The Stormkin (or, my Not-The-Destroyers)

[Draakur]

Those that noticed or helped me explore trying to get the Destroyers off the ground will have seen that I eventually gave them up, once made aware they would eventually get fleshed out in official canon.

 

However I'm not prepared to drop some of the themes I felt had so much potential, so I began work on a DIY Scars successor instead, the Stormkin (not completely married to the name, I like it but open to suggestions).The following is what I have so far.

 

I'd never used this approach before, but I know others that, in building the framework of a Chapter early on, say to list a few short, key concepts and influences to move from. I've tried for that here:

 

- "Scars gone wrong"; unstable, sinister

- Thenns (Game of Thrones iteration); scarification, ritualistic cannibalism (omophagea abuse)

- librarian leaders, prognosticating; psyker worship

- use fear/terror/sabotage

- bad Imperial relationships

 

Now, beyond this, I have a hundred ideas written down on WHO they are, on Chapter rituals, practices, organisation, etc, but I don't know that I should list them yet, and here's why - I always focus too much on that side of things, and then come up empty on the WHY they're that way, or HOW they got there. My writing of a Chapter's origins, history, and character-shaping events, frankly, sucks... I'm good at building the face of the Chapters I want to create, the "surface", but I can't do the reasoning as to their being who they are beyond the easy, played out tropes we've all seen, and they end up lacking substance in many ways as a result.

 

I flounder awhile, get irritated, come back to them later but with the same problem, then end up scrapping all of my efforts, and I don't want to do that this time (I've got so many Chapters in the trash bin as a result of this...).

 

So I'm having a logistical/thought-process issue here which is frustrating the hell out of me, and I need advice: should I post my concepts for their current identity and see if you all, my fellow frater, can help me work backwards? Or try to build from the bottom up, risking them coming out differently in the end to how I'd pictured them? Or something altogether different? I'd love ideas on how to move forward here.

 

Help me Liber, you're my only hope!

[Zhiv]

Those that noticed or helped me explore trying to get the Destroyers off the ground will have seen that I eventually gave them up, once made aware they would eventually get fleshed out in official canon.

 

However I'm not prepared to drop some of the themes I felt had so much potential, so I began work on a DIY Scars successor instead, the Stormkin (not completely married to the name, I like it but open to suggestions).The following is what I have so far.

 

I'd never used this approach before, but I know others that, in building the framework of a Chapter early on, say to list a few short, key concepts and influences to move from. I've tried for that here:

 

- "Scars gone wrong"; unstable, sinister

- Thenns (Game of Thrones iteration); scarification, ritualistic cannibalism (omophagea abuse)

- librarian leaders, prognosticating; psyker worship

- use fear/terror/sabotage

- bad Imperial relationships

 

Now, beyond this, I have a hundred ideas written down on WHO they are, on Chapter rituals, practices, organisation, etc, but I don't know that I should list them yet, and here's why - I always focus too much on that side of things, and then come up empty on the WHY they're that way, or HOW they got there. My writing of a Chapter's origins, history, and character-shaping events, frankly, sucks... I'm good at building the face of the Chapters I want to create, the "surface", but I can't do the reasoning as to their being who they are beyond the easy, played out tropes we've all seen, and they end up lacking substance in many ways as a result.

 

I flounder awhile, get irritated, come back to them later but with the same problem, then end up scrapping all of my efforts, and I don't want to do that this time (I've got so many Chapters in the trash bin as a result of this...).

 

So I'm having a logistical/thought-process issue here which is frustrating the hell out of me, and I need advice: should I post my concepts for their current identity and see if you all, my fellow frater, can help me work backwards? Or try to build from the bottom up, risking them coming out differently in the end to how I'd pictured them? Or something altogether different? I'd love ideas on how to move forward here.

 

Help me Liber, you're my only hope!

 

Not entirely fond of the word 'kin' when you could use 'brothers', 'warriors', 'swords' or other well established chapter 'protowords'. 

 

That being said, your framework is consistent, though I am not entirely sure what you mean by psyker worship. Ancestors (dead) and veterans of the chapter as usually valued regardless of their access to psychic powers, so that part would require more detailing. As for the origins, I recommend you look into Mortificators and how their home world has shaped them to get some ideas how the cannibalistic traditions might have infiltrated a noble marine chapter.  Perhaps the cannibalistic natives of your chapter's homeworld worship their shamen and thus, the battle brothers have inbuilt respect of the librarians?

 

But yeah, I would suggest you to come up a reason for each of the themes you have presented, and then expand the themes based on the background, as opposed to writing the themes fully out and then trying to come up with background that fits everything you have written so far.

[Draakur]

Thanks for the reply, Zhiv.

 

I feel similarly about the name, sometimes. Storm Warriors is taken though, and nothing else feels like it fits properly - the name may have to be a WIP, at this stage.

 

I very nearly picked up the Mortifactors (twice), I'm definitely a fan of their themes. I'd like to mimic a certain amount if their disparity from their parent Chapter too actually - in the same way that people look at them and think "how on earth did you guys start from UM heritage and become this abomination?!", I'd like the Stormkin to feel similarly divergent from the nobility of the Scars in many ways.

 

In terms of the Homeworld culture, this seems the easiest way to explain everything, yes. They worship their shamans, who are known to eat the brains of their enemies in bizarre rituals to divine the future. Their cannibalistic behaviour would be less a riot of frenzied gorging and savagery, and more purposeful and symbolic, always performed in ritual (but possibly more unsettling as a result).

[Zhiv]

Thanks for the reply, Zhiv.

 

I feel similarly about the name, sometimes. Storm Warriors is taken though, and nothing else feels like it fits properly - the name may have to be a WIP, at this stage.

 

I very nearly picked up the Mortifactors (twice), I'm definitely a fan of their themes. I'd like to mimic a certain amount if their disparity from their parent Chapter too actually - in the same way that people look at them and think "how on earth did you guys start from UM heritage and become this abomination?!", I'd like the Stormkin to feel similarly divergent from the nobility of the Scars in many ways.

