Legion Tank Organization?

[ShadowCore67]

Hi all!

I was simply wondering if there is any set organization of the legions' armored companies? I know there's the chart that lays out the legions by chapter, battalion, company, etc. But that chart doesn't give much detail on how the vehicles are organized. Is there anything out there that elaborates on it more or am I free to organize it as I see fit? I'm trying to stay as fluffy as possible with my army.

Thanks!

[Kol Saresk]

Well, technically that chart does include your armor. Like the real world, the tanks and artillery are either mixed in with the infantry, or are their own individual companies(batteries for artilly 'cuz they're the king of the battle) which would just be "companies on the chart.

 

But oretty much everything is "as you see fit" since the chart is only the Legions' makeup before the Primarchs showed and started mucking it all up.

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

Unfortunately I don't think there is additional information about legion organization (at least I haven't seen any) besides the one in the picture you already mentioned. That one does, however, answer at least part of your question. Allow me to elaborate:

 

The organization chart and the armored assets on each level are organized in levels thusly:

 

Legion - Legion Armorium

Chapter - Chapter Armorium & Legion Armored Divisions

Battalion - Superheavy Divisions & Support Artillery Detachments

Company - Rhino Armored Transports & Tank Detachments

Squad

 

This gives us guidance on how the armored units are organized and how they reflect (as Kol Saresk mentions) how they are either mixed or are their own companies. Going down from the top it tells us that:

 

On a legion level there are some armored assets that are centralized in the Legion Armorium and that these are assigned to specific chapters by the legion's command staff. This would include the personal transports of the Primarch (such as Perturabo's Tormentor) and probably any capitol imperialis' or other epic-scale armored assets a legion has. I doubt any legion would have sicarans or land raiders at this level, as it wouldn't make sense for the command staff to be assigning these. This also tells us that at least on the template level there would not be any armored chapters (although I can imagine this could have been changed by the primarch).

 

On a chapter level you have the chapter armorium and legion armored divisions. Of these the chapter armorium would probably consist of specialized and more rare superheavies such as the Glaives that are then used in engagements where the chapter is involved or assigned to the battalions / companies as they are needed. The legion armored divisions would look much like any modern armored division (except more grimdark): it would have the main battle line tank regiments supported by field artillery regiments and scouting armor regiments. For the 30K era the main battle line tanks would probably consist of predators, sicarans or land raiders and the legion artillery tanks cover the field artillery regiments. There is no clear scouting armor for space marine legions yet, but a mechanized infantry regiment could work in that role (recon / tactical squads with rhinoes, essentially). It is not clear whether the legions ever had Fellblades in the numbers it would require for them to work as the main battle line tanks of these armored divisions and I would think that this would be one area where the more tank heavy legions (Iron Hands come to mind) would differ from the legions that have less of a focus on armored might (like the Blood Angels).

 

 

 

Now this is where it gets a bit murky as, for example, the tank commander Orth of the Iron Hands is mentioned to be in command of the "Subjugator" armored battalion. This would seem to be contradicting the structure where some actual battalions would be overlapping the aforementioned legion armored divisions in content and role. I posit, however, that the Iron Hands would just call their legion armored divisions armored battalions and give them names like "Subjugator" to identify them.

 

 

On a battalion level you first have support artillery detachments and these would then be detachments consisting entirely of whirlwinds, medusas and basilisks and their support staff. These would again be deployed either as a whole when the situation requires an immense artillery presence or individual units would be assigned out of it by the battalion command staff if a part of the battle line required some localized artillery support. The superheavy detachments would work in much the same way, although I would imagine that using them all in the same field of battle would be much more rare than it would be with the support artillery detachments.

 

On a company level you have the rhino transports that would then be assigned to the squads as they are needed so probably no individual rhinoes for each squad but rather a pool of rhinoes from which squads would get their transports when needed. Tank detachments would be squads of sicarans, vindicators and predators where they are rarely deployed altogether and en masse but rather some vindicators would be assigned to support squads that need close fire support, some predators to support squads advancing into hostile territory etc. If a company would identify a situation where it would require a massive armored deployment, the request would be passed upwards and either several companies in the same warzone pool their armored assets to form an armored division (unpreferable solution) or the chapter would assign a legion armored division to the warzone (the preferable solution).

