Guiltysparc Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Apologies in advance if this is a dumb question or has been covered before. I recently picked up a knight lancer to add to my world eaters force but am having to hard time figuring out exactly how it fits in as a LoW. If i'm reading the red book correctly, i believe i can take it as a 'war machine' as that section mentions questoris knights. If my understanding is correct, then i'm having two problems (if its wrong the, well :cuss, lol). First - which flavor of knight goes in that slot, ie scion, martial, etc? Second - Which book should i get for the rules, mechanicum red book, crusade red book, book iv? Also, i can't quite figure out how to do it in battlescribe, but this isn't the forum for that. Thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330572-probably-a-dumb-question-re-knights-as-lows/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 First - which flavor of knight goes in that slot, ie scion, martial, etc? Second - Which book should i get for the rules, mechanicum red book, crusade red book, book iv? 1.) As a LoW choice for a Legion army the Knight in question uses no Household ranks. I.E. no further benefits or limitations. It just comes 'stock'. 2.) Crusade Imperialis Army List. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330572-probably-a-dumb-question-re-knights-as-lows/#findComment-4642448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Can I get Allied Knight Detachment? I really want that Cerastus Atropos and Questoris Macarena in a same list (as well as Typhon). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330572-probably-a-dumb-question-re-knights-as-lows/#findComment-4642483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Yes, allied detachments are possible. Rules are in the book mentioned above. No, you can't take an Atropos in an allied detachment since it's a LoW only selection for Mechanicum Taghmata or a 0-1 choice in a Questoris primary detachment of 2.000+ pts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330572-probably-a-dumb-question-re-knights-as-lows/#findComment-4642516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 First - which flavor of knight goes in that slot, ie scion, martial, etc? Second - Which book should i get for the rules, mechanicum red book, crusade red book, book iv? 1.) As a LoW choice for a Legion army the Knight in question uses no Household ranks. I.E. no further benefits or limitations. It just comes 'stock'. 2.) Crusade Imperialis Army List. Great, thanks. Part of my confusion was that i was looking at the knights in battlescribe since i dont have their red book yet and was trying to figure out which one came in through the LoW slot in a legion army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330572-probably-a-dumb-question-re-knights-as-lows/#findComment-4642624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Yes, allied detachments are possible. Rules are in the book mentioned above. No, you can't take an Atropos in an allied detachment since it's a LoW only selection for Mechanicum Taghmata or a 0-1 choice in a Questoris primary detachment of 2.000+ pts. I am looking at the entry and I dont see where it says Primary Detachment it certainly says Questoris knight crusade army as a 0-1 choice per 2000 pts in the army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330572-probably-a-dumb-question-re-knights-as-lows/#findComment-4645091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 So it is ok to use in larger than 2k games as allies too? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330572-probably-a-dumb-question-re-knights-as-lows/#findComment-4645118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangaman Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Yes, allied detachments are possible. Rules are in the book mentioned above. No, you can't take an Atropos in an allied detachment since it's a LoW only selection for Mechanicum Taghmata or a 0-1 choice in a Questoris primary detachment of 2.000+ pts. '2000+ pts' is not the same as 'per 2000pts', the wording in the redbook would allow ONE Atrapos per 2000pts, once the threshold has been surpassed eg. 2500pts you can take TWO in the same army. For the sake of Jaikara's question, you can take one Knight of any flavour besides an Atrapos or Porphyrion OR you can ally a Questoris Knight list and take an Atrapos plus another Knight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330572-probably-a-dumb-question-re-knights-as-lows/#findComment-4645335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Exclusion by omission does not trump specifically granted permission. In a permissive ruleset a specific permission has to be countered by a specific rule with language stating such. Since page 9 tells us we can take Knights by granting us explicit permission to do this, these boxes would need some language that explicitly prevents us from taking them in a War Machine Detachment. Instead they effectively just add them to the Admech and Knights list. It’s the same as saying X unit may be taken as elites, but then another rule comes along and says X unit may be taken as troops in a particular scenario. Otherwise Coils of the Hydra wouldn't work for stealing other units or Pride of the Legion wouldn't work for swapping Vets to troops, for example. The Warmachine Detachment is effectively an override for taking Knights outside their normal restrictions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330572-probably-a-dumb-question-re-knights-as-lows/#findComment-4645593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 '2000+ pts' is not the same as 'per 2000pts', the wording in the redbook would allow ONE Atrapos per 2000pts, once the threshold has been surpassed eg. 2500pts you can take TWO in the same army. Not what it says at all. The wording is: '... as a 0-1 choice PER 2.000 pts. in the army.' Which means you can bring one in an army of 2.000 - 3.999 pts., two in a force of 4.000+ pts. etc. Every other way to read or interpret the text seems to be pure wishlisting. So, good luck fielding an allied detachment of 2.000 pts. of Knights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330572-probably-a-dumb-question-re-knights-as-lows/#findComment-4645792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 So, good luck fielding an allied detachment of 2.000 pts. of Knights. would probably do better to run both troop slots so you can score. But Yea its not like its hard Knights are expensive units Considering I play between 2500 and 5000 often enough and own the models in question +++Challenge Accepted (Warhammer 30,000 - The Horus Heresy v49) (2195pts) +++ ++ The Age of Darkness (Questoris Knight Crusade Army v23) (2195pts) ++ + HQ (485pts) + Seneschal (485pts) Cerastus Knight-Atrapos [Lascutter, Singularity Cannon] + Elites (435pts) + Aucteller (435pts) [Cerastus Knight-Lancer] + Troops (375pts) + Scion Martial (375pts) [Questoris Knight Paladin] + Fast Attack (415pts) + Scion Uhlan (415pts) [Cerastus Knight-Acheron] + Heavy Support (485pts) + Scion Arbalester (485pts) Questoris Knight Crusader [ironstorm missile pod, Rapid-fire battlecannon and Heavy Stubber] + Force Organization + Force Organization Battles in the Age of Darkness [Allied Detachment] What I do wonder is if its per 2000 points in the Questoris part of the list or per 2000 points in the ARMY AS A WHOLE Cause then your allied detachment points contribution wouldn't matter so long as your army is at least 2000 points. Considering it says ARMY and not DETACHMENT I would reckon it means army as in your total points value not the points value of your allied detachment which is part of said army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330572-probably-a-dumb-question-re-knights-as-lows/#findComment-4645804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 What I do wonder is if its per 2000 points in the Questoris part of the list or per 2000 points in the ARMY AS A WHOLE I'd believe it's per 2.000 pts. in the Questoris part to be honest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330572-probably-a-dumb-question-re-knights-as-lows/#findComment-4646475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 I certainly can understand that interpretation , Id argue against it but I understand how one could get there. I wish forge world would clarify that for us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330572-probably-a-dumb-question-re-knights-as-lows/#findComment-4646504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TompiQ Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Army always refers to your entire force as per the BRB. If it were the detachment, it would specify this. For an example see the Legio Custodes Shield Captain which can be upgraded to a Tribune "so long as the Detachment they are a part of is of 2000 points or more". So it is clear that it is only the entire force that has to be of 2000 points. However from its wording it seems you have to reach 2000 points including the Knight to unlock it, hence it is 1 in a 2k+ force, 2 in a 4k+ and so on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330572-probably-a-dumb-question-re-knights-as-lows/#findComment-4658171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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