Rune Priest Jbickb Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Good afternoon. I'm new to 30k but not to space wolves. I have just under 15k points of 40k wolves, but I was thinking with our entry into 30k I might participate in the history of my chapter a bit. What i'm looking for is a list of about 4000 points, reasonably balanced and as take all comers as is possible, the list below was my first stab at it, but now I come to those of you who have fought on the battlefieldsame of the 31st millennium for advice. I've always been a big drop pod fanot and I love the 30k pods. However the only things I want to stay in the list are Russ with pups and the Siege Dreadnaught, the rest are completely guesses on my part so feel free to offer any suggestions you see fit. Nothing is bought yet except the Siege Dreadnaught so tear me up. List LOWs Russ 455 HQs Wolf kin 100 Praeter CTDA GFB digital lasers 160 Caster of Runes ML2 Aether-rune 155 Speaker of the dead Aether-rune 135 Troops 20 grey slayers huscarl 2x lightning claw AA 4 power fist 5 power axe 5 power sword 5 base 340 10 Grey slayers huscarl frost axe AA 2 power fist 2 power swords 2 power axe 190 10 Grey slayers huscarl power fist AA 2 power fist 2 power axe rhino 200 Elites 9 death sworn great frost blades 285 7 Varagyr PF claw 389 Spartan ceramite and aux drive 335 Fast attack Dread claw drop pod 115 Dread claw drop pod 115 Heavy support Kharybdis 235 Leviathan Siege Dreadnaught claw and grav, phophex and ceramite, pod 425 Whirlwind scorpius 115 I think I'm about 250 short so any help with where to use that would be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge the Daemon Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I might come off a bit harsh but I guess these are just my general thoughts. I think you have something nice thematically but performance wise it's going to struggle. Deathsworn aren't super great but if you want to take them rad grenades are a must. Drop the Caster and make him a Speaker put 1 with each Varagyr and Deathsworn give them both great frost blades. Give the deathsworn one a melta bomb. Praeter drop the great froster blade take a paragon blade it's infinitely better than the frost blade. Spartan needs flare shields and dozer blade is probably more useful than Auxillary drive but take both if you want. You are taking 4 pods odd numbers are generally better as you get more in. I assume wolves russ praetor and a priest go with the varagyr. Cool I guess dunno if the wolves do much there I guess they fill an HQ slot for you though. At 4k points the scoprius is kind of lackluster though it really dominates at low points it's just not slot effecient and you'll need heavy support to take more anti tank. The biggest issue at 4k you have 2 Rhino hauls 1 Sparano and 2 drop pods as the only things on the table it just might not last very long. Also anti tank you didn't actually bring any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Not harsh, this is the kind of info I am looking for. :) That was my thought for the deathstar. Seems like a lot of points, but it also seems like the best way to bring Russ. What are the recommended antitank units in 30k? I was thinking the large amount of power fists would hold me over, plus a couple scattered melta bombs, but I suspect that may not be the case. Also how do rhinos do in 30k? I figured them and Dread Claws are the only way to cart around 10 man squads, but perhaps I am missing something. As for odd pods, how does one get pods in 30k besides dreads and other slots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge the Daemon Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Not harsh, this is the kind of info I am looking for. :) That was my thought for the deathstar. Seems like a lot of points, but it also seems like the best way to bring Russ. What are the recommended antitank units in 30k? I was thinking the large amount of power fists would hold me over, plus a couple scattered melta bombs, but I suspect that may not be the case. Also how do rhinos do in 30k? I figured them and Dread Claws are the only way to cart around 10 man squads, but perhaps I am missing something. As for odd pods, how does one get pods in 30k besides dreads and other slots? The orbital assault right of War is the only way to acquire more pods. Rhinos are good I like them they die easily but they provide cover and force the opponent to waste heavy weapons so they can fire their small arms at something. Also if you have high enough target saturation they might actually get where they need to go. In terms of anti tank the best units generally are ranged things such as vindicators laser destroyers, kraken penetrators lighting system, Sicaran, Javelins. But close combat can get it done as well with chain fists abundant and dreads. The only issue with combat is you need to get there before you get killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Hmmmmm ok back to the drawing board for a bit it's think. Is there a good rule of thumb