Make Destroyer Squads Good

[jgascoine011]

Seriously, they have such and awesome name and awesome fluff, but my god their rules make them worthless.

 

This is what i would love to see done to them to make them good and reflect their fluff.

 

 

1) Rad grenades....seriously, why do they not already have these.

2) Any model can replace both their bolt pistols for a pair of lucifex pistols

3) Any model can take a irridiation cleanser

4) 1 in 5 can take a irridiation engine

 

I also think that they should have a rule where no character can join them except for the mortrait as they are such outcasts within legions.

 

 

This would make them incredibly powerful at erasing infantry units, but very vulnerable to enemy shooting and useless vs tanks.

And finally, this awesome (in fluff) unit will be taken

 

[lokkorex]

Agree, the fact that all the legions forbidden weaponry are supposed to be handled by these somehow translating into twin bolt pistols and a 1 in 5 rad missile launchers is quite disappointing.

[Marshal Loss]

Destroyers do have rad grenades.

 

Irradiation weapons would be sick, but then nobody would ever take the missiles. I'd like the missiles to permanently effect (or at least for a turn) a unit they wound with -1T, not accumulative. I do agree with both of you though - for horrifically proscribed weapons, they don't seem very well equipped. A free phosphex bomb on the sergeant would be a start.

 

Maybe artificer armour for the whole squad, to represent them needing specially designed suits to withstand the radiation?

 

Real pity that FW hasn't changed them, they're incredibly popular models - people really want to buy them, I don't understand why they didn't sit down and try to work something out rather than ignoring them completely in the last red book. Even a points reduction would have been a start.

[Cryptix]

Honestly, I would be all over them if they could all buy hand flamers, plasma pistols, or Volkite Serpentas.

[1ncarnadine]

100% agree with Marshal Loss. They need to change the Rad-phage rule to make it not quite as useless. I've been saying for a while that it should be closer to the Rad Grenade effect but with a shooting attack. Something like the targeted unit has -1T that shooting phase if they're shot with a Rad Missile, or maybe if they take a wound. Could take it or leave it for affecting Instant Death threshold, I think that would have to be played around with. Could even just be for the next unit that attacks that target, I don't know.

 

I don't know about artificer armour on the whole squad, but maybe Hardened Armour like the Breachers have, or a special rule that lets them re-roll failed saves from Fleshbane and Poison.

[Marshal Loss]

100% agree with Marshal Loss. They need to change the Rad-phage rule to make it not quite as useless. I've been saying for a while that it should be closer to the Rad Grenade effect but with a shooting attack. Something like the targeted unit has -1T that shooting phase if they're shot with a Rad Missile, or maybe if they take a wound. Could take it or leave it for affecting Instant Death threshold, I think that would have to be played around with. Could even just be for the next unit that attacks that target, I don't know.

 

I don't know about artificer armour on the whole squad, but maybe Hardened Armour like the Breachers have, or a special rule that lets them re-roll failed saves from Fleshbane and Poison.

 

Yeah you're more on the money there, I was just attempting to think of things out of thing air that might justify their price tag. :P

[bluntblade]

Bolt pistols always befuddled me. My fluff image of them is rad-missiles, chem flamers and so on.

[Riot Earp]

I've build myself some blood angel destroyers.
They wound marines on 2s with their radgrenades.
I would either embark them in an dreadclaw assaulting a turn later if it survives or put jump packs on them and let them down with the day of relevation rite of war. I know they are expensive as but i like their style.

http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag185/Slaughter3000/30k/IMG_20170211_114304_zpsduq7a5uq.jpg

[apologist]

I'd be very happy to see some changes to Destroyers – they're such a cool concept, but I'm not sure the 'scorched earth' idea translates to the way they're presented in the rules or in the models.

 

While I like the dual pistols idea and models, I'm not sure it really fits Destroyers. Similarly with the jump packs – while cool, it's not what I envisaged when I read the background.

 

With the proviso that any modifications should take into account the Legion Tactical squad (the second a specialist unit is better at 'general' stuff, that's a problem), I'd personally like to see them rethought from the ground-up and given a role as mid-ranged monster hunters – e.g. lots of low rate of fire, high AP fleshbane weaponry and equipment. It's a gap in the Legion list.