 

In terms of the Homeworld culture, this seems the easiest way to explain everything, yes. They worship their shamans, who are known to eat the brains of their enemies in bizarre rituals to divine the future. Their cannibalistic behaviour would be less a riot of frenzied gorging and savagery, and more purposeful and symbolic, always performed in ritual (but possibly more unsettling as a result).

 

No problems, I used to do this a lot when I frequented the forums the last time, sometime in 2006...

 

I'll note that 'randmoly mutated omophagea' and 'cannibalism' sound an awfully lot like "coincidence", a forced plot point so you might want a mention that the cannibalistic traditions the fresh recruits brought, that started in a seemingly innocent manner, eventually led to the mutation of the organ.

 

So, before you start writing your chapter, maybe detail their home world and the assumed White Scars captain that was made the chapter master of the new chapter. Canon notes that officers of progenitor chapter are used to set up new founding chapters. Once you have something written about those two, you could try to figure out how the founder and the home world would affect the chapter over long run.  From Blood Angels to Space Wolves, all chapters are basically creations of the worlds they recruit from.

 

Few things to ponder.

 

How is the homeworld? Deathworld, or does the planet have also civilization, but perhaps the chapter recruits only from the more primitive tribes? Then again, the civilized people would abhor the cannibals, so perhaps this doesn't work.  How do the natives live? Do they form large societies, or are they formed of small packs / tribes of people?

 

How is Imperial Cult apparent on the world? How is Emperor seen / imagined and worshiped.  Imperial Creed is spread to each and every planet of the Empire, though it takes many forms. This would impact the belief's of the natives, and thus the beliefs of the battle brothers. 

 

How does shamanism interact with the creed? Perhaps the librarians are recruited from hopeful shamans. Perhaps some of the shamanic traditions remain among the chapter.

 

How do the natives wage war (just hitting each others with clubs man to man, or are wars fought by warriors raiding camps much like native American tribes, or perhaps the cannibalistic tribes form mighty cities in mayan fashion and wage large, continent spanning wars?). Figure this out, and you'll figure how your chapter might want to wage war. Not all Ultramarine successors follow codex to the letter, and same would apply to White Scar's successors.

 

Another thing to ponder is White Scar's fluff-noted distaste of drednoughts. Perhaps your natives believe that the soul cannot join the Great Hunter (given Emperor proxy) until their earthen body is disposed, thus allowing Stormkin to have similar tendencies to the progenitor. Doesn't work well if you love dreads though. :P

 

if you manage to figure out something that answers to those questions, I'll prod you onwards.

[Draakur]

Huge response there, thanks so much for taking the time!

 

As simple as some of this is, and despite already being aware of the importance of much of these issues and angles, this is exactly what I needed. And the stuff that isn't simple has already got me thinking in different directions I wouldn't normally have, too. Cheers Zhiv, planning to have solid time tomorrow for writing (and a bit of research I'll need to do as well, I think), I'll be putting up my progress then :tu:

[Draakur]

A few issues cropped up at home, didn't have the time I wanted to devote to this the other day. Last night I was finally freed up though, and after some hashing out this is where I've arrived so far:

 

===

 

- Initial training cadre leader: Grim but wise, with a natural cunning and feel for battlefield operations. Strong belief in tradition and adherence to ritual. Chosen partially for his talents and leadership ability, and also to rid the Scars of his worrying temperament

 

- Omophagea: going to remove the omophagea mutation; serves no purpose, they eat flesh/brains for spiritual (and practical warfare) reasons, not due to uncontrollable biological imperatives

 

- Homeworld: Feral world classification. Land masses largely covered in dangerous swamplands, low mountainous regions and barren deserts. Evidence exists that the planet underwent a near extinction-level episode X years ago that left the planet constantly wracked by storm activity, eradicating much of the population and species of larger fauna - those that lived developed a practise of cannibalism to survive, which forever shaped their beliefs and which remain to this day. People move around to avoid storms, though in certain times they will chase storms down for ritual purposes.

 

- Society/warfare: Initial idea was a nomadic, tribal society but very organised with deep traditional and belief structures - not frothing-at-the-mouth freaks. Culturally, the Emperor is worshipped in his capacity as "the Great Devourer", an all-seeing and all-knowing hunter and warrior, with emphasis on his characteristics as a psyker - as a result, the Shaman caste of the world's tribes typically hold the highest position of authority, seen as being closest to his divinity and forecasters of his intentions and wishes.

 

Warfare typical of such circumstances, but I need help on expanding this. I see big tribes under a single banner but which are usually broken up into smaller groupings of X families; always roaming near each other but rarely geographically close in a single big cohort unless necessary. Raiding and skirmishing feels most right, with inclusion of subtle elements of warfare just as much as direct conflict (scouting, sabotage, terror tactics, cutting supply lines, destroying escape routes pre-battle, elements of psychological warfare, etc)

 

- Dreadnoughts: same as WS mostly, an affront to a warrior's right to die properly. But very rarely if a hero is near death but a Shaman "sees" it is not yet his time, he must be interred. Still seen as a terrible burden and looked on with pity just as much as reverence

 

===

 

Does this feel like it's starting to take shape? All subject to change of course. Again I've got more on cultural practices of the Chapter etc but that's mostly flavour, I need to build the base first this time, and I'm aware of that. Thanks for spurring me on, Zhiv, looking forward to the next prod!

 

If there's anything, anything at all that you've got ideas on to expand or think could be done better (Zhiv or anyone else!), please don't hesitate to post :)

[Zhiv]

Looking good. 

 

Your initial cadre leader might want a (Mongolian) name, and perhaps a note about incident he caused to further flesh out his character, and thus the character he imprinted on the chapter. Did he cause civilian casualties on a daring raid or an ambush? Did he he go berserk and charged into fray causing casualties to his company? 

 

 

 

- Omophagea: going to remove the omophagea mutation; serves no purpose, they eat flesh/brains for spiritual (and practical warfare) reasons, not due to uncontrollable biological imperatives

Might want to expand on the spiritual reasons. Soul Drinkers drink the brains of their foe from chalice to see how they feel. Including a mutant! Perhaps your marines feast upon the hearts of slain foes in order to gain their powers. Though, perhaps they don't eat Chaos marines/cultists. Dietary restrictions might be healthy.

