Hypothetical Combined Army, Imperatives or Canticles?

[Tiger9gamer]

So, after a discussion on dakka where someone called us spoiled because we want an army that has both Canticles and Data-imperitives, It got me thinking.

 

If we could only have one, which one would should we keep?

 

I think I would have liked to keep data-imperatives for both cult and Skitarii if they combined, since my rolling is crappy enough where I need almost guaranteed hits to actually hurt stuff in a game. I still get a crap ton of ones to hit, but with data-imperatives it lessens the blow enough so that it helps my game play. Plus, let's be honest, graviton destroyers with BS 5+ would be awesome. and punchy bots with WS 6 would be just as cool. 

[TempestBlade]

Why not be greedy. So rework the canticles to include 1 that boosts BS and 1 that boosts WS. I'm just disappointed that the combined Grand Convocation is kindof crap. IWND is great and all but how many vehicles are in most lists? Cult doesn't have any. Maybe if they had some transports it would be different. I would have been happy if canticles were default and if you bring max units then you get IWND. compared to the War convo and the conclave aquistitorius the grand convo is pretty lame in smaller (1500-1850 points) games.

[Shinespider]

Canticles for the whole army. "Skitarii" units specifically get a simplified version of imperatives where they choose between +1BS/-1WS or +1WS/-1BS at the start of every turn, on top of canticles. 

[Battybattybats]

We already have 1 per turn for most games, the easiest balancing act is that if all units get them then you can only use one per turn. Then we just get more choice.

[Tyriks]

Canticles have more flexibility and utility, so I'd choose them. Doctrinas are awesome but there's not a lot of thought going into their usage, most of the time. And as said above it'd be easy to include a canticles to simulate the doctrinas, but you couldn't do the opposite.

 

Honestly though if we don't get new units it's not greedy to ask for both. Our lists are restricted by the very fact we don't have options, and our strongest lists are extremely limited, so we need benefits to counteract the fact that 3/4 games with AdMech wind up with almost the same list, meaning it's easy to counter us.

[Magos Takatus]

I haven't actually played any games so my opinion is only theoretical but currently the Adeptus Mechanicus faction tends to head towards a ranged army with some opportunity for assault units. Canticles have more assault boosting buffs rather than only one shooting increase. With lower ballistic skills than Skitarii units The Kastellans and Kataphrons would probably be more effective unit Doctrina Imperatives? It seems the Canticles have more rounded effects with stealth boosts and leadership bolstering but Doctrina Imperatives just squeeze more effectiveness out of a shooting phase.

[DanPesci]

I haven't actually played any games so my opinion is only theoretical but currently the Adeptus Mechanicus faction tends to head towards a ranged army with some opportunity for assault units. Canticles have more assault boosting buffs rather than only one shooting increase. With lower ballistic skills than Skitarii units The Kastellans and Kataphrons would probably be more effective unit Doctrina Imperatives? It seems the Canticles have more rounded effects with stealth boosts and leadership bolstering but Doctrina Imperatives just squeeze more effectiveness out of a shooting phase.

 

That is a good point, from gaming terms, itd probably be more useful for the cult mech to have the doctrinas and skitarii to have the canticles!

 

If i had to choose, id go for canticles for both, especially if when then taking combined skit/CM all your units count towards it.

[BassWave]

In a combined codex, I would like to see everything get imperatives except for anything that has "priest" in the name. Then rework canticles so that you can only use them with a priest nearby. The power levels are dictated by how close the affected unit is to a chanting priest. Say if you are within 8" (holy number) you get the top tier effect, followed by 16" and 24" for the other levels. This way gameplay reflects fluff better as the canticles come from priests singing data psalms that affects their soldiers.

[dramagod2]

I think it would be good to for each unit to have both but for an army to have to choose between them. That way, it would become a strategic part of list building while losing the cheesiness that comes with having both. I think of it as the mission programming loaded for that particular battle. They could even add another "Technological Discipline" if they wanted giving even more building option. 

[Magos Takatus]

Now that is a good idea. It sounds a bit like Tyranid synapse rules but it fits the theme really well. I could well picture the Dominus relaying targeting information to servitors or a Datasmith micromanaging his robots.

 

Here's an interesting question: Electro Priests are a squad rather than individual Tech Priests, would you have them projecting the Canticles rather than recieving them since they are some of the more fanatical parts of the faction? I could see them finding a use spreading Canticles through the rest of the army rather than relying on them from a Dominus? Perhaps different Tech Priests could unlock different Canticles? Litany of the Electromancer could be unlocked by Corpuscari squads for example? 

 

I fear I'm overcomplicating it a bit now, but I'm sure there's a way these rules could work together in a way that is streamlined and fun to play.

[Vel'Cona]

For my money, I'd like to see Canticles stay as the overarching army special rule for a combined AdMech codex, as it's more flexible and rewards playing "pure" AdMech more (since you need actual AdMech units to power it).  I'd like to see Imperatives rolled into the unit special rules for Skitarii (Rangers/Vanguard) and possibly Secutarii (assuming they find their way into the base codex).  For example, Rangers would gain a scaling BS bonus/WS minus based on the size of the unit, rewarding you for taking larger squads and representing the exponential power of larger numbers of guns coordinating, whereas Vanguard would gain a mirrored WS bonus/BS minus (for example).  This bonus could be granted via a Leadership test or suchlike.

[Xisor]

I'd not be entirely surprised if, with the next edition, many of these rules got 'simplified', even to the point of being a fundamental game mechanic (like Special Orders in BFG).

 

It'd combine in the various 'similar' rules:

- Canticles & Doctrinas

- Tactical/Assault/Devastator things

- Astra Militarum Orders

- Tyranid Synapse.

 

But in the Mechanicus' case, each unit/faction has a modifier. E.g. Skitarii are 'optimised', so get a bonus to the regular suite of... orders.

 

The Priests, on the other hand, become loci for that sort of thing - like officers in the IG, but also possibly with the ability to add their own effects ontop of it.

 

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Heavens, wouldn't that be nice? If 40k went a bit BFG/Epic:Armageddon? You activate formations, but having monolithic formations means you can be outmanoeuvred, too many small ones are easily neutralised. And with BFG, extract those Special Orders. 

 

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As for Ad Mech as a whole, the 'ideal' would just be to get all twelve, but you can only use one per turn. If I had to pick? Canticles, mainly because it's just more interesting!

[pompeyladbfp]

canticles army wide, doctrinas replaced with a once per battle bs or ws bonus to all affected units (skitarii)