Learn2Eel Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Mind Wrath + Novas and the -1 to-hit aura for him AND his unit + Invisibility is what makes him broken. Everything else? Nah. Take those two things away from him and he's still over-powered for his points (seriously, just try and compare him to Lorgar Transfigured, I never thought I would feel sorry for Lorgar!) but doesn't truly break the game. Currently, he's the mechanical equivalent of Instant Death to vehicle-based armies, even aerial ones as Novas still hit flyers! While the Novas he has access to don't ignore 3+ or better armour saves, that's still a lot of hits on units that wound on 2s and any 6s you roll will mean dead models regardless of what they are. If you want AP2 Destroyer hits, Biomancy has you covered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4650008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceofAllTradez Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Now let's say Magnus is in a challenge with Russ and there is a sister of silence with ex oblivio technically in base contact with Magnus would that not allow Magnus to cast or does it not work since the two are in a challenge? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4650889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Magnus is incredibly broken right now. Forgeworld Nerfs incoming. :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4650984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 It would still work; challenges only disallow allocation of wounds until the last model, not immune to everything out of the challenge Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4650993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceofAllTradez Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Ahh interesting so as long as you can stick russ with some sos then he should be able to kill him with ease Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4651017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athrawes Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I agree that Invisibility and Mind wrath interaction with Novas is silly. But I don't think Magnus' -1 to hit is any worse than Russ' "-1, 1st turn -2 2nd turn in base combat" rule. It means that Space marines cannot hit him at all, ever after the first turn of combat. Cap his -1 to hit at 6's (Russ has to get this to), and State that Mind wrath only effects Pure witchfires (Not beams or Novas) and Magnus should be absolutely fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4651046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Slightly annoying the only real way of combating him is sisters of silence which are solely limited to Loyalist only, I get the thousand sons are traitors themselves but in actual tournaments and games its quite possible for traitor vs traitor matches to happen especially when you play a legion that has units which arre solely limited to traitors. would be nice if there was some sort of traitor equilvant . maybe when angelus comes out there will be some anti psyker stuff in there that traitors can access orsome sort of actual agents of the warmaster like a anti psyker thing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4651056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 They did mention assassins in the pipeline , both sides had their own versions of those . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4651068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceofAllTradez Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I agree they both should be caped at 6+ but keep in mind space marines can't hit him if they're in base contact for a 2nd round of combat. Most of the times he's going to kill anyone in base contact first round. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4651335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Honestly, just rolling Sanctic on him is pretty amazing: Banishment is situational, but hey... Lorgar, right? Gate of Infinity is strong as hell Hammerhand means S10 AP1 in Combat, aww yiss. Sanctuary is 3++ on himself and a 2++ on his Raptora Sekmet Cataphractii... Who re-roll 1s on the turn they Deep strike in the Crimson King RoW Purge Soul is crap, and the one you don't want to get... But hey, maybe you'll snipe a sargeant or finish a guy off. Cleansing Flame is just Sunburst but.... Better... Vortex is a D Vortex... Just let it run WILD. So yeah, that covers combat, AoE, sniping, mobility and defenses all in one discipline Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4651381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I thought he was disallowed Sanctic? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4651575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceofAllTradez Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I thought he was disallowed Sanctic? No malefic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4651712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Slightly annoying the only real way of combating him is sisters of silence which are solely limited to Loyalist only, I get the thousand sons are traitors themselves but in actual tournaments and games its quite possible for traitor vs traitor matches to happen especially when you play a legion that has units which arre solely limited to traitors. would be nice if there was some sort of traitor equilvant . maybe when angelus comes out there will be some anti psyker stuff in there that traitors can access orsome sort of actual agents of the warmaster like a anti psyker thing Eh, I don't know, who goes to play 30K tournaments? 99% of events I see have a strong narrative element and usually pit Loyalists vs. Traitors. 30K and tournament shouldn't be words that show up in the same sentence. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4651736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 1. Not all primarchs are broken. Normal characters stand no chance against them, and most of them can kill vehicles just fine too. I'm not saying them being broken is a bad thing. I'm just saying moaning about Magnus being a top tier psyker is as dumb as complaining that Alpharius can spawn out of a Tactical Legionary's chest cavity and hit you with an Instant Death spear. Primarch's are meant to be game-changing characters that rarely die or lose fights. Hence my suggestion you limit their use appropriately. 