Sister_Miriya Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 So I have not played a game since the good ol' witch hunter days... Do any of you have any opinions on the above options or game experience? The vet and laud hailer are typically seen as an one or the other option but with both of them you are almost guaranteed to pop off your AoF. And with the banner, you get a 2nd use of your AoF, which seems nice but do you typically get a chance to use it? For 30 extra points, you can have a hell of an amount of AoF use but it seems rather point dense... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330201-bss-vets-laud-hailers-and-simulacrum-imperialis/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.T. Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I tend not to go for vets outside of the rare blob squad and sometimes retributors. Simulacrums on retributor squads as the main benefit of taking them instead of a heavy weapon command squad is the rending. Dominion faith is also good but I don't plan on them surviving long enough to benefit from two uses of it, and boltering other faith is not worth the extra points. The odd laud hailer is of most use to the dominions who are both going to be around their vehicle when they want to use it (unlike retributors on foot) and want to get that power off. The new outsider is the dialogus, not for her laud hailer but as an alternate relic carrier for squads without a priest - something that may become more relevant as more special characters freely handing out relics appear like Celestine and Cawl. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330201-bss-vets-laud-hailers-and-simulacrum-imperialis/#findComment-4632288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofish7591 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Typically I only take veteran superiors or laud hailers on my dominions, as I want to make sure they get the AoF off but even then its usually one or the other. Simulacrums I have only taken in blob squads or retributors, as a second use of their AoF can be useful. With the typical MSU style approach most people have with sisters right now, I would only put those upgrades on a squad that will 100% for sure be able to make use of it. I like to keep my armies WYSIWYG, and unfortunately most of my superiors are armed with power weapons so I am usually tight on points so vets, laud hailers, and simulacrums are usually what gets cut in my lists first. Which reminds me, I really need to try and get some more superiors without power weapons... oh no, an excuse to by more models! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330201-bss-vets-laud-hailers-and-simulacrum-imperialis/#findComment-4632318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drider Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I recall seeing it mathed out somewhere that the reroll from the laud hailer was better than the +1 from the vet upgrade. LH are also more effective per point, if you have some points left over you can just sprinkle them onto a couple random transports rather than upgrading a vet in each squad. LH also have more synergy with celestine (everyone is testing vs her LD10 if she's the warlord) and priests (who are going to be testing for hymns unless they're holding litanies) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330201-bss-vets-laud-hailers-and-simulacrum-imperialis/#findComment-4632334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Dante Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I like Veteran Superiors over Laud Hailers, since my vehicles always get popped sure they might be better in use, but I never get the chance to use them (Outflanking dominions being the only exception, but there are enough games where I don't ever attempt the Dominion's AoF that I don't usually take either for them). Veteran Superiors are good for BSSs I think, and almost mandatory for Retributors (you take them for the Rending, and it sucks if you fail). The only units I consider giving Simulacrums to are Retributors (I always give them a Simulacrum) and large BSSs. In any other case I just don't know that it's worth the points, plus if you somehow lose the Simulacrum before the squad is completely dead they are stuck with no AoFs. They are cheaper but arguably less useful than they were in WH (I started 40K in 6th edition, but I've played several games of 3E. That's a fun codex. :P) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330201-bss-vets-laud-hailers-and-simulacrum-imperialis/#findComment-4632404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 My view seems to be the same as everyone else's. Retributors are the only ones likely to have a chance to use and Act twice so they are the only ones who get a simulacrum. I like veteran superiors in my Dominion and Retributor squads only. Even then they are not auto-include for Dominions. I virtually never use a laud hailer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330201-bss-vets-laud-hailers-and-simulacrum-imperialis/#findComment-4632533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Dante Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 My view seems to be the same as everyone else's. Retributors are the only ones likely to have a chance to use and Act twice so they are the only ones who get a simulacrum. I like veteran superiors in my Dominion and Retributor squads only. Even then they are not auto-include for Dominions. I virtually never use a laud hailer. I put a Laud Hailer on my Command Squad's Immolator, though they almost never get to use it :P I just like the way it looks, and I like to be WYSIWYG. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330201-bss-vets-laud-hailers-and-simulacrum-imperialis/#findComment-4632583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonbandito Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I'm actually a fan of Veteran Superiors on all squads, where-ever I can find the points for them. Unlike Marines, Battle Sisters don't have ATSKNF which means things like Pinning and Morale have a far greater impact. Given how likely your Sisters are to be mechanised as well, and how easy it is to wreck a Rhino chassis, having that +1LD for the Pinning test you have to take when you are forced to disembark from a wrecked vehicle can really help out and stop your squad from being useless the next turn. I do personally like to run 10-woman Battle Sister squads though, so I don't tend to view my Troop choices as throw-away as much as someone running 5 woman squads might I guess (but I also don't play in a particularly tough meta at my FLGS to be fair). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330201-bss-vets-laud-hailers-and-simulacrum-imperialis/#findComment-4632593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister_Miriya Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 So laud hailers are not really a crowd favorite upgrade. Good to know! So, vets and the simulacrum are unit dependant... Thank you much! I'm building a new 7th edition list/wish list that will double as my shopping list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330201-bss-vets-laud-hailers-and-simulacrum-imperialis/#findComment-4632594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drider Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'm actually a fan of Veteran Superiors on all squads, where-ever I can find the points for them. Unlike Marines, Battle Sisters don't have ATSKNF which means things like Pinning and Morale have a far greater impact. Given how likely your Sisters are to be mechanised as well, and how easy it is to wreck a Rhino chassis, having that +1LD for the Pinning test you have to take when you are forced to disembark from a wrecked vehicle can really help out and stop your squad from being useless the next turn. I do personally like to run 10-woman Battle Sister squads though, so I don't tend to view my Troop choices as throw-away as much as someone running 5 woman squads might I guess (but I also don't play in a particularly tough meta at my FLGS to be fair). if you're that worried about LD tests a priest is better than a vet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330201-bss-vets-laud-hailers-and-simulacrum-imperialis/#findComment-4632629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 if you're that worried about LD tests a priest is better than a vet. Well, Litanies of Faith is better. A priest without that will be rolling on the Sisters Ld, veteran or not. :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330201-bss-vets-laud-hailers-and-simulacrum-imperialis/#findComment-4632638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonbandito Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Priests have Zealot (Fearless effectively), so his point is that you would auto-pass Pinning and Morale tests. However, they also cost 2.5x as much as a Veteran Superior, and if you're playing from Codex: Imperial Agents are no longer slotless HQ choices. You also can't fit one in with a full squad inside a Rhino, and they don't help with other types of Leadership checks (ie Act of Faith tests, or things like Psychic Shriek and so on). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330201-bss-vets-laud-hailers-and-simulacrum-imperialis/#findComment-4632649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drider Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Ministorum Delegation. Unless you're playing with a source cap you can actually take more than 5 in your army, which was the C:AS cap. Price is an issue though, i'm not going to argue on that point, but it does bring more to the table than a vet upgrade so worth the extra 15 points. I will admit however that i hardly ever use them myself. ultimately though i'd rather have a few LH than vets. seeing as a priest only brings sisters to par with marines it would be nice if a BSS+priest was the same cost as a tac squad. Sadly that isn't the case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330201-bss-vets-laud-hailers-and-simulacrum-imperialis/#findComment-4632667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracpanzer Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Laud Hailer has the chance to impact any unit in range, you get a lot more uses out of it than a simulacrum in a squad or a +1 leadership on one squad. Re-roll of an 8 or less is far better than one roll of 9 or less even if the LH only effects one unit the entire game. I put them on a bare rhinos if I am running them. They are less likely to target a rhino over an immolator and when they do, I guess I see that as a bonus too. My problem with a simulacrum in rets or doms, is that they cost 22 points to bring one. Superiors can't carry them, and with four weapons you have to grab the extra body. Do that enough and you can field another squad. I always field my BSS with two flamers in a mmelta immolator. Cheap, can pop a tank and gets to burn stuff. Really just there to free up points for my six dom squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330201-bss-vets-laud-hailers-and-simulacrum-imperialis/#findComment-4632700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifte Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I take both a vet and a laud hailer in my Dominion Squads/Dominion Immos. I'd recommend it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330201-bss-vets-laud-hailers-and-simulacrum-imperialis/#findComment-4634381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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