 

More conservatively, I'd like to see the basic weapons altered. Dual pistols should remain an option, but I'd prefer to see something like a maxim bolter as their standard sidearm, though that's mainly for aesthetics than any tabletop role. I'd also like the options expanded more broadly for squads without jump packs – give them some reason not to take 'em (beyond the points saving) like access to irad cleansers, chem weaponry, some form of photon rifle between a gauntlet and thruster, or similar 'banned' stuff.

[Jimm]

I'd settle for them all to have volkite pistols with an upgrade option for double chem hand flamers with rending or something. Grav pistol would also be an interesting option have 1 shot each but haywire so they have an AT load out.

 

That would at least make them fun if nothing else.

[Farseer Anath'lan]

Irad-shell bolt pistols-all targets being shot by a weapon with this rule suffers -1 Toughness against the shooting attack (like the Iron Hands, but inverted-only applies to the Destroyers bolt pistol shots).

Tainted aura-all models in same combat as Destroyers suffer -1 Initiative and Weapon Skill. (applies to friendlies as well-all bar Moritat)

[em_en_oh_pee]

Irad-cleansers at 1 per 5 models. I think going for other Rad stuff treads too heavily on AdMech uniqueness. 

Why not a Grenade Launcher w/ Frag, Krak and Rad? That would be nifty. 

They also totally need Bio-Corrosive rounds for their bolt pistols. That sounds Destroyer-y. Give them a Rotor Cannon option too, because why not? 

 

Add all this and make the added Marines to the squad +14pt and scrap that +75pt for Jump Packs. Make it a basic 3pt/model upgrade! That makes your base squad of 10 dudes with just jump packs come in at a lowly 250pt (compare to 10-man Assault Squad for 175 for 10 dudes). That is like basically paying 7.5pt per model for Rad Grenades and an extra Bolt Pistol.

 

Right now, the base 10-man Destroyer squad with jump packs costs an absurd 325pt! Why run them ever at that crazy price? FW needs to errata them badly. I was so disappointed when the red book hit and they didn't knock their price any.

[K3nn3rs]

Some great ideas on here - such a shame that such a fluffy (presumably as the heresy takes holds this unit would see more use as previously restricted weapons are unleashed) can't be used in even semi competitive lists.

 

Someone with me time and knowledge then me should start a thread that allows feedback/ suggestions for all the underused/ over costed units. Following the changes to DG/ SoH/ EC im convinced FW listen to some of the better, more balanced suggestions. I feel these updates are all the more desperately needed following the continued power creep seen with the mechanicum and TS and SW.

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

Given that the fluff indicates that the destroyers are the marines who ignore the Geneva conventions that ban NBC weaponry, I would like to see them in three different flavors: nuclear, biological and chemical. Allow me to elaborate:

 

Nuclear would be pretty much as is, although I would do something with the bolt pistols and the rad missiles. The idea that they would hit a unit with a -1 T for the rest of the phase seems reasonablish, although it would of course be a heavy nerf to the 2 wound terminators that some legions have as plasma would ID them. Maybe -1 T that does not affect the ID threshold? Would mean the unit is easier to wound with small caliber weaponry, but wouldn't result in plasma murdering everything and everyone. I would also like the nuclear destroyers to be the only ones that have actual (although limited, destroyers are supposed to be anti-personnel) anti-tank capabilities (maybe a once per match mininuke missile alongside their typical rad missiles?). Their special weapon would remain the rad missile launcher and they would be the only destroyers that have the rad grenades.

 

Biological would be the guys with the virus weapons, so they would need to absolutely murder infantry compared to the other destroyer types. Give these guys poison and large blasts to account for the rapid spread of biological weaponry, but don't make the poison too strong to avoid Mechanicum monstrous creatures from being too devastated. I know there is usually something fleshy in their constructs, but they should still be relatively defended from viruses. Instead give these guys the good AP values as you only need a small gap somewhere for the virus to leak in (as detailed in the BL books that talk about the virus bombing of Istvaan III). Maybe their weaponry should have an ability to cause multiple wounds? Their special weapon would be a grenade launcher with the biological weaponry. I am not sure what their grenades should be like, but maybe steal a bit from the Death Guard and have them mess with the terrain that they inhabit / that they assault into?

 

Chemical would be the guys with the phosphex and friends. Good-ish AP, the crawling fire effect and also lasting effects on the board as they are the guys spreading the nerve gas. Based on how the DA unique weapon is, maybe go for a random AP value to illustrate how much of a difference it makes whether the nerve gas hits the pauldrons or if it hits the grill. In game terms they would have a flamer-type weapon that is actually a chemical spreader with a lasting effect (that they would be immune to, of course) and options to buy acid rounds for their other weaponry / option to buy phosphex bombs for their leader. Maybe give these guys hallucinogen grenades to illustrate the weird stuff that the age of strife created.

[Robzilla]

Given that the fluff indicates that the destroyers are the marines who ignore the Geneva conventions that ban NBC weaponry, I would like to see them in three different flavors: nuclear, biological and chemical. Allow me to elaborate:

 

Nuclear would be pretty much as is, although I would do something with the bolt pistols and the rad missiles. The idea that they would hit a unit with a -1 T for the rest of the phase seems reasonablish, although it would of course be a heavy nerf to the 2 wound terminators that some legions have as plasma would ID them. Maybe -1 T that does not affect the ID threshold? Would mean the unit is easier to wound with small caliber weaponry, but wouldn't result in plasma murdering everything and everyone. I would also like the nuclear destroyers to be the only ones that have actual (although limited, destroyers are supposed to be anti-personnel) anti-tank capabilities (maybe a once per match mininuke missile alongside their typical rad missiles?). Their special weapon would remain the rad missile launcher and they would be the only destroyers that have the rad grenades.

 

Biological would be the guys with the virus weapons, so they would need to absolutely murder infantry compared to the other destroyer types. Give these guys poison and large blasts to account for the rapid spread of biological weaponry, but don't make the poison too strong to avoid Mechanicum monstrous creatures from being too devastated. I know there is usually something fleshy in their constructs, but they should still be relatively defended from viruses. Instead give these guys the good AP values as you only need a small gap somewhere for the virus to leak in (as detailed in the BL books that talk about the virus bombing of Istvaan III). Maybe their weaponry should have an ability to cause multiple wounds? Their special weapon would be a grenade launcher with the biological weaponry. I am not sure what their grenades should be like, but maybe steal a bit from the Death Guard and have them mess with the terrain that they inhabit / that they assault into?

 

Chemical would be the guys with the phosphex and friends. Good-ish AP, the crawling fire effect and also lasting effects on the board as they are the guys spreading the nerve gas. Based on how the DA unique weapon is, maybe go for a random AP value to illustrate how much of a difference it makes whether the nerve gas hits the pauldrons or if it hits the grill. In game terms they would have a flamer-type weapon that is actually a chemical spreader with a lasting effect (that they would be immune to, of course) and options to buy acid rounds for their other weaponry / option to buy phosphex bombs for their leader. Maybe give these guys hallucinogen grenades to illustrate the weird stuff that the age of strife created.

This!

 

Could opt for a basic unit stats and equipment, with a free upgrade like veterans, that gave a new set of rules and gear options.

 

I love the three options you have posed... How's about...

 

Stats, as is.

Gear:

two bolt pistols

Jump packs 3ppm

Can exchange bolt pistols for volkite charger for free. (cause choom. That's why).

 

Rad:

Enemy units that aren't destroyers or Moritat, suffer - 1Ws and I in close combat.

Unit gets rad grenades.

Two models may purchase rad-missile launchers (unit taking a wound is at -1T for the rest of the game turn)

 

Chemical:

Each model may purchase a phosphex bomb, (can only detonate one per turn)

 

Wildfire: Units can move the phosphex up to 3inches, for its creaping death rule.

 

Two models can purchase a phosphex missile launcher.

24 inch range, small phosphex blast.

 

Viral:

Each member of the unit can replace their guns with a viral flamer for free:

Flamer, poison 2+ rending, ap4, Soulblaze.

 

Two Models may purchase a viral mine:

Deployed in the movement phase.

Turns a price of terrain the unit is in contact with into dangerous terrain.

Wounds caused by this have Soulblaze.

 

Dangerous terrain test to charge this unit.

 

 

Thoughts?

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

 

*SNIP*

This!

 

Could opt for a basic unit stats and equipment, with a free upgrade like veterans, that gave a new set of rules and gear options.

 

I love the three options you have posed... How's about...

 

Stats, as is.