for how much anti tank I need on the ranged end? Looking around at other lists, especially mechanicum ones, I see the need for some ranged terror. How about this, comes out to 3 points shy of 4k LOWs 455 Russ 455 HQs 535 Wolf kin 100 Praeter CTDA GFB digital lasers 160 Speaker of the dead Aether-rune GFB 145 Speaker of the dead AA GFB Melta bomb 130 Troops 775 20 grey slayers huscarl 2x lightning claw AA 4 power fist 5 power axe 5 power sword 5 base 340 10 Grey slayers huscarl frost axe AA 2 power fist 2 power swords, power axe rhino 220 10 Grey slayers huscarl power fist AA 2 power fist 2 power swords, power axe rhino 215 Elites 1012 9 Death sworn great frost blade 285 6 Varagyr PF claw 342 Spartan flare shields, dozer blade, ceramite and aux drive 385 Fast attack 340 Dread claw drop pod 115 3 javelin land speeders with lascannon and multimelta 225 Heavy support 890 Kharybdis 235 Leviathan Siege Dreadnaught claw and grav, phophex and ceramite, pod 425 Sicaran battle tank lascannon sponsons, dozer blade, ceramite 230 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Here is some already chewed mathhammer for you B) http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330474-best-ways-to-deal-with-av14-by-shooting/ If you can wreck Spartan and few rhinos a turn you are good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Thanks for that link. If I interpreted the data correctly it looks like that should be reasonable between the Sicaran and javelin speeders.I see that the Lightning is the gold standard for anti tank, but to get that load out costs about the same as the Sicaran and I just couldn't find the points for both, plus I don't want to rely on reserves for antitank if I can avoid it. Do you agree this works with your data, or did I misunderstand something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 That pretty much sums it up. Also Sicaran Venators will shut off even enemy super heavies as penetrating hit means they need to fire snap shots in their turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 That was definitely a perk I was seeing in the Sicaran over the Lightning besides the reserves, I feel like the ability to somewhat cripple a super heavy is quite a huge perk of that tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 So here is the final list I came around to after some research and getting a better feel for jakaira's data analysis, it think it covers enough bases and should be quite fun to build plus it is reasonably fluffy (read not overly spamming lol). LOWs 455 Russ 455 HQs 535 Wolf kin 100 Praeter CTDA GFB digital lasers 160 Speaker of the dead Aether-rune GFB 145 Speaker of the dead AA GFB Melta bomb 130 Troops 785 20 grey slayers huscarl 2x lightning claw AA 4 power fist 5 power axe 5 power sword 5 base 340 10 Grey slayers huscarl frost axe AA 2 power fist 2 power swords, power axe rhino dozer blade 225 10 Grey slayers huscarl power fist AA 2 power fist 2 power axe, power sword rhino dozer blade 220 Elites 997 8 Death sworn great frost blade rad grenades 280 6 Varagyr PF claw 342 Spartan flare shields, dozer blade, ceramite 375 Fast attack 310 Dread claw drop pod 115 3 legion land speeders with grav gun and multimelta 195 Heavy support 915 Kharybdis 235 Leviathan Siege Dreadnaught claw and grav, phophex and ceramite, pod 425 Sicaran venator lascannon sponsons, dozer blade, ceramite 255 It occurs to me I have an issue however, this list seems to struggle to fit into a RoW. Does anyone have any advice for an RoW I fit in, or will I have to majorly change my list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 You don't "have" to have a RoW, in this case you might be better off dropping the Praetor down to a Centurion and using the points elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 Hmm ok fair enough. I assume the loss of bonus rules is quite detrimental none the less or am I overestimating their value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 So I'm looking at a retool of my list and I would like to work a Mastodon in there, any suggestions on how to get 2 LOWs in around 4-5k points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Its not possible with the Age of Darkness Detachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Its not possible with the Age of Darkness Detachment. Yes it is. It's called a WarMachine Detachment. Let's you take 1-2 identical LoW choices with 8 or less hullpoints as a single LoW choice. They must deploy within 6" of each other but other wise are separate units. If you want multiple fellblades, you'll have to ditch a RoW and take the Onslaught alternate FoC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 Sadly a Mastodon fails to meet those requirements for that detachment. So it appears balusters is right I'm with regards to my desire. Hmmmmm back to the drawing board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 OK I have changed my tactics and I think this looks good, but feel free to tear it apart because I likely missed something