Secutarii Hoplites - Tactics and Modelling question.

[GreatGooglyMoogly]

Hey guys! Been lurking here for a while now, finally decided to sign up and start participating a bit! 

I've been looking at some of the Secutarii stuff recently, and while I can definitely tell that the Peltasts would be highly effective anti-infantry, I'm finding myself really drawn to the Hoplites for their models and their apparent toughness (from their Kyropatris and invuln). But before I drop the money on Forgeworld, I wanted to ask the more senior Tech Priests of their experiences with the Hoplites. 

Primarily, I was wondering how posable the kit is; I know it works off our Vanguard/Ranger kits, so the legs and bodies will need to be paired, but what of the arms? Do they still come in paired sets that only work for one of the torsos? Normally I'd assume that arms not holding a two-handed weapon would not be paired, but I had the thought that maybe they account for the small cables around the specific torso.

Secondly, I was wondering how they work on the table. The bolt pistol shots aren't anything super special (other than Haywire) but a somewhat resilient squad of Arc Maul wielders could be decent against a fair range of targets. But being a Tyranid player before I started Ad Mech last year, I know how painful a 6'' move on an assault unit can be.

Cheers,
GGM.

[Carlson793]

Hoplites are not paired to specific torsos. The arms are far enough out from the body that they don't need to account for any cables. Likewise, spear arm is not paired to a specific shield arm (well, they are, but not in a way you need to adhere to). With the shield separate from the shield arm, and mounting on a ball-and-socket joint, you can arrange the shield to your liking (though the 'ready' spear arms might dictate how you set up those four shields). 

[MajorNese]

Secondly, I was wondering how they work on the table. The bolt pistol shots aren't anything super special (other than Haywire) but a somewhat resilient squad of Arc Maul wielders could be decent against a fair range of targets. But being a Tyranid player before I started Ad Mech last year, I know how painful a 6'' move on an assault unit can be.

As a side note, the 40k rules are still considered experimental until the IA book drops. The recent Inferno version (30k) has the shooting strength increased, which I guess will be the same for the IA version. Not the biggest buff, but at least makes the shooting not that bad, being able to wound most stuff reliable.

 

As for their role, I guess that they are rather a defensive unit. Advance in front of the shooty parts (vanguard, rangers, onagers), shield them from CC units, and keep vehicles at bay. The defensive grenades help in that role, invul and kyropatris buffs should help keep them alive. While the latter are not that powerful only for secutarii, adding a dominus or even Carl makes them really tough. Rerolling saves of 1 is ridiculous with a self-repairing 2+ armour character tanking wounds, and while at 10+ models, reduce incoming shooting strength. If there's too much AP2 shooting, delegate them to secutarii, who also sport an invul and FnP. I guess there are worse units to take, and if fielded in a Skitarii Maniple, can at least scout ahead. Mine are still on the assembly line, have to straighten all those lances first...

[DanPesci]

Point at the nearest super heavy and hope they get there. As long as the get the charge off they should tear it to pieces with that amount of haywire shots/attacks.

 

Never used them myself, they look cool as, however...Issues i can see with them/to discuss

 

- getting them where you want in one piece. 4+/5++ save is ok, but on a T3 1 wound model, they will still die to regular arms fire easily through weight of wounds. attaching a dominus will help somewhat though as he can tank and reroll any 1s on his 2+. The strength mod will help too i guess...im reckoning you maybe want 15 in the unit so you dont lose that as soon as you lose 1 guy...however you're then talking 300+ points to have a unit of 15 with a dominus.

 

- However, keeping them cheap...for a 140points, thats not a bad distraction unit to take fire off your other troops...if your opponent has vehicles they will definately want them dead.

 

- Against lists with no vehicles, they are not going to do much

 

- Against smaller vehicles they have a good chance of overkilling it (10+ haywire shots in the shooting phase with doctrinas boosting their BS will kill most things), leaving them unable to get a charge off. If they do charge, then they should definitely finish most things off in one phase, possibly leaving them open to shooting.

 

- However against a list with multiple SH or tough vehicles, they are going to rule (for example knight lists, land raiders, monoliths etc will HATE these guys)

[GreatGooglyMoogly]

Hoplites are not paired to specific torsos. The arms are far enough out from the body that they don't need to account for any cables. Likewise, spear arm is not paired to a specific shield arm (well, they are, but not in a way you need to adhere to). With the shield separate from the shield arm, and mounting on a ball-and-socket joint, you can arrange the shield to your liking (though the 'ready' spear arms might dictate how you set up those four shields). 

That's really good to hear! I was hoping I wouldn't have to have squads of clones. How's the pairing to the torsos? Are there any small gaps between the pieces that I will need to fix up with some liquid green stuff? This will be my first time buying stuff from Forge World, so I'm not very experienced with their upgrade kits. Or their kits in general, really.

