Had a 1500Pt Highlander Game (ITC)vs Admech (1pic)

[Prot]

As the title suggests I managed to squeeze an Ultramarines game in amongst my other games this week... this time it's in practice for a Highlander event which has some serious restrictions (can't duplicate anything, except troops unless you take all troop options available.)

We played 1500 ITC scenario Big Guns Never tire, Maelstrom, Tertiary . Vanguard Deployment (table angles - diagonal) (These are the missions the tournie will use). My friend is also practicing for it so he brought out big bad Belasarius and an Admech/Skitarii army.

Since you can only take two formations (period) I decided to go with a Cataphractii lead Demi Co Gladius.

What a brutal game it was. I only took one picture because I have so many proxies/unpainted models going on. But essentially he stole the initiative to go first. I had my Captain and Grav Cents in a Landraider Redeemer hidden more or less in the middle of the table.

Now I don't know how many of you have been to ITC events but typically they take a big terrain piece(s) and plop it dead center to disrupt (LoS).

I felt this was going to be an ugly game as it always is with Admech, and after his steal he advanced a boat load of Haywire dudes that looked like old school tractors with mannequins strapped to them (Cataphrons?). Anyway he also had a boat load of Grav and with the 30" range I had a lot of hull down. For some of the shots I got a 4 up cover, and for some I goat a 5 up.

In the end I did not lose anything on T1 but... thanks to Grav-bots, I was immoblized. Thanks to haywire, I was down to 1 HP.... The Catacaptain and Grav Centurions were on foot....

- My turn I have a pod come in deep in his zone. I found I had kill something... so kill I did. But it was like old times. My Pods hit hard, but then the contents faded hard. Too much grav and a lot of these spindly dudes have tazers and stuff.... plus FnP and they lower your stats by 1. So I can't tell you how big re-rolling shots were.

- The army portion that was static just unloaded on Belasarius and a lot of his stuff started disappearing too but I could not put a dent in the 'big' units of Admech which were his Castellan Robots (those 50's mars looking things with T7 FnP, shooty as heck.) And Belasarius could tank anything I think.

- I was using 10th co to grab stuff, the Storm Speeder on my T1 had a large blast hit Belasariuis' squad of Destroyers, and another squad of Grav Destroyers and they BOTH failed Blind tests! This was huge.

- I didn't kill much but secured 2 points to his 1. From that point on I tried to maneuver into scoring positions and key objectives for late game points. I tried to exploit his movement issues but it was SO hard in T1-T2 for me to kill anything because he gave his Admech army Shroud.

I did have an Auspex but it turned one Robot squad into having a 3+ cover, vs 2+ cover which was pretty much what the rest of his Admech units had.

- I tried hard to prevent... dying! (who doesn't, right?) And any squad that was down to one man just ran and hid.... the Catacaptain went down in a blaze of risk I SHOULD NOT have taken, but I had to start widdling down the Grav. In T2 of course, without firing a shot the Redeemer is lost, and so is the Captain.

I know I'm in trouble at this point. Grav cents lay a good beat down on his Destroyers though leaving only one. the Storm Speeder gets another Blind off on the big bad Mars robots at center table. He was going to fire them twice the next turn.... so they would do so blindly, and he would roll 6's to hit! D'oh.

The game was a blood bath. His Skitarii came in from reserves and eventually annihilated all my Pod marines. All were dead, all scouts from 10Th co were dead except a mid field 5 man unit which he had mostly ignored. I lost the Centurions who spent two full turns trying to gun Belasarius down.

You know twice I had Belasarius down to about.... 2-3 wounds but I think he ended the game at full wounds. He is ridiculous. I have yet to kill him in a game.

In one turn I put 14 Grav Cannon Wounds, and 4 bolter wounds on him, plus 4 more wounds from my Rhino Grav. I watched him roll double FnP, and just lose two wounds in that shooting phase from 22 wounds (18 were AP2, but he was in 5+ cover, so he rolls 5+, 5+, 5+. Then next turn gets D3 wounds back). He was just disgusting.

The game ends though and even though I am gutted, I have a Rhino with a Grav Cannon I've been stealing his Objetive 2 all game and one pod that isn't destroyed , and 5 scouts.

It was like old times were I try to out maneuver, saturate ObSec, steal as many points as I can, and try not to die before the game ends. With Belasarius wandering the field like a rickety old microwave in a bathrobe, and his untouched Mars Bots... I can't tell you how happy i was it ended in Turn 5!!!

Even his Skitarrii assault dudes still had over half a squad left and they are very underrated (but expensive ) unit.

That being said I am fortunate to say Ultramarines won the Maelstrom (4pts), won the Big Guns Never Tire (4pts), and got 2 tertiary points (hold 3 objectives, linebreaker). Admech got. Slay The Warlord making the score 10-1.