and there may be something I need to know about 30k where I have gone astray. Anyway here's my latest creation RoW- primarchs chosen HQs Lehman Russ 455 Hvarl red blade 210 Terminator command squad, land raider phobos DB AC, 4 t-terminator, heavy flamer, 3 volkite charger, 2 axe 2 sword 386 Priest of Fenris, speaker of the dead Artificer armor great frost blade melta bomb 130 Priest of Fenris, speaker of the dead, C-terminator great frost blade 125 Troops Varagyr 5x PF claw, 2 frost blade frost axe, 2 chain fist combi melta, 1 Thunder hammer frost blade 545 Spartan, flare shields DB, AC 375 20 grey slayers, huscarl PF combat shield AA, 4 power fist, 4 power sword, 4 power axe 7 combat shields 10 Grey slayers huscarl PF combat shield AA, 3 power axe, 2 power fist, 5 combat shield, rhino DB 235 10 legion veterans marksmen, sergeant AA, power axe, rhino DB 220 Fast attack Lightning, 2 kraken, battle servitors, ground tracking, 230 Heavy support Whirlwind scorpius 115 Sicaran venator lascannon sponsons AC DB Spartan flare shields DB, AC 375 the 20 man grey slayers go with the AA Speaker in the second Spartan. I feel like the board presence at the start is quite aggressive with a fair amount of durable armor on the table to start. The ability to scout the Spartans and land Raiders, or perhaps a rhino allows for some flexibility and extra maneuverability that may help get into combat sooner as well. Between the large quantities of lascannon and the Lightning and venator armor shouldn't be a large issue either. All of this is of course speculation so if any of you more experienced lads want to tear up my logic, feel free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge the Daemon Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 OK I have changed my tactics and I think this looks good, but feel free to tear it apart because I likely missed something and there may be something I need to know about 30k where I have gone astray. Anyway here's my latest creation RoW- primarchs chosen HQs Lehman Russ 455 Hvarl red blade 210 Terminator command squad, land raider phobos DB AC, 4 t-terminator, heavy flamer, 3 volkite charger, 2 axe 2 sword 386 Priest of Fenris, speaker of the dead Artificer armor great frost blade melta bomb 130 Priest of Fenris, speaker of the dead, C-terminator great frost blade 125 Troops Varagyr 5x PF claw, 2 frost blade frost axe, 2 chain fist combi melta, 1 Thunder hammer frost blade 545 Spartan, flare shields DB, AC 375 20 grey slayers, huscarl PF combat shield AA, 4 power fist, 4 power sword, 4 power axe 7 combat shields 10 Grey slayers huscarl PF combat shield AA, 3 power axe, 2 power fist, 5 combat shield, rhino DB 235 10 legion veterans marksmen, sergeant AA, power axe, rhino DB 220 Fast attack Lightning, 2 kraken, battle servitors, ground tracking, 230 Heavy support Whirlwind scorpius 115 Sicaran venator lascannon sponsons AC DB Spartan flare shields DB, AC 375 the 20 man grey slayers go with the AA Speaker in the second Spartan. I feel like the board presence at the start is quite aggressive with a fair amount of durable armor on the table to start. The ability to scout the Spartans and land Raiders, or perhaps a rhino allows for some flexibility and extra maneuverability that may help get into combat sooner as well. Between the large quantities of lascannon and the Lightning and venator armor shouldn't be a large issue either. All of this is of course speculation so if any of you more experienced lads want to tear up my logic, feel free. Primarchs Chosen isn't a row we can take due to the compulsory HQ having to be a Centurion or Praetor which conflicts with the Row saying a primarch must be. Also you need more LA then vehicles in primarchs chosen which by my count you don't seem to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 Well that sucks, I thought the right of ear would override the required HQs like it over rides required troop choices but for some reason this is not the case? As for the legions a started thing the only vehicles I have without legion a starts are the land raider and rhinos,so 3. This is according to battlescribe however as I am at work away from my book, so the Spartan, Sicaran, Scorpius, and lighting may not actually have LA but on battlescribe they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge the Daemon Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Well that sucks, I thought the right of ear would override the required HQs like it over rides required troop choices but for some reason this is not the case? As for the legions a started thing the only vehicles I have without legion a starts are the land raider and rhinos,so 3. This is according to battlescribe however as I am at work away from my book, so the Spartan, Sicaran, Scorpius, and lighting may not actually have LA but on battlescribe they do. The battlescribe LA box isn't actually an option seems to be a bug they implemented or may it allows you to take Legion specific vehicle options. The only units with LA are your actual