Sculder Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Hello all, longtime lurker back after a break due to work I am returning to our local tournament scene though I'm baffled at what works nowadays with guard and what not, I used to be able to hold my own with a CAD sprinkled with some FW goodies but FW isn't allowed anymore in Tournament Play and with the nerf to grenades in assault my veteran squads aren't reliable anymore to take down the big nasties, so lately I've been wrecked by all those formation lists, I will face Magnus, Centstar with knights, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult, Admech and Eldar. So any advice about the formations for guard that work would be appreciated at the 1850 pts level I also plan on playing my own Knight Warden but after that no idea or should I drop the Knight altogether because it's too expensive for what it brings (was thinking of using the gatling gun to soften up targets and as a melee reaction to all those deathstars and cult ambushes What do the rest of the officers of our glorious guard think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallarn Commander Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 While most IGers would agree that our codex is a mid or bottom tier dex these days, I love bringing my guard to tournaments. I lose much of the time against all those top tournament contenders you mention. However, there are 3 things that help me do decently at tournaments. First, plenty of other people bring mid or bottom tier armies to tournaments too. Not everyone wants or can afford the latest cool kid codex. With Swiss Style matchups, after game 1 I'm usually relegated to the lower tier tables and playing against armies other than Tau, Eldar, Admech, Necrons, genestealer cult, and demi company space marines. This is where I go up against Nids, chaos marines, orks, Sisters, other guard, dark eldar, harlies, non Decurion space marines, etc. I'm on an even footing against these lists. In addition, I've noticed that my blob lists tend to do better than my non blob lists. Some opponents just can't deal with tons of troopers. For example, knights hate being tied down and forced to stomp fearless conscripts for 2 or so turns (keep the priest or commissar waaay at the back if this happens since stomp attacks can go pretty far back). I've been running a lot of 4 blob Tallarn lists lately (2 squads of 30 conscripts and 2 infantry platoons with 35 troopers) and I push forward aggressively with the blobs to gain board control. I then back up the 800 to 900 points of blobs with various and sundry depending on what I ferl like bringing. I might bring 9-15 sentinels and some rough riders if I'm running a recon themed list or I'll bring 2-3 chimeras with plasma vets/plasma CCS and 2-3 heavy support tanks if I'm running a more combined arms list. This supporting element varies greatly based on what I feel like bringing. Also, I've found my plasma heavy lists tend to do better than my lists with less plasma. At 1850, I can usually bring 12+ plasma guns and at least 2-3 plasma/executioner cannons on armored sentinels, Russ sponsons, or Executioners. In summary, I lose a lot but I can still do decently (my paint scores often keep me at the middle rankings overall) because of: 1. swiss style pairings--let the uber lists play each other on the top boards. Plus, in my experience, the people in the back room on the bottom half tend to be more slightly cheerful and better sportsmen as well--the games at the top tables can get a bit too serious. 2. board control with hordes of troopers-- it really can be hard for some opponents with casual lists to get midfield board control 3. plasma for some reason works best for me in helps whittling down opponents. Good luck! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4654075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 As Tallarn said we're not near the top of the pile, but you can still do well :) The core strengths of the Guard are still numbers and fire power, so keeping your unit count up is always a good plan. A lot of the latest and greatest units don't fare so well against lots of cheaper units where they are overkill. You're always playing the meta in some way or form anyway, so it's not a bad strategy to employ :P I like to keep units as cheap as possible, a good number of troopers to protect the tanks always helps, as opponents often struggle to deal with them quickly enough. What sort of lists are you thinking of running? That's the most important question :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4654378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanlee Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I tend to run a msu mech list and it does ok not top tier but can be solid Wyverns are a must unit I feel just so good for there points I would allways run them I don't find russes to be worth there points at all but the meta I play in does not struggle to kill heavy armour your meta might be diffrent Vendettas are a solid option to if you have them The big question is what type of list do you want to run ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4654745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sculder Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 Well, I used to be able to hold my own with my lists before the change to ETC and the FAQ, I used to run Artillery lists but those are banned because of ETCrules banning FW units and now I'm at a loss (my pask and mech lists tend to go horribly wrong because tanks are like paper in fact paper is stronger, blobs are just removed entirely never thought I saw the day when someone could remove a 50man blob in 1 turn of shooting with only two or three units) unfortunately nobody in our competitive tournaments brings anything else then Tier1 armies anymore. Even in casual play you see the shift from having fun to wrecking your opponent so hard he never comes to the club again, It used to be fun until we started following ETCstyle rules.