 

 

 

- Homeworld: Feral world classification. Land masses largely covered in dangerous swamplands, low mountainous regions and barren deserts. Evidence exists that the planet underwent a near extinction-level episode X years ago that left the planet constantly wracked by storm activity, eradicating much of the population and species of larger fauna - those that lived developed a practise of cannibalism to survive, which forever shaped their beliefs and which remain to this day. People move around to avoid storms, though in certain times they will chase storms down for ritual purposes. 

You don't need a catastrophe to become a cannibal as proven by many cultures on earth. I do like chasing storms though, perhaps seasonal rains bring for grass... and attract large animals for the tribes to feed on, meaning that the tribes actively seek rainy regions, in a nomad like fashion, fighting and raiding each other for the spoils? Cannibalism would be ritualistic (as opposed to necessity).  If your cannibalism is based on necessity, why continue it when there's a plenty of food?

 

Society/warfare: Initial idea was a nomadic, tribal society but very organised with deep traditional and belief structures - not frothing-at-the-mouth freaks. Culturally, the Emperor is worshipped in his capacity as "the Great Devourer", an all-seeing and all-knowing hunter and warrior, with emphasis on his characteristics as a psyker - as a result, the Shaman caste of the world's tribes typically hold the highest position of authority, seen as being closest to his divinity and forecasters of his intentions and wishes.

 

So the shaman are the tribe elders and the fact tribal leaders? Are the shaman also warriors, or just frail people with mystic powers? Do they have totems / do they use herbs/poisons to help their visions/powers? How does this affect the chapter librarium?  How are neophytes recruited? Is there a tournament ala Ultramarines, or do the hopeful need to reach certain place ala Blood Angels or do the Chaplains / Librarians pick the potential neophytes from field of battle ala Space Wolves. This might not make much sense as the raiders and skirmishers won't be easy to spot.

 

 

 

Warfare typical of such circumstances, but I need help on expanding this. I see big tribes under a single banner but which are usually broken up into smaller groupings of X families; always roaming near each other but rarely geographically close in a single big cohort unless necessary. Raiding and skirmishing feels most right, with inclusion of subtle elements of warfare just as much as direct conflict (scouting, sabotage, terror tactics, cutting supply lines, destroying escape routes pre-battle, elements of psychological warfare, etc)

Sounds like hit and run with terror tactics to me. Keep it as it is, we (by 'we' I mean you) might expand this later.

 

Dreadnoughts: same as WS mostly, an affront to a warrior's right to die properly. But very rarely if a hero is near death but a Shaman "sees" it is not yet his time, he must be interred. Still seen as a terrible burden and looked on with pity just as much as reverence

 

Pretty good idea, and would likely mean that 'devastator' dreadnoughts are rare, with most venerable brothers seeking their fate in close combat, preferring multimeltas, assault cannons and heavy flamers. Ironclad dreadnoughts might be a thing, used to breach fortifications.

 

Perhaps very few or no venerable dreadnoughts because of this.

 

The topic of dreadnoughts brings us to the next matter. Relations.

 

How are chapter's relations with Mars? How are techmarines chosen?  How's the forge in general. Are bikes as important as they are for the Scars. or does the chapter rely more on transports / drop pods. How is the situation with Terminator armor?  Fluff would dictate that suits would be rare, given that they are relatively rare among white scars. How about Centurions? 

 

How the chaplains of the chapter function? Is their armor/uniform the standard black / skull mask, or do they have some particular talismans / features that make them stand apart? Speaking of chaplains, are they responsible for picking new neophytes or is this task left to librarians? If Librarians are venerated and semi-religious figures, does the chapter even have chaplains? Who performs the rites for the slain, who leads battle brothers into prayer before battle? Chaplains... or librarians? If Librarians see to the spiritual needs of the chapter, are chaplains the chroniclers? 

 

Finally Apocatherium. How is the geneseed (I assume stable) and is the chapter paying its genetic tithes (I assume so). Worth a mention as there are several chapters where they have issues with these things. 

 

Sort these out and we'll get to the 'relations with Imperium' part. 

 

 

Final point, it's ok if you don't have answers yet.

Do you have color scheme for these guys? Also, have you figured out their insignia and markings? 

As for the name, how about Stormbringers?  We already have Warbringers after all. 

 

<.< Actually, Storm Bringers are a thing. Never mind.  Alternatively Storm Blades / Storm Spears / Sons of Storm. Speaking of that I recommend keeping printability in mind when you plan your chapter icon

[Draakur]

This is literally the FOURTH time I've sat down to respond to this - every time I either run out of time, or get called away by a business call, or have to attend to family, etc etc. This is still not going to be the reply I'd like to be able to give, Zhiv, but I'll make do for now as I very much want to keep this rolling. So!

 

 

===

 

- Initial cadre leader: First things first, I've settled on more of a Cossack influence (more on their Slavic side) rather than straight Mongolian, in terms of basic features and appearance. I did some reading, and ran down the genetic/cultural lineage of the Mongols and Huns until I found what felt most appropriate for them, and this felt right. The whole Chapter will be uniformly bald on top of the head by choice, and scarring will be heavily present throughout (see the shot of Styr I now have as my display pic).

 

However this guy needs to have a Mongolian/Hunnic name of course, and I've gone for Uldin. I'm stuck on his story, though. He needs to be somehow sinister and strange, though obviously will need to be a hero and able leader, otherwise he'd never have been chosen for the tremendous honour of leading creation of a new Astartes Chapter. Yeh, struggling... he needs a different belief structure to Chapter leadership somehow...

 

- Spiritual justification for eating flesh: They will ritually and often eat the brains, specifically, of defeated enemies, with great adherence to and respect for ritual tradition here. The brain is seen as the seat of the soul and all of a warriors spiritual strength and potency; to consume this is to "absorb his essence" and strengthen a warrior, and is seen as the ultimate act of dominance over a foe. Librarians will further this by eating in rituals to give themselves visions in order to see the future, upon which many of the Chapters decisions are based (definite Silver Skulls vibe, here). Forward elements in scouting parties and the like will also eat other organs to gleam information about enemy whereabouts, plans of attack, etc (one of the original uses of the omophagea put forward in early canon).

