Best Ways To Deal With AV14 By Shooting

[Jarkaira]

Calculated Laser Destroyer Vindicator stats and three of them shaves off 1.88 AV14 and 1.28 AV Flareshield hullpoints. So without moving those values are 3.76 and 2.55 and overcharged 5.63 and 3.83. That gives index values of 1.33 and 0.9 for overcharged. With tank hunters being taken note off of course.

[Jarkaira]

Testing image embedding

 

http://kuofi.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/IMG_1306.jpg

[disease]

Whilst certainly interesting, and confirmed my thoughts on what works, I can't help but feel this is not in the spirit of 30k. As in, many of us moved away from 40k for exactly this WAAC attitude. 

 

Let us not forget this fact when making lists; just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

 

Having said that, thank you for the effort that went into the graph.

[Jarkaira]

It is not about WAAC at all.

 

That is meant for those guys wondering how to counter something awful in a Spartan.

 

So it is counter WAAC actually :)

[Erren]

Also, here in the Tactics forum, can we please stop telling people who enjoy planning and playing an efficient army that they aren't having fun right? There's plenty of room in this hobby for everyone. In fact, by having all types in the hobby it results in more sales for Games Workshop, which allows them to invest in making even more of the models and books that we love.

[defl0]

Interesting but kinda misleading. Weapons that grind off hit points vs weapons pen and have chances to blue things up are very different beasts. Fit example, AP1 is a big deal.

 

You really need to compare apples to apples, so HPs per point spent.

 

All that said, thanks for sharing is interesting to see

[Jarkaira]

Blowing things up isn't that common as it's propabilities are so small and when you take flare shield in notion they often become totally ignored.

 

Armored Ceramite means that S8 melta will only glance AV14 and can't even do any harm against Flare Shield. S9 AP1 will still just glance against Flare Shield.

 

If you manage to get a side shot with S9 AP1 BS4 means you'll have a 3.7% probability to blow up something. It is basically never unless you use dice that aleays roll a six.

 

I mean with 20 shots you'll get binomial probability of 52.9% for Explodes! result meaning you would blow something up bit over half the time.

[Gorgoff]

If you get a pen and have AP1 it is only a 3,7% chance to blow that tank up?

Isn't it 1/3?

[Jarkaira]

Per shot it is 3.7%.

4/6 to hit then 1/6 to pen and then 2/6(or 1/3 which is the same) for Explodes! result.

 

As you arent guarenteed to pen each time you shoot unless you got those dice that roll six each time :)

[Gorgoff]

Ah ok. I thought that you meant the Chance to roll a 5+ on the chart. :)

In my World, where math is a creepy stranger, it works like this:

If three dudes fire their Meltas one will miss. Unless the target has a Flare Shield both will penetrate and with two dice with AP1 on the chart I have a 50:50 Chance to kill that tank.

That means six dudes should kill it.

Two Castellax with Praevian and Tank Hunter have a 35-40% chance to blow a tank up in my humble experience.

When I look at your really cool image I think that my way of thinking is quite right. :)

[Jarkaira]

Would work somewhat better if there is no armored ceramite. If it has AC then they just have a 1/6 change to glance it. If it doesn't have AC (and allows you to get in a melta range) then something is wrong with that opponent and he deserves to get his tank blown :)

[Gorgoff]

No one in my Meta uses AC. Me neither.

I don't know why but it is like it is. We even make fun about the fact whenever a Melta blows up an tank.

"Ya have AC?

Of course not.

Ok, let's see.... BOOM there goes your dynamite."

:D

[Jarkaira]

That is some lovely spirit there :)

 

Imo they should have saved AC just for some seriously special land raider variants and flyers instead of giving access for nearly every vehicle.

[2gud2bbad]

I'm using Machinekiller AL Vets with Tankhunter USR equipped with a load of Melta Guns and Combi-Meltas and Banestrikeshells, so they are still usable as a anti-infantry unit afterwards. You can kill everything in one go besides that flare-shielded AC Spartan from the front - but then you screwed up badly already anyways.

