned Primarch because we already have the second coming of Sanguinius in Mephiston. Now that's a new one. But it'd be a pretty interesting concept...Mephiston would need a huge buff tho but i'd be fine with that since i like him anyway. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Sanguinius being born as a warp entity is not far fetched at all. Though it isn't touched on a lot. The Imperial Creed places Sanguinius as a step below the Emperor and that's a galaxy spanning lot of people all praying to Sanguinius, even as the second in command. Consider Slannesh was born of the Eldar empire. Personally I believe he will come back as a 'greater daemon' of the Emperor if they decide to bring him back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Abaddon will make it to Terra and when he is about to strike the Emperor down the Sanguinor will burst into the throne room from the Webway gate inside, surrounded by the aura/ remaining spirit of Sanguinius. All game for that? Hell yeah! Oh and Kha'bhanda will be there, in tatters again ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4626986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Hey, Sanguinius needs something's skin to wear as a cape. Leopard skin just don't cut it when you're the avenging avatar of the Angel. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4627017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Sanguinius return...not in the 30k spirit. I means, in regard of the Black Rage, it is important, that his "resurection", should it happen that way, must be a sorrowfull one. If the 30k Blood Angels and Sanguinius bores humanity hopes for a brighter future, the 40k Blood Angels are Darker and should stay that way. --------------------------------------------------------------- How i see a 40k "Sanguinius" : A desilusioned divine being, akin to a Fallen Angel. As Lemartes, he would be one step in the past and one step in the present. While the 30k Sanguinius was able to contain the Flaw within himself, the 40k Sanguinius would give it free reins. Grieving the lost glory of the Great Crusade, his present self would only be driven by the need for vengeance, making him a true Vengefull Angel. Were the 30k Sanguinius was good-spirited, the 40k incarnation would be darker, in some way, he would end looking closer to his other lost brother, Konrad Kurze, both in spirit and appearance. -------------------------------------------------------------- The Advantage of my point of view is that, even after the reincarnation of Sanguinius, the Blood Angels would still suffer from the Flaws, though it would express itself differently, more in the way of Lemartes (One step in, and one step out), or in the way of Mephiston (Desilutioned/half dead/unable to see the beauty of/in life). This way, the Death Company would continue to exist as a Curse. I think that the Black Rage element is key when defining the 40k Blood Angels from the 30k appearance. It would reflect the Flesh Tearer quote "We were Angels no more". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4627108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I agree it wouldn't cheapen his sacrifice because he wasn't likely knowledgeable about any sort of return. But to me it does sort of cheapen the overall story. Or any story really, if you kill off a key player, have the nads to stick with that idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4627153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I think we can agree on that no matter how he comes back, if he does, the twin-curse will stay. They can't take it away from 40k BA without making them generic red Marines. That would be like taking Space Wolves their wolfiness (as much as people joke about it). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4627164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkaniss Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I think we can agree on that no matter how he comes back, if he does, the twin-curse will stay. They can't take it away from 40k BA without making them generic red Marines. That would be like taking Space Wolves their wolfiness (as much as people joke about it). I agree, if indeed he does return it won't be as a flesh and blood Primarch - or at least the same flesh and blood! Having access to Sanguinius again for genetic material would in theory stop the gene seed issues and there goes most of the unique BA traits :P I have to add that I very much doubt they'll bring him back though and I am at peace with that. Let other people rejoice in the return of their Primarch if feasible, those that are confirmed dead should probably stay that way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4627175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I agree it wouldn't cheapen his sacrifice because he wasn't likely knowledgeable about any sort of return. But to me it does sort of cheapen the overall story. Or any story really, if you kill off a key player, have the nads to stick with that idea. As DC and Marvel comic reader I'd agree on that....if it was part of a story we as consumer actively experienced instead of just "some dead of some important dude way back in the past". Because that's what it basically is/was before the Horus Heresy books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4627177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I like the idea of him returning as a vengeful, darker version of his past self. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4627245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughn Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Legion of the Damned Sanguinius The spirit of the noble primarch twisted by rage and vengeance, but bound by undying duty. Complete with death company-esque markings and fire Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329961-under-what-circumstances-the-angel-returns/#findComment-4627269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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