 

 

 

 

As for their role, I guess that they are rather a defensive unit. Advance in front of the shooty parts (vanguard, rangers, onagers), shield them from CC units, and keep vehicles at bay. The defensive grenades help in that role, invul and kyropatris buffs should help keep them alive. While the latter are not that powerful only for secutarii, adding a dominus or even Carl makes them really tough. Rerolling saves of 1 is ridiculous with a self-repairing 2+ armour character tanking wounds, and while at 10+ models, reduce incoming shooting strength. If there's too much AP2 shooting, delegate them to secutarii, who also sport an invul and FnP. I guess there are worse units to take, and if fielded in a Skitarii Maniple, can at least scout ahead. Mine are still on the assembly line, have to straighten all those lances first...

 

 

Point at the nearest super heavy and hope they get there. As long as the get the charge off they should tear it to pieces with that amount of haywire shots/attacks.

 

Never used them myself, they look cool as, however...Issues i can see with them/to discuss

 

- getting them where you want in one piece. 4+/5++ save is ok, but on a T3 1 wound model, they will still die to regular arms fire easily through weight of wounds. attaching a dominus will help somewhat though as he can tank and reroll any 1s on his 2+. The strength mod will help too i guess...im reckoning you maybe want 15 in the unit so you dont lose that as soon as you lose 1 guy...however you're then talking 300+ points to have a unit of 15 with a dominus.

 

- However, keeping them cheap...for a 140points, thats not a bad distraction unit to take fire off your other troops...if your opponent has vehicles they will definately want them dead.

 

- Against lists with no vehicles, they are not going to do much

 

- Against smaller vehicles they have a good chance of overkilling it (10+ haywire shots in the shooting phase with doctrinas boosting their BS will kill most things), leaving them unable to get a charge off. If they do charge, then they should definitely finish most things off in one phase, possibly leaving them open to shooting.

 

- However against a list with multiple SH or tough vehicles, they are going to rule (for example knight lists, land raiders, monoliths etc will HATE these guys)

 

 

Yeah, they kinda sound like they wouldn't be the most competitive/min-maxed unit to take, but that's fine with me; I can just use them in my more low-power/casual games.

 

On a related note, what was the end result of the FAQs regarding Battle-Brothers and transports? More specifically, what happened with the weirdness of the Imperial Navy part of the Imperial Agents not being able to actually transport anything? A bunch of techno-spearmen doing a Grav-Chute Insertion sounds too badass to pass up if it is possible.

[MajorNese]

 

On a related note, what was the end result of the FAQs regarding Battle-Brothers and transports? More specifically, what happened with the weirdness of the Imperial Navy part of the Imperial Agents not being able to actually transport anything? A bunch of techno-spearmen doing a Grav-Chute Insertion sounds too badass to pass up if it is possible.

AFAIK, units cannot deploy in allied transports, which is why the navy valkyries can't carry anyone, as they're allies. Only option would be to deploy next to an allied transport, let's say a Land Raider, and embark on the first turn. Which won't work well with valkyries (come from reserve 2nd turn, hover 3rd turn and embark, grav chute 4th turn). Only hope is that the IA book will enable the Triaros for 40k AdMech, everything else is complicated to use, though non-dedicated non-flyer transports (like said LandRaider) are not too bad.

[Xisor]

 

 

On a related note, what was the end result of the FAQs regarding Battle-Brothers and transports? More specifically, what happened with the weirdness of the Imperial Navy part of the Imperial Agents not being able to actually transport anything? A bunch of techno-spearmen doing a Grav-Chute Insertion sounds too badass to pass up if it is possible.

 

AFAIK, units cannot deploy in allied transports, which is why the navy valkyries can't carry anyone, as they're allies. Only option would be to deploy next to an allied transport, let's say a Land Raider, and embark on the first turn. Which won't work well with valkyries (come from reserve 2nd turn, hover 3rd turn and embark, grav chute 4th turn). Only hope is that the IA book will enable the Triaros for 40k AdMech, everything else is complicated to use, though non-dedicated non-flyer transports (like said LandRaider) are not too bad.

Am I right in saying that doesn't apply if you just unbound the list? E.g. A Skitarii maniple, but instead of getting the crusader/scout/warlord rules, you just pop in some transports?

[MajorNese]

Nope, doesn't work AFAIK. And cashing out on that could be risky, I know an IG player now stuck with half a dozen drop pods. Wait on the IA, pick non-dedicated non-flyers, or wait for next edition to maybe clear it up.

[Tiger9gamer]

yea, they buggered up the allied transports (I could have sworn it said we could start in eachother's transports in the main rulebook. the best games I played was skitarii in rhinos so it was fun)

 

but good news everyone! In 30k they can take the trios tank, so it will probably be the same in 40k too. if so, then the unit will total to around 275 points for what amounts to a guided missile of haywire.