Nicodemus Doloroso Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I'm hoping people more learned in the BA lore can help me out a bit with what the Sanguinor is supposed to be. The half-page blurb in the current codex just isn't giving me enough of an understanding to wrap my head around him. I'm also wondering how he could/should be incorporated into a successor chapter? I have a mind of make a Sanguinor model for my Angels Sorrowful but don't know how I ought to work him in fluff and modelling/paining wise. Ought I to field him simply as THE Sanguinor (i.e. the Blood Angel), or is there a way to do a successor "counts-as"? Thirdly, can I trouble people to post pictures of custom Sanguinors they've converted? I'm not completely sold on the GW model and would like to custom build one. I've seen the kitbash based off Nightbringer. That's pretty cool, but any tips on where I could get appropriate wings? This model is pretty ace: http://sciborminiatures.com/en_,shop.php?art=3097#i/2016/big/archangel_3_04.jpg any ideas on how he scales with GW models? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 As it stands now the Sanguinor is still a mystery. Nobody really knows what he is but there are some theories. Avatar of the Emperor, Part of Sanguinius Soul and Azkaellon empowered by Sanguinius just to name a few. Normally the Sanguinor is the Sanguinor no matter what Successor Chapter he appears in front of.However I'd expect GW to lift some of the mystery around him during the current 13th Black Crusade campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sans Mercy Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 If I may say it makes the GW model look like a total bozo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted February 11, 2017 Author Share Posted February 11, 2017 Yeah that guy looks dead 'ard. Where did you get the wings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sans Mercy Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Its the pegasus set from warhammer fantasy, the down turned set are Sanguinary Guard wings. Celestine and the Golden Host has allowed me to blow the dust off of this fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 The mystery surrounding him is honestly what makes him such an intriguing character. While we speculate we generate interest. If he had good rules you'd probably see him used a lot more. So far from codex and book descriptions I'm leaning more and more to psychic construct I.e. Manifestation of the psychic potential of the BA or the nascent greater daemon of Sanguinius. The way he's been described as hovering (without turbine noise) and emanating a golden aura. If they go with this I'm going to be very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 What do you see as the deficiencies of his rules? I've not used him, but on paper he seems like a decent beatstick. Dante is better for a small increase in price, to be sure, but the Sanguinor has some of the major things you'd want -- eternal warrior, Strength 5, 2+/4++, can fly ... gives a nice buff to nearby units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 What do you see as the deficiencies of his rules? I've not used him, but on paper he seems like a decent beatstick. Dante is better for a small increase in price, to be sure, but the Sanguinor has some of the major things you'd want -- eternal warrior, Strength 5, 2+/4++, can fly ... gives a nice buff to nearby units. For example that he is no IC so he has to fly around on his own while not being much more durable than a terminator...and we know how fast those die, no? Pretty easy to get 6 AP2 wounds through these days against T4. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durdle-durdle Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Yeah, his main problem is t4 3 woubds. Even if he were more survivable though, his damage output isnt amazing for nearly the cost of a land raider. 4 power sword attacks at s5? 5 at s6 on the charge? Its decent, don't get me wrong, but for his point cost, he dies too easy and just doesnt do enough. Maybe if he were an independent character and his aura was bigger and affected units (not models), i'd take him. Maybe if they gave him another wound or two and higher toughness. As is, he's overcosted by a good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 Good points. For the cost of 4 MB more Dante seems much better. I would probably run golden Host with Dante normally but I'll give Sanguinor a whirl for when I can't bring Lords in of War. Anybody seen any cool Sanguinor conversions lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 That's one of our issues I think. We are in a position where our only consistently competitive melee character is a lord of war. Lots of armies now have good AP2 at init melee options and as such not being able to use dante is a big issue (Valors Edge is an acceptable substitute but being strength 4 after the first round is an issue - just look at something like the visarch in terms of stuff we have to compete with) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 It would make sense if he was also T5 ... his aura being a 3+ invuln, get rid of the Iron Halo, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyros Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 In the beginning of the "Fall of Cadia", before the main prologue there is a text (with a background of the Eye of Terror) which I believe refers to Saint Celestine. Things written there give some insights on her, and I believe could be applied to the Sanguinor (assuming he 's not Azkaellon living in a batcave). I don't know if quoting is allowed. "...BEFORE SHE WAS CHOSEN, AND SHE WAS STILL A VESSEL OF FLESH AND BLOOD...""...THE DREAMER(Celestine?) AWAKENS IN THE WORLD THAT IS NO WORLD...""...SHE IS STILL WEARY. THE SCARS OF YESTERDAY HAVE YET TO HEAL...""...SHE KNOWS THE PRICE SHE WILL PAY. EACH TIME SHE JOURNEYS FROM THE WORLD THAT IS NO WORLD, SHE DOES SO DIMINISHED, A PIECE OF HER LOST FOREVER IN THE CACKLING VOID, A FEAST FOR THE DAMNED. ONE DAY SHE WILL SALLY FORTH, AND SHE WILL NOT RETURN....""