marines. And unfortunately it does not as while it makes vets compulsory that's more general than our specific rule that says only Grey Slayers. Russ on the other hand would bypass this as Russ is more specific then our legion rules. Which is the same reason we can't take Russ as a compulsory HQ as the legion rules are more specific than the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 Damn list building is trickier for 30k than I thought. Alright then another round with the list builder it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 Alright I think I finally worked out a list that fits a RoW, has anti vehicle, and breaks no other rules 4000 pts RoW- pale hunters LOW Lehman Russ 455 HQs Hvarl red blade 210 Terminator command squad, land raider phobos DB AC, 4 t-terminator, heavy flamer, 3 volkite charger, 2 axe 2 sword 386 Priest of Fenris, speaker of the dead Artificer armor great frost blade melta bomb 130 Priest of Fenris, speaker of the dead, C-terminator great frost blade 125 Centurion vigilator, power axe, combat shield, AA 115 Elites Varagyr 5x PF claw, 2 frost blade frost axe, 2 chain fist combi melta, 1 Thunder hammer frost blade 545 Spartan, flare shields DB, AC 375 Troops 20 grey slayers, huscarl PF combat shield AA, 4 power fist, 4 power sword, 4 power axe 7 combat shields 10 Grey slayers huscarl PF combat shield AA, 3 power axe, 2 power fist, 5 combat shield, rhino DB 235 10 Grey slayers huscarl PF combat shield AA, 3 power axe, 2 power fist, 5 combat shield, rhino DB 235 Fast attack Lightning, 2 kraken, battle servitors, ground tracking, 230 3 land speeders grav multimelta 195 Heavy support Spartan flare shields DB, AC 375 the 20 man grey slayers go with the AA Speaker and the vigilator in the HS Spartan. Russ and the terminator Speaker in with the varagyr in their Spartan This gives me 4 transports scouting 12 inches right into the face of the enemy. Sadly the reserves bonus only helps the Lightning, but it is important to get that in turn 2 to help clear up issues. How does this look brethren of the past? Have I finally made a reasonably competitive but still fun list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge the Daemon Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Alright I think I finally worked out a list that fits a RoW, has anti vehicle, and breaks no other rules 4000 pts RoW- pale hunters LOW Lehman Russ 455 HQs Hvarl red blade 210 Terminator command squad, land raider phobos DB AC, 4 t-terminator, heavy flamer, 3 volkite charger, 2 axe 2 sword 386 Priest of Fenris, speaker of the dead Artificer armor great frost blade melta bomb 130 Priest of Fenris, speaker of the dead, C-terminator great frost blade 125 Centurion vigilator, power axe, combat shield, AA 115 Elites Varagyr 5x PF claw, 2 frost blade frost axe, 2 chain fist combi melta, 1 Thunder hammer frost blade 545 Spartan, flare shields DB, AC 375 Troops 20 grey slayers, huscarl PF combat shield AA, 4 power fist, 4 power sword, 4 power axe 7 combat shields 10 Grey slayers huscarl PF combat shield AA, 3 power axe, 2 power fist, 5 combat shield, rhino DB 235 10 Grey slayers huscarl PF combat shield AA, 3 power axe, 2 power fist, 5 combat shield, rhino DB 235 Fast attack Lightning, 2 kraken, battle servitors, ground tracking, 230 3 land speeders grav multimelta 195 Heavy support Spartan flare shields DB, AC 375 the 20 man grey slayers go with the AA Speaker and the vigilator in the HS Spartan. Russ and the terminator Speaker in with the varagyr in their Spartan This gives me 4 transports scouting 12 inches right into the face of the enemy. Sadly the reserves bonus only helps the Lightning, but it is important to get that in turn 2 to help clear up issues. How does this look brethren of the past? Have I finally made a reasonably competitive but still fun list? Really the biggest issue I see is you've got next to no anti tank the speeders die quick though they can do damage and the Lightning kills one thing and then is a single lascannon. Your ranged anti tank is litterally 5 lascannons at 4k points. Tbh pale Hunters scases really badly I'd probbably drop it so you can actually take something to harm vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 So the impression I'm getting is that RoW are not a necessary thing to be successful, in fact they seem to over restrict for the benefits gained. Is this a common feeling? Would swapping the speeders for a sicaran venator get me the necessary ranged anti tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge the Daemon Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 So the impression I'm getting is that RoW are not a necessary thing to be successful, in fact they seem to over restrict for the benefits gained. Is this a common feeling? It honestly depends on the Row. Some are almost free of restrictions the SW just aren't like that. Though Bloodied Claw has far less restrictions than pale Hunters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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