 

- Why continue cannibalism after being necessary: The idea was that they would slowly, over hundreds of years, just shift in their beliefs and traditions to the point where they began to see it as more than survival and in fact a powerful act to enrich the soul. Tradition is rarely based on logic, in my experience, and comes about in any number of ways, and I was hoping the same might be true here. Not believable enough??

 

- Shamans: I had them initially as frail old men as you said, but the complete deference to and respect for a non-warrior doesn't feel right for my vision, so I've since changed the idea here to them also being warriors - I see them as muscle-wizards and prognosticators predominantly, these will definitely be their main areas of lore. I've got some ideas on initiation rituals but not on when they're originally picked out by Librarians/stormseers from battle (need a different name here for Librarians too, I feel).

 

- Warfare: Yep sounds good.

 

- Relations/uniforms/specialist roles: I have a few ideas here but I'm still hazy on details, I'll re-address this soon. Suffice to say they're a mixed bag - they'll have some fierce enemies both within the Imperium and without.

 

Re: Astartes interactions, I have a few historical events going (I'm actually writing history fluff! Wonders never cease). One where they earn a lasting ally by, despite all logic to the contrary, bowing to and handing over operational command of a campaign to a fellow Astartes Chapter because their leading officer was a Librarian and the Stormkin had no psykers present (their respect for psykers, especially Astartes, is absolute and they see them as near-divine).

 

And another scenario where, possibly early in their history, they inferred a slight on their honour or were somehow treated badly (in their eyes), and when the offending Chapter would not relent and neither would back down, things escalated to the Stromkin eventually chasing down and utterly annihilating the others. This whole episode was bad enough and many deplored the behaviour, some very vocally, but the final damning act that would shape their reputation as a dark and brutal people (and earn them long term enemies in certain gene lines, maybe) came when after the final battle, they ritually devoured every single set of geneseed of the enemy Chapter's dead, in a final bloody show of domination.

 

- Colours/heraldry: I had predominantly grey with some strategic placement of yellow in mind this whole time, but am not by any means sold on it yet. Heraldry-wise I loved that the Destroyers had a symbol that made me think instantly of a hazard/warning symbol you'd see on the side of dangerous machinery or to mark out dangerous areas in a factory setting or something, and I want to keep that feel. Hence, skulls and lightning bolts, in a suitably hazard-sign format.

 

- Name: Still finding this hard. Yes I believe the Strombringers actually belong to someone else here on the Liber? Not official, but still not something I'd dream of using if someone else has put time into a Chapter using the same name. Beginning to wonder if the Storm particle needs to go altogether even...

 

===

 

 

Thanks again for everything, hoping to keep this running! :) Despite not getting much time on it on here in the Liber, I'm turning it over a lot in my head at the moment, committed to making these guys a work of quality. If you're reading this and have comments or ideas, big or small, feel free to chime in! :)

[Zhiv]

 

 

This is literally the FOURTH time I've sat down to respond to this - every time I either run out of time, or get called away by a business call, or have to attend to family, etc etc. This is still not going to be the reply I'd like to be able to give, Zhiv, but I'll make do for now as I very much want to keep this rolling. So!

I recommend storing your work in google docs.  Free, saves your document after every key stroke and available wherever you have internet access.  Really handy if you only have so much time to work on things. I wrote my rpg campagain background (120 or so pages) over a course of 3 months of idle time at work.

 

 

 

- Initial cadre leader: First things first, I've settled on more of a Cossack influence (more on their Slavic side) rather than straight Mongolian, in terms of basic features and appearance. I did some reading, and ran down the genetic/cultural lineage of the Mongols and Huns until I found what felt most appropriate for them, and this felt right. The whole Chapter will be uniformly bald on top of the head by choice, and scarring will be heavily present throughout (see the shot of Styr I now have as my display pic). 

You think the native tribes have the Cossacky-y vibes? Wild dances, fermenting alcohol and horse games? If you want some Slavic mysticism into your shamen, I recommend looking into Gnostic Gospels  and Khylsts  for your deviant Imperial Cult (both having been thing in 1920's Russia, when cossacks were still around in numbers.  Or then you could call it a day and not fuss with it for a while and focus on the chapter. Also, speaking of horses, are the natives riders.. as are bikes as relevant as they are for Scars?

 

 

 

However this guy needs to have a Mongolian/Hunnic name of course, and I've gone for Uldin. I'm stuck on his story, though. He needs to be somehow sinister and strange, though obviously will need to be a hero and able leader, otherwise he'd never have been chosen for the tremendous honour of leading creation of a new Astartes Chapter. Yeh, struggling... he needs a different belief structure to Chapter leadership somehow...

 

Or perhaps he wasn't such a dick after all. Perhaps he was a great and humane hero of White Scars... and it wasn't until later when the Chapter took a darker turn.  Perhaps 2-3 generations down there was an influential Librarian who turned the Chapter Master / Reclusiarch into his point of view. (See Rasputin for reference.) Perhaps this Librarian is now a venerated battle-philosopher?

 

 

 

- Why continue cannibalism after being necessary: The idea was that they would slowly, over hundreds of years, just shift in their beliefs and traditions to the point where they began to see it as more than survival and in fact a powerful act to enrich the soul. Tradition is rarely based on logic, in my experience, and comes about in any number of ways, and I was hoping the same might be true here. Not believable enough??

It's not a matter of believable or not, it's a matter of Occam's razor. They might have always been cannibals, and that's all that's needed. Explanations don't always add to a matter. But I'll leave this to you, it's fine either way.

 

Shamans: I had them initially as frail old men as you said, but the complete deference to and respect for a non-warrior doesn't feel right for my vision, so I've since changed the idea here to them also being warriors - I see them as muscle-wizards and prognosticators predominantly, these will definitely be their main areas of lore. I've got some ideas on initiation rituals but not on when they're originally picked out by Librarians/stormseers from battle (need a different name here for Librarians too, I feel)

 

I think this works better than the frail old men. Perhasps some of the shamanistic rituals steal strength from their victims, making the shamans some kind of Highlandersque characters?  Just tossing ideas in to the wind.