 

There, I hope this helps give you some idea on how I think the legions would have originally utilized their armored assets based on the information given in the (only) picture that we have. Depending on the legion though, by the time we got to Horus throwing a fit the organization could have been wildly different.

 

Best regards,

G

[Harrowmaster]

The armoured breakthrough ROW gives a structure by allowing one pred or sicaran in HQ, sicarans in elites and basic preds in troops

[ShadowCore67]

Unfortunately I don't think there is additional information about legion organization (at least I haven't seen any) besides the one in the picture you already mentioned. That one does, however, answer at least part of your question. Allow me to elaborate:

 

The organization chart and the armored assets on each level are organized in levels thusly:

 

Legion - Legion Armorium

Chapter - Chapter Armorium & Legion Armored Divisions

Battalion - Superheavy Divisions & Support Artillery Detachments

Company - Rhino Armored Transports & Tank Detachments

Squad

 

This gives us guidance on how the armored units are organized and how they reflect (as Kol Saresk mentions) how they are either mixed or are their own companies. Going down from the top it tells us that:

 

On a legion level there are some armored assets that are centralized in the Legion Armorium and that these are assigned to specific chapters by the legion's command staff. This would include the personal transports of the Primarch (such as Perturabo's Tormentor) and probably any capitol imperialis' or other epic-scale armored assets a legion has. I doubt any legion would have sicarans or land raiders at this level, as it wouldn't make sense for the command staff to be assigning these. This also tells us that at least on the template level there would not be any armored chapters (although I can imagine this could have been changed by the primarch).

 

On a chapter level you have the chapter armorium and legion armored divisions. Of these the chapter armorium would probably consist of specialized and more rare superheavies such as the Glaives that are then used in engagements where the chapter is involved or assigned to the battalions / companies as they are needed. The legion armored divisions would look much like any modern armored division (except more grimdark): it would have the main battle line tank regiments supported by field artillery regiments and scouting armor regiments. For the 30K era the main battle line tanks would probably consist of predators, sicarans or land raiders and the legion artillery tanks cover the field artillery regiments. There is no clear scouting armor for space marine legions yet, but a mechanized infantry regiment could work in that role (recon / tactical squads with rhinoes, essentially). It is not clear whether the legions ever had Fellblades in the numbers it would require for them to work as the main battle line tanks of these armored divisions and I would think that this would be one area where the more tank heavy legions (Iron Hands come to mind) would differ from the legions that have less of a focus on armored might (like the Blood Angels).

 

 

 

Now this is where it gets a bit murky as, for example, the tank commander Orth of the Iron Hands is mentioned to be in command of the "Subjugator" armored battalion. This would seem to be contradicting the structure where some actual battalions would be overlapping the aforementioned legion armored divisions in content and role. I posit, however, that the Iron Hands would just call their legion armored divisions armored battalions and give them names like "Subjugator" to identify them.

 

 

On a battalion level you first have support artillery detachments and these would then be detachments consisting entirely of whirlwinds, medusas and basilisks and their support staff. These would again be deployed either as a whole when the situation requires an immense artillery presence or individual units would be assigned out of it by the battalion command staff if a part of the battle line required some localized artillery support. The superheavy detachments would work in much the same way, although I would imagine that using them all in the same field of battle would be much more rare than it would be with the support artillery detachments.

 

On a company level you have the rhino transports that would then be assigned to the squads as they are needed so probably no individual rhinoes for each squad but rather a pool of rhinoes from which squads would get their transports when needed. Tank detachments would be squads of sicarans, vindicators and predators where they are rarely deployed altogether and en masse but rather some vindicators would be assigned to support squads that need close fire support, some predators to support squads advancing into hostile territory etc. If a company would identify a situation where it would require a massive armored deployment, the request would be passed upwards and either several companies in the same warzone pool their armored assets to form an armored division (unpreferable solution) or the chapter would assign a legion armored division to the warzone (the preferable solution).

