RandomMarine Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 So we all know that DORN was recalled to to fortify Terra but what was he fortifying against? Did the emperor suspect heresy? A unknown xenos threat? Just for lols? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Read Master of Mankind. It will tell you why the big E wanted/needed more peeps on Terra (and more so ones who would undoubtedly follow orders). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4659961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Also read Praetorian of Dorn. The solar system was constantly being harried by rag tag traitor forces. And, well, other events in the book show why they needed the Fists there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4660102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Also read Praetorian of Dorn. The solar system was constantly being harried by rag tag traitor forces. And, well, other events in the book show why they needed the Fists there. Well he's asking why he was recalled in the first place which was actually before the heresy actually started, but yeah read Master of Mankind as shandwen suggests. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4660418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomMarine Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 I've read MOM and POD. I didn't think MOM gave any insite unless i missed it. But yeah I was asking about pre heresy post ullanor The fist aren't their to enter the webway as the custodes used zephon as a canary because they thought the webway would corrupt astartes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4660730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleBrotherJohn Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Unless I have missed something in the HH novels / background fluff Dorn only started fortifying Terra after the Heresy started. From a purely military point of view it makes sense for the Emperor to retain a strategic reserve force at Terra , to be deployed anywhere within the Imperium if circumstance required . As the Imperial Fists had been used during the Great Crusade in this role it makes sense for them to continue in this role in the post Crusade era. Also as Dorn had always been a reliable deputy he would have accepted this duty without complaint or straining at the leash , unlike some of the other Primarch's ( loyalist and traitor alike ) who by the end of the Great Crusade to have been driven by ego and personal empire building. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4660760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 He was recalled before the Heresy I'm pretty sure. Horus Rising has a scene with Horus and the Mournival talking to Sigismund (and Dorn?) where they mention about the IF being recalled to Terra, before the heresy has started. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4660784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 They were Recalled after the Triumph at Ullanor. The Emperor said he was done , made Horus warmaster took Dorn and the Fists back to Terra with him Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4660786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Maybe the Emperor felt that HIS presence on Terra required a fortress to house HIS worthy self. He was going to start the webway project, maybe that required greater protection as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4660797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Emps going into his secret project full time needed a loyal and reliable leader for the Imperium on Terra. Can't blame the choice at all. EDIT: It was a real pitty what happened with Terran felines though. All extinct in a week... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4660846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 He needed someone to keep his house in order who wouldn't ask questions and would just do as he is told. I don't recall the book name, but Malcador and Dorn were basically the Emperor's deputies who ran the empire while Empy was off surfing the webway and building his bondage chair for Magnus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4660887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 For me Dorn was chosen because he was super reliable, mentally stable (unlike Perturabo who was also an expert) and his legion had supreme castlebuilder skills. As mentioned before no other primarch had the same set of quality. Why E made the decision to fortify the Palace? Well, I think because webwey project needed external protection is the first reason, second is that Terra was capital of the Imperium and everything was going so well that E could afford recalling a legion of specialists from the front lines to do the job. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4661005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Also read Praetorian of Dorn. The solar system was constantly being harried by rag tag traitor forces. And, well, other events in the book show why they needed the Fists there. Well, that doesn't cover why they were recalled when heresy was unthinkable. I think that the main reason was the Webway. And while the Emperor counted 18 Legions loyal to Him, they were busy fighting and conquering at the galaxy's edge. He likely also knew about the threat of the Tyranids or other gribblies from beyond the stars, and once the Webway was operational it'd need to be insanely well-defended because of its sheer importance. There is also the factor of hostility from much of the Navigator Houses. Some might see an opportunity, but in canon the Paternova perceived it as an existential threat to his kind. Once it was openly unveiled, he would likely have used all his considerable resources to remove that threat. It's important to remember that Dorn was recalled to fortify Terra and possibly the broader Sol system beyond their existing strength, but nothing even approaching what he was ultimately required to do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4661246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 There was a great seminar at a Heresy Weekender a few years ago that detailed both the Imperial Fists and the Iron Warriors, 'Iron and Stone' I recall it being named. It was setup as a comparison between the two Legions from both a Black Library and Forge World perspective. One of the things Alan Bligh talked about to some degree during that seminar was the reason why the Imperial Fists and Dorn were recalled to Terra after Ullanor. The Emperor had Horus as Warmaster, and effectively taking over his position as the figurehead of the Great Crusade, so now the Emperor could go back to Terra and focus on the second of his big plans, which was the Webway. From this Weekender it really became clear to me just how much the Emperor was trying to eliminate the requirement for Psykers within the Imperium, what with the Sisters of Silence and their Black Ships, and the Great Tithe. The Emperor saw the threat that Chaos was over mankind, and saw that the easiest way for it to control and make an impact into mankind was through psychic ability, and there had been a steady increase in the occurrences of psykers in the species. Culling psykers wasn't an immediate option as the Imperium still required the use of Navigators to traverse the Warp and make travel across the Imperium feasible, and also for Astropaths for communicating across large distances. Hence the Emperor planned to use the Webway to get around both of those problems, and to