 

Re: Astartes interactions, I have a few historical events going (I'm actually writing history fluff! Wonders never cease). One where they earn a lasting ally by, despite all logic to the contrary, bowing to and handing over operational command of a campaign to a fellow Astartes Chapter because their leading officer was a Librarian and the Stormkin had no psykers present (their respect for psykers, especially Astartes, is absolute and they see them as near-divine). 

 

Also, sounds like they would not get along with Black Templars. :P   That other chapter, btw, could be Soul Drinkers that are known for having a) Librarians lead operations b)are fleet based and c) are old enough to be where the fluff needs them to be. 

 

 

And another scenario where, possibly early in their history, they inferred a slight on their honour or were somehow treated badly (in their eyes), and when the offending Chapter would not relent and neither would back down, things escalated to the Stromkin eventually chasing down and utterly annihilating the others. This whole episode was bad enough and many deplored the behaviour, some very vocally, but the final damning act that would shape their reputation as a dark and brutal people (and earn them long term enemies in certain gene lines, maybe) came when after the final battle, they ritually devoured every single set of geneseed of the enemy Chapter's dead, in a final bloody show of domination. 

Insert Salamanders or their successors, though I would not go 'annihilating' the other faction/chapter. Kinda superman syndrome, kinda drastic and would draw attention from Inquisition. Also makes the victims look like ~weak. Unless Stormkin outnumber them, of course.

 

'Come to blows' is likely better term. I am pretty sure that 'eating imperial space marines' would be seen heresy, regardless of the omophagea. You don't need to go THAT far to have another chapter few up with yours.  All in all, this might need to be toned down a bit. 

 

 

Colours/heraldry: I had predominantly grey with some strategic placement of yellow in mind this whole time, but am not by any means sold on it yet. Heraldry-wise I loved that the Destroyers had a symbol that made me think instantly of a hazard/warning symbol you'd see on the side of dangerous machinery or to mark out dangerous areas in a factory setting or something, and I want to keep that feel. Hence, skulls and lightning bolts, in a suitably hazard-sign format

 

You might need to decide how you identify company / squad category before you start playing with the colors. Using shoulder pads or pad trims for squad type gets awkward if you want to splash in some yellow.  Meanwhile while using yellow shoulder pads would let you work with dark transfers (optimal) but would make your grey guys look like space wolves. 

 

Using transfers for squad type gets messy (but can be worth it). Easy solution is to use the helmet color to designate the arms, e.g. grey = tactical, yellow = assault, white = veteran, blue (or black) = devastator. This would let you do ~what you want with the shoulder pads as long as you use knee to indicate company... assuming your chapter is divided into companies as codex chapters see it.

 

 

 

 

Name: Still finding this hard. Yes I believe the Strombringers actually belong to someone else here on the Liber? Not official, but still not something I'd dream of using if someone else has put time into a Chapter using the same name. Beginning to wonder if the Storm particle needs to go altogether even...

 

 

 

Maybe storm's not even necessary. Considering Destroyers and Marauders, you could try to work with Extirpators, Desolators, (Grey) Slayers or anything else you can get out of Thesaurus with 'destroy'. :P This approach would work with your chapter's modus operandi.

 

Aaaand in 20 lines or so I've given you enough to think... and something that probably takes upwards 100 lines to sort out.  Have fun. :P

[Draakur]

He's a fast one! Appreciate the speedy reply :)

 

 

===

 

- Google docs: Somehow I had never even considered this, but it's a great idea :tu:

 

- Slavic leaning, Khylsts etc: Yep, this is definitely where I'm going. I love this feel, it still pays homage and retains links to the Scars cultural feel and aesthetic (despite bald heads, wild, untempered moustaches will abound, and let none stay their fury!) but is different enough to stand on its own. Want to keep delving further into the Slavic cultures and mysticism for ideas.

 

A brief skim already shows promise with the Khylsts - the notion of a possibility of real, direct communion with Christ (the Emperor) and his living embodiment in people in the universe (psykers) is more or less perfect, and something to be riffed on, I think. Seems the Khylsts also renounced reverance of saints, the general priesthood, holy books, etc... so they made faith/spiritually a more personal journey? This brings forward an idea I'd been playing with - one of the negative relationships, being a rift between them and the Ecclesiarchy. Maybe they're so different that, while not so far gone as to be excommunicated, they're unofficially 'blacklisted' and disapproved of by the Ecclesiarchy, who starts refusing to ordain/accept Chaplains to the point that they do away with the rank altogether? "We understand the Emperor perfectly well, and don't need your stamp of approval to tell us so". Or is this just begging to get purged by every available local force about yesterday.

 

- Horses/bikes: I don't see the horse theme heavily, and as Astartes I see them more in Speeders actually, as it allows them to bring greater destructive potential. As much as they're swift hunters and all about the subtler arts of war in many ways, when they do commit to a proper assault I think they'll really go for the throat, bring the mayhem hard, and not hang around long. I feel like some heavier firepower will be a part of this.

 

- Initial cadre leader: Hm, yes maybe. Will be easier to make him slowly change, or something else changing him and his Chapter, rather than be a bad guy but also hero type figure that I can't quite parse. This origin theory is hard, but pivotal to their character

 

- Homeworld culture: I'll need to think on this, but I like the idea and might keep it.

 

- Shamans: yes, this is what I had in mind. While of course wanting to go over the top and make the Chapter broken, I'd like these Shamans/Librarians/Stormseers/need a new name to be pretty terrifying and one of the Chapter's definite strengths.

 

- Astartes interactions: Yes, I can see them butting heads immediately and aggressively with the Templars, to the point that I can't even really imagine them fighting alongside them at all unless serious circumstances made it necessary. They would be diametrically opposed in some core beliefs, and neither would be afraid to be very vocal about it.

 

Why the Salamander choice? Can't quite figure out the specific choice there, though I'm not opposed to it. I guess I'm not married to them completely destroying a whole Chapter, and on review that does seem a bit much, yes. I want them dealing a crippling blow though, and the most significant part of this is the eating of another Chapter's geneseed - I want to use this device to show just how brutal and, I guess, evil they can be when they're fully roused. Maybe I can couch this in the handy dandy 40k go-to of "rumours remain unsubstantiated, but it is said that when X Chapter returned to the battlefield to retrieve their fallen, every set of Their brethren's geneseed was missing, and with the Stormkin's noted penchant for ritualistic cannibalism..."?? One way or another though, I'd like to keep this idea in some form.