 

There, I hope this helps give you some idea on how I think the legions would have originally utilized their armored assets based on the information given in the (only) picture that we have. Depending on the legion though, by the time we got to Horus throwing a fit the organization could have been wildly different.

 

Best regards,

G

Thanks for that amazing in depth reply! I'll be sure to refer to this when expanding my legion :D

[Demonl]

I always like to think that an actual amoured breakthrough company would all be superheavies.

[Nova_Dew]

I would like to point out that the legions did have scout tanks... ok heavy scout tanks the Land Raider Proteus with Explotaror Auguary Web. 

 

Fluff wise the Land Raider is the Main Battle Tank of the legion, Predators being medium battle tanks (I wonder if the precursor to the Razorback was a light battle tank, maybe with a standard auto-cannon or twin linked auto-cannons, but i digress)... on second thoughts maybe a precursor Razorback with an option to add the Explotaror Auguary Web could be the Scout tank.

[quinnwolf]

I always like to think that an actual amoured breakthrough company would all be superheavies.

I like that you share a bed with 5 Super Heavy Tanks. Still cheaper than a spouse.

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

I would like to point out that the legions did have scout tanks... ok heavy scout tanks the Land Raider Proteus with Explotaror Auguary Web.

Fluff wise the Land Raider is the Main Battle Tank of the legion, Predators being medium battle tanks (I wonder if the precursor to the Razorback was a light battle tank, maybe with a standard auto-cannon or twin linked auto-cannons, but i digress)... on second thoughts maybe a precursor Razorback with an option to add the Explotaror Auguary Web could be the Scout tank.

I thought about mentioning these, but until we get information about the proto-razorback I don't know yet if it fits the bill. If we get something that is lightly armored and lightly armed, but with a small transport capacity (a la Stryker / Bradley / CV90 etc.) I think that would fill the hole that currently exists. The problem with this is that the Land Raider doesn't really fit our modern depiction of what a main battle tank should be due to it's transport capacity and even if we allow for that, I think we can assume that the legions had a lot more predators than land raiders in their armory (during the heresy all land raiders were decreed to be only for use by the legions as there were not enough of them while no similar statement was made concerning predators).

*Snip*

Thanks for that amazing in depth reply! I'll be sure to refer to this when expanding my legion

No problem, always happy to help a fellow Dark Angel... *takes a closer look at the profile picture* wait a minute...?!

[Noserenda]

Slowly building an armoured Battalion here for my Alpha Legion, which was mixed roughly 2:1 Armour to Mech Infantry. On the Company level i was using one Company command to three squadrons with an supporting ARV and Damocles (For Battalion command). I figured the Companies would be all equipped with the same Vehicle, possible with sub patterns in squadrons.

So for example, Assassin Company was 10 Mars Predators, 1 Hephastus ARV, 1 Damocles
Whislt Infidel Company was 10 Deimos Predators (And 1 Hephastus ARV) but were divided by squadron into Infernus/Executioner etc :)

Hope that helps too? 

[Marshal Rohr]

According to the chart Legion Armored Divisions are Chapter level assets, so true tank companies and not heavy infantry formations will be Chapter level deployments.

[K3nn3rs]

Which book is this chart in?

 

I don't have the first 2 books...

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

It is in the first one, but you can also find pictures of it online.

[Vodunius]

I always like to think that an actual amoured breakthrough company would all be superheavies.

 

 

To quote the description of the Rite of War: "When a Legiones Astartes force gives battle on a planetary scale, it often deploys a mass of far-ranging

armoured vehicles, their orders to push ahead of the line companies and punch through enemy lines in order to sow death and confusion in rear areas."

This is consistent with my understanding of the term in the real-world: The purpose of an armoured breakthrough is not to demolish the enemies front-line units (though it's nice if you can), it's to deliver your front-line units into the enemies rear echelons in order to cause the collapse their entire army. This requires an element of speed in order to exploit the break you've made before the enemy can reinforce their rear lines. superslow tanks not really overly useful in that regard.