...THE DREAMER KNOWS THERE IS NO OTHER. SHE IS ALONE; THE FIRST AND LAST OF A GRAND DESIGN NEVER REALIZED (the Emperor's?). THE FADING FRAGMENT OF A DREAM THAT WILL NEVER BE..." If the above stands as true, could it be that Celestine is unique as far as plain humans is concerned? Could the Sanguinor be another similar yet different project of the Emperor, him being not plain human but an Astartes or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durdle-durdle Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Its possible. I think its going to turn out to be some psychic manefestation of sanguinius. Personally, i hope its none of the main theories (sanguinius manefestation, azkellon, daemon of the emperor). Im hoping its something out of left field, if its ever revealed at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Before he was hit twice with the Nerf bat he had a 3++ that made him much more tanky as a non IC. And before the 6th ed forward power weapons nerf he was a close combat monster. The beef is Celestine being *SO* fluffy and amazing is absolutely an A-OK gripe with me. I really don't complain about our rules except for when it comes to the Sanguinor. I want to field him so terribly bad, and he be good. Examples in SoB he fells a Hive Flyrant by himself. In Angel's Blade he OHKOs a Lord of skulls, where a regular Sanguinary guard's Relic blade shatters against the Daemon engine's carapace//armor. I've been trying to think up a way to make him more fluffy for some homebrew rules. Especially after Celestine if I may be bold and post some thoughts on the topic: First and foremost make him T5, S6 base. He may Assault from deepstrike even outside of a formation and discounts the disordered charge when taken in the GH. His sword should be AP2 Armourbane, with the following special rule; Giant Killer; any roll of 6 to wound against a (G)MC in close combat counts as Instant Death. Savior of the Host, 12" bubble that Instead gives Fearless, Rampage & +1 attack to any models, he also gives FnP (6+) or +1 to any FnP rolls for Codex: Blood Angels. And can re-roll invulnerable saves of 1 when in close combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 First and foremost make him T5, S6 base. He may Assault from deepstrike even outside of a formation and discounts the disordered charge when taken in the GH. His sword should be AP2 Armourbane, with the following special rule; Giant Killer; any roll of 6 to wound against a (G)MC in close combat counts as Instant Death. Savior of the Host, 12" bubble that Instead gives Fearless, Rampage & +1 attack to any models, he also gives FnP (6+) or +1 to any FnP rolls for Codex: Blood Angels. And can re-roll invulnerable saves of 1 when in close combat. In light of the recent special character releases and depending on how strong Guillimans sword will be I'd even make his sword a D weapon tbh. Unlike Celestine he would be a close combat monster instead of an incredibly tanky utility character. So less buffs and more individual strength for himself. Let's not make him into a BA specific Celestine clone no matter how similar they might appear. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I wouldn't have a problem making his sword Strength D. But honestly I'm usually not big into over-the-top rules unless I'm making campaign Relics etc. as campaigns are completely different and tell a story, where most PUGs are just that games. I like the idea of the Sanguinor making the BA fight harder on the table, seeing as that's what they do in the fluff when he shows up. Even Dante bows to him! I feel that we could make him more individually oriented, but truthfully I find myself wanting so much more for the Sanguinor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I wouldn't have a problem making his sword Strength D. But honestly I'm usually not big into over-the-top rules unless I'm making campaign Relics etc. as campaigns are completely different and tell a story, where most PUGs are just that games. I like the idea of the Sanguinor making the BA fight harder on the table, seeing as that's what they do in the fluff when he shows up. Even Dante bows to him! I feel that we could make him more individually oriented, but truthfully I find myself wanting so much more for the Sanguinor. Me neither normally but D stuff is a thing and we can't dodge it forever. Last time someone wrote rules for BA and tried to not make it over the top we got the codex we now have just for the whole meta to get an incredible power boost after the Necron and Eldar codex leaving us behind. Also it's pretty much exactly as what he is described often...a titan killer. That being said my opinion is based around the assumption that we don't see Sanguinius come back. So the Sanguinor would be the BA equivalent to a primarch or other big stuff. Things could (and probably would) look totally different in a szenario with Sanguinius revived since I kinda doubt we will see both, Sanguinius and the Sanguinor, at the same time. But yeah it would be fitting for him to buff BA as well but he can't be everything....utility, combat monster and tanky....that's a mix that we will probably only see on Primarchs at Magnus point cost level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paikis Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I'd prefer Sanguinius to stay dead and have The Sanguinor as our Primarch equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I'd prefer Sanguinius to stay dead and have The Sanguinor as our Primarch equivalent. I'd be totally fine with both but if it's not Sanguinius coming back then it would require for The Sanguinor to develope some more character than just "hey i'm the big guy who teabags titans when you are in trouble" to make him really interesting for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 Any ideas where to get wings for a Sanguinor conversion at a decent price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Any ideas where to get wings for a Sanguinor conversion at a decent price? Eldar Scourge Wings. They look fantastic and aren't a stretch to make work! I think you can grab some off the web for next to nothing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 Any ideas where to get wings for a Sanguinor conversion at a decent price? Eldar Scourge Wings. They look fantastic and aren't a stretch to make work! I think you can grab some off the web for next to nothing! Perfect suggestion, thanks! I never even knew such creatures existed in the 40k line of miniatures. I don't think I've ever encountered a Dark Eldar army locally. Living in Canada, it's very difficult to find bitz, but I'll keep an eye on eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mapple Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Reaper miniatures do some metal wings sets that are good for various projects. Good casts. My WIP log has a Celestine conversion I did with 1 of the 4 sets that came in the packet. All slightly different sized and styled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 Reaper miniatures do some metal wings sets that are good for various projects. Good casts. My WIP log has a Celestine conversion I did with 1 of the 4 sets that came in the packet. All slightly different sized and styled. Thanks for the tip, I assume this is the pack that you got: https://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/Conversions/latest/03181 Dark Eldar Scourge wings will run me a little more (eBay sells a set of three of their wings for $17 + shipping or I found a shop in Europe that after currency conversion/shipping works out to about $10 for one set). I'm almost at the point that buying a box of Scourges for $30 (a pretty reasonably priced box) is the way to go and then sell the unused bitz myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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