( No flair for fluff and their own rulelawyering is just awfull, but if I want to play I have to accept it seems-) thx for all the advice, seems I should just revert back to the old school guard way drown them in bodies and plasma then :) and Tallarn commander about nr 1 yeah I know what you mean I always disliked the ones who suck out the fun for the rest with their behaviour.... small question how do you get 35 man blobs since squads come with 10 man.... or are you talking about the renegade version? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4654779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanlee Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Yeah guard is not in a good spot at the moment I played at Caledonia uprising in January and it was using the new etc rules pack which seemed to favour msu armys with the scoring so you could try and just play the mission? Flood the bored with cheap fast units? 35 man blob platoon command squad and three squads? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4654792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sculder Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 since when can you blob up the platoon command squad? they don't have the rule, and I always play the missions since killing the enemy isn't that easy with all those lovely 2+ rerollable saves out there :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4654795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanlee Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 since when can you blob up the platoon command squad? they don't have the rule, and I always play the missions since killing the enemy isn't that easy with all those lovely 2+ rerollable saves out there :p My mistake I thought the platoon command squad had the rule as well I don't run blob squads as I don't think there good at all Don't really know what to suggest guard are not a good torney army with out forgeworld to help out Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4654800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sculder Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 haha np man could be I'm wrong as well had it happen before with misprints in a codex, never a commissar around to tell us what to think and do right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4654810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I could tell you what to think and do if you'd like, but I'm not sure it'd help :P If you're up against the flowing Gandalf beard lists then you're going to have an uphill battle yes, though Guard isn't alone there. On the other hand Guard have never been top tier so that's not why you're playing ;) That's why I said first to look to what type of list you'd want to play and then try and make it the best you can :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4654839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sculder Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 hehe any help is appreciated WarriorFish, the fun part is our resident tauplayer hasn't won a match against me in 2 years and he brings some cheese to the tournamentgames And isn't every battle the guard fights an uphill battle ;) I was thinkering with an Emperor's Wrath artillery company (2 bassies, 1 wyvern, deathstrike, company commander with volkos cane (the one where you only fail orders etc on a doulbe 6 within 6inch) a cad with Lord Commy (goes in unit , 2 infantry platoons (3 squads blobbed up with priest and flamers for unit a and unit b 3 squads with missile's blobbed up with Lord Commy), a vendetta, A knight Warden and a Culexus assassin I'll let you know how it went have a game planned on wednesday against our resident Dark Eldar/eldar player to test our lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4654926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Emperor's Wrath is a good way to run arty (I should do it one day!), as orders makes a big difference to effectiveness, the infantry should help you keep them alive. Remember to have plenty on the table to prevent deep strike issues. That's why I like to add Vets with melta for some reliable counter assault. Knights always help a force out, but they're not one man armies and need support - but will make for a fearsome addition to your counter attack elements :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4654945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sculder Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 well game happened last night, got tabled on turn 3 by his eldar cheese, my list was utter garbage it seemed so back to the drawing board xd Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4657774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 If he was running one of the stronger Eldar lists/styles then yes, that would be a difficult battle. Much depends on other factors too such as terrain and the dice gods of course, so against such a list anything bad is only magnified :confused: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4657901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Krash Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Any tips on guard vs Wrathknight? Even Imperial Knights get wrecked by them. Krash Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4657909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 For Guard - spam as many high Strength shots as you can... otherwise a fearless blob to tie them up in combat is an option? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4657955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero88 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 From what I hear psychic shriek is a good method too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4658024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I've taken out the wraithknight/lord/guard list with punisher pask and plasmacutioner with some plasma/melta vets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330907-help-for-tournament/#findComment-4658413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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