do away with packers for good. The Webway portal that was directly under the Throne Room on Terra was by no coincidence. In order for that to work the Webway would have to be secure, and at that point it was still in disarray with large parts of it under siege from daemons, so before mankind could actively use it as an alternate to Warp travel it would need to be secured, which was the Emperors secret project. The Custodes could be counted on to accompany the Emperor into the Webway and fight to secure it, but another force would be needed to keep the Terran side of the Webway portal secure and a Legion would be ideal for that. Given that there were already psykers being found within the Legions, and indeed the Librarius programme being set up to harness their powers, they wouldn't be suitable to be taken into the Webway so close to the Warp on a warfront that's already beset by daemons that could use and breach through psykers, so they were set on guard duty on Terra. As to why the Imperial Fists were selected, it was mainly because of Dorn. The one thing that the Emperor needed was someone who could follow orders without straying, which was a particular trait that Dorn had. As Alan mentioned in the Iron and Stone seminar, if another Primarch was chosen then very quickly they would either 1) find some way to shirk their duties and return to the Great Crusade or 2) not resist their curiosities about what the Emperor was doing. The particular example was that if Magnus was chosen to guard the door to the Emperors lab and not allow anyone in, he would very quickly be poking his head around the door saying "Hey, what are you working on? That looks interesting, I can help with that!...", whereas Dorn would take those commands to the letter and allow no-one, including himself, to get past. There might be other good choices, Vulkan might be a good choice, but the vast majority of other Primarchs wouldn't. Perturabo would probably take it personally and see it as another slight against his abilities, others might see it as a waste of their abilities and be constantly petitioning to get back to the fighting, and the less said about Kurze or Angron the better when it comes to door duty! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4662771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 There was a great seminar at a Heresy Weekender a few years ago that detailed both the Imperial Fists and the Iron Warriors, 'Iron and Stone' I recall it being named. It was setup as a comparison between the two Legions from both a Black Library and Forge World perspective. One of the things Alan Bligh talked about to some degree during that seminar was the reason why the Imperial Fists and Dorn were recalled to Terra after Ullanor. The Emperor had Horus as Warmaster, and effectively taking over his position as the figurehead of the Great Crusade, so now the Emperor could go back to Terra and focus on the second of his big plans, which was the Webway. From this Weekender it really became clear to me just how much the Emperor was trying to eliminate the requirement for Psykers within the Imperium, what with the Sisters of Silence and their Black Ships, and the Great Tithe. The Emperor saw the threat that Chaos was over mankind, and saw that the easiest way for it to control and make an impact into mankind was through psychic ability, and there had been a steady increase in the occurrences of psykers in the species. Culling psykers wasn't an immediate option as the Imperium still required the use of Navigators to traverse the Warp and make travel across the Imperium feasible, and also for Astropaths for communicating across large distances. Hence the Emperor planned to use the Webway to get around both of those problems, and to do away with packers for good. The Webway portal that was directly under the Throne Room on Terra was by no coincidence. In order for that to work the Webway would have to be secure, and at that point it was still in disarray with large parts of it under siege from daemons, so before mankind could actively use it as an alternate to Warp travel it would need to be secured, which was the Emperors secret project. The Custodes could be counted on to accompany the Emperor into the Webway and fight to secure it, but another force would be needed to keep the Terran side of the Webway portal secure and a Legion would be ideal for that. Given that there were already psykers being found within the Legions, and indeed the Librarius programme being set up to harness their powers, they wouldn't be suitable to be taken into the Webway so close to the Warp on a warfront that's already beset by daemons that could use and breach through psykers, so they were set on guard duty on Terra. As to why the Imperial Fists were selected, it was mainly because of Dorn. The one thing that the Emperor needed was someone who could follow orders without straying, which was a particular trait that Dorn had. As Alan mentioned in the Iron and Stone seminar, if another Primarch was chosen then very quickly they would either 1) find some way to shirk their duties and return to the Great Crusade or 2) not resist their curiosities about what the Emperor was doing. The particular example was that if Magnus was chosen to guard the door to the Emperors lab and not allow anyone in, he would very quickly be poking his head around the door saying "Hey, what are you working on? That looks interesting, I can help with that!...", whereas Dorn would take those commands to the letter and allow no-one, including himself, to get past. There might be other good choices, Vulkan might be a good choice, but the vast majority of other Primarchs wouldn't. Perturabo would probably take it personally and see it as another slight against his abilities, others might see it as a waste of their abilities and be constantly petitioning to get back to the fighting, and the less said about Kurze or Angron the better when it comes to door duty! I would imagine Russ would have been obedient enough as well...of course the Imperial Fists are obviously more suited to guarding and fortifying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4662816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 The idea of Russ shut inside the Palace almost made me snort my pepsi... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4662939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 The idea of Russ shut inside the Palace almost made me snort my pepsi... Oh yeah it would be absurd, just saying Russ is the only other one loyal enough to not question the duty Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4663011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 The idea of Russ shut inside the Palace almost made me snort my pepsi... Oh yeah it would be absurd, just saying Russ is the only other one loyal enough to not question the duty Ferrus Manus would like a word with you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4663014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I think Ferrus would have begrudged being locked up in the palace as well , he was a War Engine , maybe he would have been okay on Mars though if such a thing was needed , but I feel like he wouldnt be terribly keen on doing Imperium structure stuff. Not that he isn't loyal , just it was probably a waste of his talents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331129-why-were-dorn-and-the-if-recalled-to-terra/#findComment-4663017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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