 

On other relations though, they can't be at loggerheads with everyone, so that will need work... everyone needs allies...

 

- Squad/designation markings etc: Bleh, I've always hated the idea of "tainting" a Chapter's colours with squad-specific helmet, trim, chest aquila etc colours. Just always feels like it throws the desired aesthetic off, to me. I typically have in mind a squad designation (typical upward facing arrow for tactical, crossed arrows assault, explosion or inverted V for devastators) on right shoulder pad in either white or black depending on background, with the squad number over the top in the opposite colour, then company number on knee... I can get away with this right?

 

Although this does bring up the question of organisation to begin with - I like the idea of semi-independent Brotherhoods like the Scars, but that then brings up another over-arching question; why? Waging war like this requires a reason, and just saying "I like Brotherhoods because reasons" is the starting at the end and trying to work backwards thing that I wanted to avoid. Maybe I should think more on their original purposes for creation and objectives early on, and how they shaped the Chapter's structure and style of organisation, before deciding this??

 

- Chapter name: I actually quite like Desolators! :) The more I think on it, the more I'm happy to lose the Storm element. I'll need to ponder more on this, but this is a good direction...

 

===

 

How does this seem to be shaping up? Im feeling much more confident with direction at this stage. I'm going to try to polish up the ideas I had early on that I mentioned about some customs and traditions etc.

 

+edit+

A quickie google search turned up these images that I like as potential Chapter symbols (minus the gloss and extraneous writing and garbage around them):

[http]http://st2.depositphotos.com/4474137/6616/v/950/depositphotos_66168921-stock-illustration-respect-skull-lightning-graphic.jpg [/http]

[http]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KXFM06E?psc=1&SubscriptionId=AKIAJ6GZIBPZDP5SLRSQ&tag=halloweendoor-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00KXFM06E [/http]

[Zhiv]

He's a fast one! Appreciate the speedy reply

I work as an IT support in a scientific institute. When nothing is broken, I have nothing to do.

- Slavic leaning, Khylsts etc:

Not going to touch this besides noting that it's obviously an interesting angle to explore. You know, besides cannibal cossacks and keeping in mind that Emperor ought to be seen as a man as marines are mostly secular. I'll note that you can still have chaplains even if Ecclesiarchy doesn't like you, you'll just need to figure out an alternative rosarius much like the Wolf Priest's have. And if Space Wolves can flip a bird to the Adeptus Ministorum, your chapter can do that as well.

- Horses/bikes: I don't see the horse theme heavily, and as Astartes I see them more in Speeders actually, as it allows them to bring greater destructive potential. As much as they're swift hunters and all about the subtler arts of war in many ways, when they do commit to a proper assault I think they'll really go for the throat, bring the mayhem hard, and not hang around long. I feel like some heavier firepower will be a part of this.

Very fair. Just an obvious question to ask, and perhaps something to address when you eventually write the bit about how Stormkin/Desolators wage war. Scouts dropped behind the enemy lines using Land Speeder Storm definitely seem to fit the image.

- Initial cadre leader: Hm, yes maybe. Will be easier to make him slowly change, or something else changing him and his Chapter, rather than be a bad guy but also hero type figure that I can't quite parse. This origin theory is hard, but pivotal to their character

Not like you are in a hurry. Consider him having been captain of 10th company and thus having penchant for ~black ops.

Shamans: yes, this is what I had in mind. While of course wanting to go over the top and make the Chapter broken, I'd like these Shamans/Librarians/Stormseers/need a new name to be pretty terrifying and one of the Chapter's definite strengths.

Souleaters / Soulseers / Bloodseers somesuch?

Why the Salamander choice? Can't quite figure out the specific choice there, though I'm not opposed to it.

They are the goody good guys, living among civil population on their cosy homeworld and always looking after civilians. If you want humane antagonist, they fit the bill.

- I want to use this device to show just how brutal and, I guess, evil they can be when they're fully roused. Maybe I can couch this in the handy dandy 40k go-to of "rumours remain unsubstantiated, but it is said that when X Chapter returned to the battlefield to retrieve their fallen, every set of Their brethren's geneseed was missing, and with the Stormkin's noted penchant for ritualistic cannibalism..."?? One way or another though, I'd like to keep this idea in some form.

You can have them devour a company full of marines, which is a) a crippling blow won't make your guys sound like the penultimate killing machines. Going the way of rumors is of course recommended and that was how most the original GW IA articles were written. Though, perhaps geneseed and brains/heart? Following the shamanistic beliefs and making it even more gruesome. Though that would likely warrant 'Mechanicus is paying extra attention to their genetic tithes' and 'Inquisition is keeping an eye on them.' kinda clauses tossed in somewhere.

-

Squad/designation markings etc: Bleh, I've always hated the idea of "tainting" a Chapter's colours with squad-specific helmet, trim, chest aquila etc colours. Just always feels like it throws the desired aesthetic off, to me. I typically have in mind a squad designation (typical upward facing arrow for tactical, crossed arrows assault, explosion or inverted V for devastators) on right shoulder pad in either white or black depending on background, with the squad number over the top in the opposite colour, then company number on knee... I can get away with this right?

Yes, have fun with your transfers though. Though I'll note that grey armor with yellow pauldrons will make your marines look a lot like Space Wolves. On the other hand, grey is easy and fun to paint.

How does this seem to be shaping up? Im feeling much more confident with direction at this stage. I'm going to try to polish up the ideas I had early on that I mentioned about some customs and traditions etc.

I guess you could start writing an article soonish. You might want to decide the name / shaman title and perhaps touch the subject of organisation before you delve too deeply in that. Having 4th company captain do something heroic... while later noting that you don't have companies is bit silly.

A quickie google search turned up these images that I like as potential Chapter symbols (minus the gloss and extraneous writing and garbage around them):

Soemthing like this?