[Jarkaira]

That's a nice combo. Statistically it does 3.24 hull points worth of damage against AC AV14. That does cost 305pts with transport so it has Index of 1.06 making it a bit more cost effective than LD rapiers.

[Sanct]

In my World, where math is a creepy stranger, it works like this:

If three dudes fire their Meltas one will miss. Unless the target has a Flare Shield both will penetrate and with two dice with AP1 on the chart I have a 50:50 Chance to kill that tank.

That means six dudes should kill it.

 

 

You're saying for 60% of the time they both pen 100% of the time??

 

 in case of Graviton Rapiers I assumed they'll hit 75% of the time.

 

 

Little worrying.  Grav Rapiers are large blast so 2.5" and a -4" on the scatter dice is a 7+ to miss the initial center hole.  Anything Land raider size would need about 2" directly to the sides (and about 3" any other) to have any part of the blast miss the hull.

That's more like 90% than 75% hit rate.

[Jackalwolf]

Amazing data.

 

Just curious RE vindicator laser destroyer. How come if it has HP loss values so similar to the Lightning and a lower point cost, then has a lower index? Shouldn´t it be the reverse? Vindi is 130 where lightning with Kraken 200+ plus the Krakens only have three shots at max where the laser can fire limitless as long as it´s not destroyed.

[Jarkaira]

It is squadron of three vindicators and a command tank upgrade as discussed about before. I just should have mentioned it on the post about saying that I calculated it as the squadron part is missing.

[Jarkaira]

I'll change the guesstimate for the Graviton Rapiers at the same time when I'll add those MM Vets too.

[Jackalwolf]

Ahh thanks!

[BrainCandy]

Might want to check my math on this but I did some numbers for a dual Melta Leviathan drop podding in. It's carries a minimum of just over 400 points with the drop pod. Assuming the target has AC and you dodge the flare shield, this thing would only strip 1.6 hull points a turn. It should get .83 pens a turn, meaning it does have a .27% chance to blow up an AV14 Spartan outright a turn.

 

Of course, if the target doesn't have AC or can't get it, that Leviathan is all but guaranteed to pop it in one round.

 

The Dorito dread would strip roughly 1.1 hull points a turn. With .82 effective pens counting exoshock, it's chance to outright destroy it's target is only .13%. it's low number of attacks drastically dampens any gains from the str 10 of it's guns. With it's cheapest lascannon fit, it costs very nearly as much as the Leviathan while doing less damage. It's advantages of range a largely offset in a drop pod attack but can still effectively target aircraft.

 

In short, neither dread, even in it's most optimum firing position, is even close to better options when it comes to killing an AC Spartan at range. Even more so when considering the high points cost of these elite dreads.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

What a waste of points and only good at one thing. I cringe every time I see a Levi without a melee weapon.

[Gorgoff]

In my World, where math is a creepy stranger, it works like this:

If three dudes fire their Meltas one will miss. Unless the target has a Flare Shield both will penetrate and with two dice with AP1 on the chart I have a 50:50 Chance to kill that tank.

That means six dudes should kill it.

 

You're saying for 60% of the time they both pen 100% of the time??

 

 

Yes, in my experience they kill a tank on a 50:50 ratio.

Without AC, of course. If I take 6 Meltas it gonna die.

Sure, there are times, where that doesn’t happen, but there are also times where 3 HSS dudes with Volkite Culverines kill 5 Jumper in overwatch. ;)

[Reyner]

Reading this thread I get this in my head:

 

 

Nice work guys, Laser Vindicators look pretty amazing for busting AV14 :P Still need to get myself a couple. Wonder how much their damage would increase if the Ultramarine Legion rules were in play (the reroll when another unit fires at their target to paint it).

[TompiQ]

Reading this thread I get this in my head:

 

 

Nice work guys, Laser Vindicators look pretty amazing for busting AV14 :P Still need to get myself a couple. Wonder how much their damage would increase if the Ultramarine Legion rules were in play (the reroll when another unit fires at their target to paint it).

Doesn't the Ultramarines rule require you to have Legiones Astartes (Ultramarines) to benefit from the re-roll? I thought other units were only able to trigger them, not benefit from them?