2. Fluff is fluff, rules are rules. Bread is bread, flowers are flowers. a) You don't have to take discipline mtching arcana. You can have raptora biomancer or divinator. Then you just harness on 4+ not 3+. b ) Limiting mount of psykers? How? 3 psykers - HQ + termintors and veterans who can purchase psychic brotherhood not counting legion specific units (one of which is underpriced ML2/2W terminators). Take pride of the Legion for army of psykers only. And no, I don't believe cult arcana is fine. Aside for raptora shield that makes storm shield legions look just stupid, And I don't believe that choosing arcana for each unit is balanced. Alpha legion just has to take one mutable tactic for every unit, which on some units is fine on others useless while TS can pick and choose. You don't have to, but its a meaningful choice because Telekinesis is easily the worst of the Cult associated disciplines. Again, as I mentioned earlier, that is going to add up a lot once you include all the Mastery purchasing. Sekhmet are fine, they have to get into melee to really do anything (unless you think bolters that re-roll to wound is gamebreaking). I think FW underpriced them so people would actually field them, and to offset the higher average cost of your HQ's and Elites. You can do that, but I actually think 'regular Legion but with a bit of extra psykers' is going to end up more powerful than going full psyker. Sisters of Silence are a thing now too, and Perils will randomly screw you (so will failing to cast powers, which is a distinct possibility if you're not leveraging the Cult bonus to cast). Do You feel the same way about scoria ? Yeah I do actually. Had quite a few games with him now. He's basically impossible to kill and slaps combat characters down even when he rolls poorly. FW made him because Primarchs roll over Mechanicum otherwise (Drakyak, Satarael and the generic Arch-Magi all lose horribly even to Praetors). So for non-Primarch matchups, I'm probably just gonna take more robots and a third cheap Domini to replace his HQ slot and points. I'd expect with Magnus they'll tone down Mind Wrath to only affect regular witchfires. 'Invisibility' is a core rules problem GW has to fix, it's broken regardless of who has it (its just as abusive on Lorgar). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4651783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 If you're rolling to get invis though, the rest of the powers are pretty crap, so there is a bright side. And while D bombs are bad, no one wants Belakor 2: 30k edition with Magnus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4651980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Of course he's broken! Has been that way since good ol' Russ crushed his spine over his knee in Tizca Batman style. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4652253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimm Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Honestly, just rolling Sanctic on him is pretty amazing: Banishment is situational, but hey... Lorgar, right? Lorgar doesn't have the daemon rule. Also I don't think he can role santic I think(maybe!?!?) one of the books (I think the last) says something along the lines of santic wasnt around in the heresy and cannot be used, malefic was only know to a few and blah blah blah only usable by models with the la word bearers. Is say that means he only had the original 5 tables to go with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4652317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learn2Eel Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Honestly, just rolling Sanctic on him is pretty amazing: Banishment is situational, but hey... Lorgar, right? Lorgar doesn't have the daemon rule. Also I don't think he can role santic I think(maybe!?!?) one of the books (I think the last) says something along the lines of santic wasnt around in the heresy and cannot be used, malefic was only know to a few and blah blah blah only usable by models with the la word bearers. Is say that means he only had the original 5 tables to go with. Magnus' rules specifically state he can use Sanctic Daemonology on top of the Cult-tied disciplines. Additionally, one of the Thousand Sons' Legiones Astartes rules details what psychic lores they can all access; they can use the same ones as Magnus. You can look at it this way; though normal 30K armies can't take Daemonology of either type, the Word Bearers get Malefic Daemonology and Thousand Sons get Sanctic Daemonology. It's just one of the perks of being highly psychic armies I guess Though the Sanctic Primaris isn't useful against Lorgar, it is useful against all the Daemon models you might see in a Word Bearers army! However, the Word Bearers do have a nasty anti-psyker Rite of War, so there's that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4652334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Yeah, I meant just the Word Bearer's in general :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4652379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen11 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 People mentioning alpharius in same thread as magnus, xD Weakest primarch in cc vs any other primarch(and yea, every primarch will kill any other non primarch model, so his id spear is not big deal vs most stuff), who doesn't even buff his army if he is in vehicle. It's funny when people try not to pretend that magnus is broken, because he might not get power he wants with 5 dices...I mean yea, he can always fail to cast, save or hit anything in combat, very very very unlikely but possible and in that very very very unlikely scenario he won't be broken,lol In 99.99999% other games he will be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4653505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I'll be rolling biomancy for him that's for sure :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4653896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Magnus' only limitation is the imagination of the controlling player. The opposing players will be horrinbly abused as the other player enjoys a side game by himself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4654017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Magnus' only limitation is the imagination of the controlling player. The opposing players will be horrinbly abused as the other player enjoys a side game by himself. That's a little exaggerating, especially since your Primarch is an insane slaughterhouse... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4654018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I don't see any point of playing Magnus in random pickup games (which don't even exist since unlike in 40K you actually have to arrange a match beforehand) unless you like trolling others around. As it is with everything else, have some discussion before it is done and it is better for both of you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4654019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Honestly, just rolling Sanctic on him is pretty amazing: Banishment is situational, but hey... Lorgar, right? Gate of Infinity is strong as hell Hammerhand means S10 AP1 in Combat, aww yiss. Sanctuary is 3++ on himself and a 2++ on his Raptora Sekmet Cataphractii... Who re-roll 1s on the turn they Deep strike in the Crimson King RoW Purge Soul is crap, and the one you don't want to get... But hey, maybe you'll snipe a sargeant or finish a guy off. Cleansing Flame is just Sunburst but.... Better... Vortex is a D Vortex... Just let it run WILD. So yeah, that covers combat, AoE, sniping, mobility and defenses all in one discipline Raptora caps at 3++, so its similar to mark of tzeentch from the chaos codex, even if you get sanctuary off then you would still get 3++, as raptora would not allow for it to go to 2++. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330717-is-magnus-the-red-horribly-broken/page/2/#findComment-4654417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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