[Draakur]

Haven't forgotten this Zhiv, just very caught up, but I'll say one thing quickly - I was overjoyed at your presentation of the rough Chapter icon I'd suggested, thanks for the effort man! Unfortunately I then went back and looked at the Destroyers and noticed I'd actually come full circle in my thinking, to a concept almost exactly the same as their symbol, minus the bars on the sides, without realising... Lol.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/c/c4/Destroyers_Badge.png/revision/latest?cb=20160228003230

You'd think after being interested in them that much that sort of memory lapse would be impossible. Not quite sure how it happened, but yes, I guess that means I'm thinking of something more like the other one I suggested for now

[Draakur]

Ok! So after my next round of thinking...

 

===

 

- Chaplains: yep yep. Easy enough. They'll have positive/productive working relationships of course, but the Ecclesiarchy will not be one of them. I'm imagining a situation where the Ecclesiarchy would have reason to order them attacked or brought to heel for some reason, but just in time, suspicious circumstances come about where an important convoy of theirs is brought under attack, and the Desolators suddenly appear to save the day. This conveniently places them in the Chapter's debt and leads to the censuring activities or investigations being called off... all assumptions and accusations being unprovable, of course...

 

- Warfare and initial cadre leader: I'm beginning to think a specialist scout squad is in order, or perhaps (this is probably better) just make it that moving beyond scouts to full battle brother rank is more an option than an inevitability. The vast majority take the step, but some do not, seeing their strengths lying in the other areas the Chapter excels at and remaining in the scout capacity as specialists forever, with this seen as just as valuable to the Chapter, not any form of dishonour.

 

Cadre leader aside, I'm putting together the reasoning for their creation to begin with, and want to start the theme of premonition and foretellings here. Something about the Imperial tarot continuously turning up the sons of Jaghatai as the lineage when the cards were consulted on who to use, over and over, but with other cards alongside the readings foretelling doom and tragedy, dark portents etc. making it somewhat confusing. With the dark streak in them and the sometimes questionable overall impact they've had on the Imperium since their inception, scholars still debate whether this was the correct choice for geneseed for the Chapter, etc...

 

- Shamans: Soulseers I like, but still feels like I'm not quite there. This will need work. May need to go in a different direction entirely for this name I think.

 

- Salamander choice: Ah ok, understood. They'd certainly be on the opposite end of the spectrum in many ways. Certainly an option. Though I guess I need to be careful of the name-dropping issue? And yes I'd have them eat the brains and the heart as well. A company seems enough, still a big blow to a Chapter and more than enough to earn them a lifelong issue with them and their (rumoured) descendants.

 

- Colours/transfers etc: I can deal with this. I likely won't do enough of them to constitute an army so this doesn't worry me too much, I've not actually played the game in aaaages and any modelling done will be more for my own enjoyment. I'll finalise and post the colour scheme next post :tu:

 

- General ideas: The final trial (working title The Ravaging). Aspirants who have passed all training and previous trials and are ready to be fully inducted will be sent out into one of the planet's incredibly large and violent lightning storms for a day and a night. The initiates are struck by lightning dozens of times throughout this ordeal, expected to remain conscious and upright throughout, and will be riddled with scars by the end of the process (look up Lichtenberg Figures). Those that survive will be healed and cleansed of all of these scars, but choose one to retain; this will be externally mimicked on their armour, and they are now 'Stormstruck' (generic term used when referring to battle brothers of the Chapter), bearing the marking as an identifier, and symbolic of succeeding in the final rite of passage and being worthy of the Chapter's ranks.

 

===

 

And some doubts: I feel I might be trying to pick too many cherries from too many trees here - in my head I get confused about direction at times as I find myself wanting them to be everything at once (both full of esoteric beliefs and mysticism but also ruthless pragmatists, both sly and cunning but also brutal in execution, fiercely independent but also blindly, unquestionably beholden to the Chapter's seers and their whims and visions, etc).

 

Do people think these lines can be walked effectively?? I have my doubts.

 

I'm wondering if, for clarity's sake, I need to decide between the various themes I've introduced over time, and since I struggle with this, to help I'll be delving further into the Slavic influence and seeing where that takes me...

[Zhiv]

Unfortunately I then went back and looked at the Destroyers and noticed I'd actually come full circle in my thinking, to a concept almost exactly the same as their symbol, minus the bars on the sides, without realising... Lol.

Derp. <.<

- Chaplains: yep yep. Easy enough. They'll have positive/productive working relationships of course, but the Ecclesiarchy will not be one of them. I'm imagining a situation where the Ecclesiarchy would have reason to order them attacked or brought to heel for some reason, but just in time, suspicious circumstances come about where an important convoy of theirs is brought under attack, and the Desolators suddenly appear to save the day. This conveniently places them in the Chapter's debt and leads to the censuring activities or investigations being called off... all assumptions and accusations being unprovable, of course...

With the librarians having spiritual role, do the chaplains take some other roles, such as the role of chronicler / story teller and inspire their brethren with stories of past deeds in Space Wolfesque fashion? I mean, chronicles are traditionally responsibility of the Librarium but if the Librarians take some of the Chaplains' duties, then perhaps the Chaplain's take some of the Librarians' responsibilities?

- Warfare and initial cadre leader: I'm beginning to think a specialist scout squad is in order, or perhaps (this is probably better) just make it that moving beyond scouts to full battle brother rank is more an option than an inevitability. The vast majority take the step, but some do not, seeing their strengths lying in the other areas the Chapter excels at and remaining in the scout capacity as specialists forever, with this seen as just as valuable to the Chapter, not any form of dishonour.

Space Wolves kinda do this already, so it's not unheard of. Not sure it's strictly necessary as you could mention that scouts are known for their savagery and long campaigns spent behind enemy lines. Perhaps savagery is something the Soulseers seek in the hopeful recruits.

Cadre leader aside, I'm putting together the reasoning for their creation to begin with, and want to start the theme of premonition and foretellings here. Something about the Imperial tarot continuously turning up the sons of Jaghatai as the lineage when the cards were consulted on who to use, over and over, but with other cards alongside the readings foretelling doom and tragedy, dark portents etc. making it somewhat confusing. With the dark streak in them and the sometimes questionable overall impact they've had on the Imperium since their inception, scholars still debate whether this was the correct choice for geneseed for the Chapter, etc...