Gear:

two bolt pistols

Jump packs 3ppm

Can exchange bolt pistols for volkite charger for free. (cause choom. That's why).

 

Rad:

Enemy units that aren't destroyers or Moritat, suffer - 1Ws and I in close combat.

Unit gets rad grenades.

Two models may purchase rad-missile launchers (unit taking a wound is at -1T for the rest of the game turn)

 

Chemical:

Each model may purchase a phosphex bomb, (can only detonate one per turn)

 

Wildfire: Units can move the phosphex up to 3inches, for its creaping death rule.

 

Two models can purchase a phosphex missile launcher.

24 inch range, small phosphex blast.

 

Viral:

Each member of the unit can replace their guns with a viral flamer for free:

Flamer, poison 2+ rending, ap4, Soulblaze.

 

Two Models may purchase a viral mine:

Deployed in the movement phase.

Turns a price of terrain the unit is in contact with into dangerous terrain.

Wounds caused by this have Soulblaze.

 

Dangerous terrain test to charge this unit.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Beautiful! I really like these ideas that you put forth in a much more structured way. I would maybe give them only the same small phosphex blast that the quad mortars can take to cut down on the availability of AP2, but otherwise I would love to see these or something like this implemented.

[Slips]

For Viral, why not just: Sx Ap5 Fleshbane, Rending, Gets Hot! for the Flamers. Soulblaze, while cool, doesn't really do much, imo, and adds some easily forgettable bookkeeping in practice.

 

Big mechanicum bots are still slightly harder to take down since they force rerolls for successful poison and fleshbane wounds but it does make them better at taking down Gargantuan MC's since Fleshbane isnt affected by their Poisoned/Sniper nerf of wounding them on a 6+ only.

 

Having Gets Hot! on them also makes it a risky, albeit powerful, short ranged weapon to have. I'd personally price them at +10ppm at a minimum because 10 Rending Flamer templates that wound on a 2+ with 10d3 Overwatch autohits are preeeeeeety nasty.

[Robzilla]

Good point on both the fleshbane and the points (forgot about the overwatch!)

 

Soulblaze, I agree, is normally a needless rule, I do like the idea of the virus spreading to other members of the squad. It's a pretty good interpretation of the mechanic.

 

Maybe instead, add a rule to the weapon:

 

Contagion: if the unit suffers an unsaved wound, it just take a single toughness test, or suffer another wound. Unsaved wounds caused in this manner may force further toughness tests.

[Jimm]

A volkite style hand flamer would be pretty fun if your doing down that road.

[mechadryad]

Personally I'd want access to cheap pistols for the points they take up, I'm talking mix and match plasma, volkite, archeotech and graviton pistols.

 

I'm not just saying that because I've got cowboy vanguard marines for 40k, I think the niche of gunslingers has potential but the lack of power behind it hamstrings them.

[Nova_chron]

Personally I feel that gunslinger should allow use of the weapons profile in assault but then you run into oh hey spam plasma pistols for a unit of str7 ap2 desperados..... it would be really cool cause in alot of books you read about marines firing their pistols in hand to hand combat

[Cerbero666]

Possibly my favourite unit from FW's HH series so far, but such a let down in terms of forbidden weaponry. Bio-alchelm munition is mentioned in the fluff, but not a single option is related to it. I considered a special ammunition for their bolt pistols, something like kraken or banestrike rounds. Also the option to replace both pistols with volkite chargers, which are more "old night style". But some of the other options you guys added sound funnier, I'll give them a try. These guys need more rad weaponry, phosphex missiles, virus weaponry... I hope FW change them before they end the HH. What's the point of writing a bakcground like that for these guys and then letting them without their toys?

[RandomMarine]

I think exclusive bolt rounds and cheaper jump packs would be enough

 

Phosphirex rounds small blast

Poision rounds poison persist even if you survive so you have to roll each turn.

Rad rounds -1t

[Arendious]

Rotor cannons, for those pesky hordes of refugees...

 

Void grenades, nanyte bombs, grav mines, lots of semi-exotic area denial/control stuff. I could see the option to take a rad-cleanser replacing the rad-missile with a full 10-man squad.

[Brother Aiwass]

I would love to see them fixed, both rules and point wise. They're awesome in fluff and the minis are really great, but is difficult to expend that many points on MEQs at low point games (up to 2k).