It sounds like a large victory for Ultramar, but it wasn't. It was a thorough beating. I'm very lucky it ended.

I had some half painted units I did not sell with the army so i included them to complete the Demi Co requriements keeping Highlander in mind. Now I remember why I never use them.... Bloody Landraider was a brick as usual. (My Deathwatch one is too)2 Typhoon Speeders were so incredibly bad.

I rebought a Storm Speeder for scouts... I always used to use this unit, and I'm reminded why. People hate shooting at them but they are so incredibly annoying. Necrons hate them... anyone low Initiative hates them.

So a thorough but kind of sad victory. It was a super fun game though but I was reminded of how terrible it is to be removing units all the time without any saves and that's what I enjoy about my Thousand Sons (actually getting to make meaningful saves!)

Thanks for reading. Sorry there aren't more pics but too many grey models!! ;)

[Vel'Cona]

Interesting stuff. How do you feel about Highlander format versus other comp restrictions? Do you think it actually accomplishes the goal of reducing powerful lists' dominance?

I like that your "unpainted" list is still about 90% more painted than my "finished" lists.

[Prot]

Interesting stuff. How do you feel about Highlander format versus other comp restrictions? Do you think it actually accomplishes the goal of reducing powerful lists' dominance?

I like that your "unpainted" list is still about 90% more painted than my "finished" lists.

Hehe.. thanks.

I think the format actually makes a huge difference. You can't stop some deathstar builds with this format, but I think it does curb super abusive units that you get sick of seeing. Like Warp Spyder spam is just ridiculous and it can't work in Highlander.

What I like best is I think Highlander takes very bad or dated codexes and makes them very playable again: IE: Deathwatch, Orks, Tyranids.The two unique formatinon limitation is also huge because Tau get hit hard with it, Necrons with Wraith spam, and their Decurion is now impossible.

So it takes super strong, abusive, and repeatetiive armies and brings them down a notch giving armies with fair unit selections a good chance. I think Space Marines are especially find in this format but something crazy that gets around it is GSC.

[Akrim]

Lol I think a Force axe/hammer is the only conventional way to kill Belisarius. Its nigh impossible to kill him by shooting; +2 armour, ++5 refractor, ++5/++5 rerollable FNP.

 

Im no math expert, but thats pretty good statistical coverage from shooting.

[Trevak Dal]

So is Admech basically like Tau and Necrons had a horrible kid with Grav for creatures and Haywire for vehicles?

[Prot]

Lol I think a Force axe/hammer is the only conventional way to kill Belisarius. Its nigh impossible to kill him by shooting; +2 armour, ++5 refractor, ++5/++5 rerollable FNP.

 

Im no math expert, but thats pretty good statistical coverage from shooting.

 

I think there's more to Belasarius than we know. Celestine is also super survivable, and she is called the Emperor's Hand. I believe Belasarius is the Emperor's Armpit. Smells like one, and just won't die.  :facepalm:

 

 

So is Admech basically like Tau and Necrons had a horrible kid with Grav for creatures and Haywire for vehicles?

 

The trick is convincing your Admech opponent to shoot haywire at Centurions, and Grav at Scouts. So far it's not working. :)

 

I could have made a CAD and added Tiggy for extra sauce, but I do like playing Demi-Co Gladius just because I miss so often and I find I need the extra ObSec.

 

The thing about a CAD is it opens up what I've been using with Deathwatch... Celestine. Also units like Thunderfires, and Tiggy, and Fast Pods for Cents which is really hard to do within a Gladius.

[Brother Captain Ed]

The Demi-Company is tried and true for the reasons you mentioned.  But do you think you'd have had better resilience and/or more outs in this matchup if you'd had models like Celestine or Thunderfires?

[Akrim]

So is Admech basically like Tau and Necrons had a horrible kid with Grav for creatures and Haywire for vehicles?

Precisely, that pretty much concludes the thread : D

 

The Ad Mech taser rules are a carbon copy of Necron tesla, its as though its stolen technology.....

[Trevak Dal]

If I played Loyalists, I'd play Demi Company (there was a sample army in the 5th edition Space Marine codex I LOVED the look of, very balanced looking, it was what I based my Black Legion off of).

 

I've not gotten a chance to play AdMech yet, none of my friends has them, though there are only two Loyalist players in our group (Space Wolves and Flesh Tearers, and then Imperial Fist successors and Sisters of Battle).

[Ishagu]

I had the idea of an allied detachment.

 

6 Kataphron Destroyers with Grav, and Belasarius. Throw in a cheap Prescience Libby with the optional Skyfire/Tank Hunter/Monster Hunter relic attached.

 

That would be some pretty mad firepower with range. 36 TL 36" range Grav shots.

[Prot]

If I played Loyalists, I'd play Demi Company (there was a sample army in the 5th edition Space Marine codex I LOVED the look of, very balanced looking, it was what I based my Black Legion off of).

 

I've not gotten a chance to play AdMech yet, none of my friends has them, though there are only two Loyalist players in our group (Space Wolves and Flesh Tearers, and then Imperial Fist successors and Sisters of Battle).

 

I think a Demi-Gladius is a great way to play an Astartes and feel like you have a medium power base, yet you're sticking with the background pretty solidly. I know that what is 'fluffy' and what is not is highly debatable but that's how I feel about it.

 

I've always said (not to turn this into a Black Legion thread) I've been shocked GW never did a truly similar concept for Black Legion. I kept waiting for it with baited breath and it never happened.

 

Ultramarines are extremely unpopular in my area. I am the only one I've ever seen field a painted UM army at the store. (Noobs try them as a gatweay drug to GW's product but quickly realize all the cool kids don't play Ultra. ;) )

 

I like to be 'uncool'... and beat people with 'uncool' stuff. I look at LVO and shake my head at the 17 battle co's almost completely comprised of White Scars. They didn't do very well this year, so I'm hoping Guilliman shakes stuff up (and I'm not just talking about his sweet Twitter account. ) He might be something that empowers a Gladius greatly. Time will tell.

[Ishagu]

Prot, I'm hoping for something totally different from Gladius. I don't want a disposable MSU horde with free points.

 

I want rules that make the Ultras as deadly and effective as they are in the lore.

[Brother Captain Ed]

As the title suggests I managed to squeeze an Ultramarines game in amongst my other games this week... this time it's in practice for a Highlander event which has some serious restrictions (can't duplicate anything, except troops unless you take all troop options available.)

....

Thanks for reading. Sorry there aren't more pics but too many grey models!!

I didn't quote you, so I think you missed it, Prot:

The Demi-Company is tried and true for the reasons you mentioned. But do you think you'd have had better resilience and/or more outs in this matchup if you'd had models like Celestine or Thunderfires?

A single game does not a comprehensive assessment of a list, make. But I am wondering what your thoughts on it are, especially since it is a very specific sort of marine list.

[Prot]

As the title suggests I managed to squeeze an Ultramarines game in amongst my other games this week... this time it's in practice for a Highlander event which has some serious restrictions (can't duplicate anything, except troops unless you take all troop options available.)

....

Thanks for reading. Sorry there aren't more pics but too many grey models!!

I didn't quote you, so I think you missed it, Prot:

The Demi-Company is tried and true for the reasons you mentioned. But do you think you'd have had better resilience and/or more outs in this matchup if you'd had models like Celestine or Thunderfires?

A single game does not a comprehensive assessment of a list, make. But I am wondering what your thoughts on it are, especially since it is a very specific sort of marine list.

Ah gees, I'm sorry. I did actually mean to respond to that. Too much on the go.

I thought about it and didn't just want to make an off the cuff response.

First off have you tried Celestine? She's extremely good, but more importantly (to me) is like Belasarius she's extremely economical. I mean Magnus is 'good' but he's like 3 Belasairius' and change.

The thing is if you match her up right, I've had her lead Vanguard and Deathwatch Bikers, it's very potent. It's just so much easier to do in a CAD so I always look at things in a CAD that are so hard to use in a Demi. The first things that I always go to are:

1. Fast attack pods for Grav Cents

2. Tigurius (probably the best priced psyker in the game)

3. Thunderfires.

I think GW knows how good these are because the only legitmate way of getting bombardment like that in a Demi/Battle Co is taking the Whirlwind suppression Force and the Armoured Auxiliaries which are just too tax heavy have the actual Thunderfires. A squadron of Thunderfires is incredibly punishing... eldar bikes, Tau, etc... you can't hide from these. Range is amazing and it frees up your Drop Pod units to go after harder alpha units.

I had to use Grav cents on foot (the Landraider was immoblized T1) and they just get murdered. They re' just high target priority (justifiably so). Pods make such a difference and getting Tiggy in there can really empower him. He also has my favorite warlord trait. Put that on the Thunderfires for just a turn or even the bolters on the Centurions and you can really burn some stuff up.

Celestine brings more tanking to punchy units, but she's perhaps really good with a somewhat assaulty unit that excels in shooting. This is where Ultramarine Bikes are better than Deathwatch bikes. Deathwatch bikes can hit harder, but the shooting is limited to the SIA guns. Celestine has high initiative and Hit and Run making Grav bikes a lot better (it's a common tactic to tie them up because they do so little in CC). The Vanguard Vets can just grab some fists, and let her do the tanking.

Celestine opens up Relic items, and she opens up unit buffs. If you buff Vets with her elite buff, so lightning claws at S5 are always good... re-rolling all to hits with the right Tactics running.

One other thing... I can get a cheap Stormtalon into a CAD very easily too. ;)