This works, and of course the tarot could point at great danger at [chosen segmentum] where the chapter spends its time patrolling the space. Chose segmentum according to possible name drops / preferred foes. Eldar / Ork / human pirates ought to make a good arch enemy. Chaos doesn't care much about terror tactics after all.

- Salamander choice: Ah ok, understood. They'd certainly be on the opposite end of the spectrum in many ways. Certainly an option. Though I guess I need to be careful of the name-dropping issue? And yes I'd have them eat the brains and the heart as well. A company seems enough, still a big blow to a Chapter and more than enough to earn them a lifelong issue with them and their (rumoured) descendants.

Storm Giants are less of a name drop, and are known to be buddies with regular humans. Alternatively you could create DIY Salamanders successor for your fluff as that geneseed seems to come with Hug2 and Friendship-Magic genes. This would avoid obvious name drops.

- General ideas: The final trial (working title The Ravaging). Aspirants who have passed all training and previous trials and are ready to be fully inducted will be sent out into one of the planet's incredibly large and violent lightning storms for a day and a night. The initiates are struck by lightning dozens of times throughout this ordeal, expected to remain conscious and upright throughout, and will be riddled with scars by the end of the process (look up Lichtenberg Figures). Those that survive will be healed and cleansed of all of these scars, but choose one to retain; this will be externally mimicked on their armour, and they are now 'Stormstruck' (generic term used when referring to battle brothers of the Chapter), bearing the marking as an identifier, and symbolic of succeeding in the final rite of passage and being worthy of the Chapter's ranks.

I am getting some awkward Harry Potter imagery out of this. Survival trial in harsh environment is given, but in the name of earnest and honest feedback, getting struck by lighting dozens of times borders ludicrous. If you want a brand, you could have your Librarians apply it via hot poker or psychic powers (aspirant is expected to endure this without a flinch?).

And some doubts: I feel I might be trying to pick too many cherries from too many trees here - in my head I get confused about direction at times as I find myself wanting them to be everything at once (both full of esoteric beliefs and mysticism but also ruthless pragmatists, both sly and cunning but also brutal in execution, fiercely independent but also blindly, unquestionably beholden to the Chapter's seers and their whims and visions, etc).

Do people think these lines can be walked effectively?? I have my doubts.

Probably not all of them, but this is where you should probably start typing the backbone of the IA article, detail out the creation and beliefs of the chapter, review and finalize them. And then expand on based what you have there... and nothing else so that things remain consistent and the fluff isn't all over the place.

[Draakur]

Just quickly while I'm here, re: the trial, I hadn't realised that was how Harry Potter got that scar lol (though it obviously makes sense if I think about it for a quarter of a second). Very much appreciate the honesty of the feedback, grateful to have someone around willing to shoot straight with me.

 

Was there anything else specifically you didn't like about this though? If it's the lethality, the rates on lightning strike deaths are actually very very low, with most reports having it at about 10% of those struck; I figured with the enhanced physiques of the mostly-indoctrinated marines, copping a series of these usually non-lethal events might not be too high an expectation.

 

Also the scar wouldn't even closely resemble the old basic lightning bolt symbol (I'll actually provide a link this time - Lichtenberg Figures: https://www.google.com.au/amp/twistedsifter.com/2012/03/lichtenberg-figures-lightning-strike-scars/amp/), though that would be hilariously awful. Some of these almost look like semi-tribal designs, or could be manipulated to do so.

 

Does any of this change your mind/help the idea? Or just no bueno?

[Olis]

In regard to the trial, perhaps rather than a test of endurance, it could be a test of resourcefulness? Just get from point A to point B. That's the goal. How it is done is entirely up to the aspirant, although it would be likely that each is struck once or twice navigating through a landscape lit by lightning and heralded by thunder. Therefore, you still have the inherent danger of crossing a storm-wracked land but now being struck by lightning is an occupational hazard, rather than being the point of the exercise. Still dangerous, and still puts an aspirant's constitution to the test. :tu:

[Draakur]

Yep ok... I like it. It'll be through mountains that dip down into and are surrounded by swampland, which will make for plenty of trouble. As I put up above, the aspirants will choose to keep one scar from the strikes during the ordeal that they then mimic in paint externally on their armour as an identifying mark - not canning the idea means I get to keep this, too.

[Zhiv]

Yep ok... I like it. It'll be through mountains that dip down into and are surrounded by swampland, which will make for plenty of trouble. As I put up above, the aspirants will choose to keep one scar from the strikes during the ordeal that they then mimic in paint externally on their armour as an identifying mark - not canning the idea means I get to keep this, too.

 

And you could actually have marines with clean skin as some might manage without getting struck. Question is, would they be deemed blessed... or cursed?

[Sticklefront]

There's a lot of really cool stuff here, and I'll make sure to give you some proper feedback when I can (aka, not at work!)

 

I think that the Desolators is a ridiculously cool name. Sounds freakin' hardcore, and leaves the enemy in no doubt about what these brain eating space-savages are gonna do to your planet!

 

I'll go into the detail that you deserve as soon as I can, but initially I think that you'd best served by "trimming the tree", so to speak. Pick a couple of really key points that give your Chapter their character, and develop them really clearly. For example... They ritualise the eating of their defeated foe, ritually scar themselves as a mark of honour, and go to war according to the visions of the warrior-shaman that make up their Librarius.

 

Each facet can be expanded on, but by deciding on a smaller set of core values you may find that the overall "flavour" is stronger as a result.

[Draakur]

Thanks mate, appreciate it.

 

Agreed, cutting it back is the aim. And on that note (I'll steal a bit from your writing if that's ok ):

 

- go to war according to the visions/foretellings of their warrior-shamans

- ritualistic cannibalism and it's symbolism in their belief system

- older Cossack/generalised Slavic influence

 

The scarring will be influential in their aesthetic, but I'm happy not to spend much time on it in terms of delving into the impact on tradition/culture. Everything else will revolve around the above :tu: