Dawnstrider Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 So after playing my first game with the Grand Convocation, I can tell it is going to have an impact on our list building going forward. How profound is what I want to try to flesh out. Especially our previous conclusions we came to about certain units and wargear. I went up against a few pretty nasty lists at a recent tournament and came way 3 point away from the top spot so can offer a little insight to get us going. My list looked like this: Grand Convocation Belisarius Cawl ~ Refractor Field Dominus ~ Conversion Field ~ Memento-Mortispex (Cognis, Monster Hunter, Sky Fire, or Tank hunter) Dominus ~ Conversion Field ~ Omnisiah’s Grace (3++) Vanguard (10) x2 ~ Omnispex ~ Arc Rifle x3 Rangers (10) ~ Omnispex ~ Arc Rifle x3 Breachers (4) Destroyers (5) Onager Dunecrawler (3) ~ Neutron Laser x3 ~ Heavy Stubber My Priests jumped around from game to game based on my opponents army composition. The relic that can grant Monster Hunter, Skyfire, or Tank Hunter is so versatile I will never leave home without it again. If I had run into any flyers, that Dominus would have set up with the breachers. As it was, it spent every game with Carl and the Destroyers. Carl or course tanks like a boss. Went up against a list with 3 riptides, Shadowsun and a Stormsurge. By the time Carl went down, that units had killing two riptides. The other priest with Omnisiah's Grace relic just stuck with the breachers tanking wounds for them. So with all this in mind, I think we should revisit our previous conclusions. Like Transuranic Arquebus, for example. having three of them in a unit with a Dominus tanking for them suddenly becomes a lot more viable given they can now have access to Monster Hunter, Sky Fire, or Tank Hunter. Strength 4 many not be much but adding Tank Hunter to Armourbane doubles their reliability. Same goes for Monster Hunter. Even Sky Fire could make the Arquebus Useful since an average roll of Armourbane puts the pen roll at 11, enough to glance or pen most fliers. And with a range the reaches across the board, it will be really easy for an opponent to forget they have such range and turn their flier to give you a rear armor shot. And with Skitarii easy access to high BS, there is a high chance to hit with Skyfire and high change to do damage or at least force a jink, at 5+ thanks to Omnispex. It will cost you 135 points and an HQ slot for the Dominus babysitter, but once again, its a pretty versatile unit. As a side benefit, the unit will benefit from Shroudpsalm as well. Then there is the Power of the machine spirit for members of the Grand Convocation. Has obvious uses with full Onager units to take advantage of the improved save. Between the Neutron Laser, Icarus Array, and the Beamer, they can be armed to handle any target. Because of this I am seriously considering a list with 9 Onagers split into three units with two Lasers in each unit and two of the units with Beamers for their third gun and the last with the Array. Then as many vanguard with Arc Rifles as I can fit after that. Probably be about 50 or so. And then there are the Fulgurite Priests. Wel still may not have a transport for them, but we have Carl. It takes an unholy amount of firepower to bring Carl down so its pretty same to assume that if they run their first turn they should be able to catch something to kill on turn 2 and still be at full model count thanks to Carl. After that they may make a good deathstar hunter simply because if Carl starts taking to many wounds he can pass them off onto 3++ models until he heals next turn. I would see a 400 point investment here tying up if not destroying an 800 point deathstar. Especially when litany of the Electromancer is used. Many deathstars have FNP as part of their recipe for survival and the Instant death from the priests would help there as well. This niche is probably a little to narrow to make them totally useful in a list but hopefully someone else can come if with more uses for them. This would be another unit I might put into my tournament list above. Moving Carl around based on what I faced across the table. Deathstar? Put him with the priests. Flier? With the Breachers etc... I can also see some nice potential in the Robots where a datasmith has the relic to give Monster Hunter, Tank Hunter, or Skyfire. I think it would benefit us to go over our units again with these relics, Carl, and the Detachments in mind to see if we can get some use out of units and wargear previously thought to be traps. I would be interested to hear others experiences with the new Gathering Storm rules also. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magos Takatus Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Out of all the feedback you have here I find the interesting niche for the Transuranic Arquebus most curious. The imagery of a squad of Rangers bringing down aircraft with rifles is pretty amazing. I've not completed my army yet but it sounds like there might be more reasons to tempt people away from the cookie-cutter formations. I'm glad you've got a list with a lot of Dominus models as I would expect many of us have a small pile of them from the start collecting bundles. If you go Onager heavy, even more so. :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4666921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 While working on list building for the mechanicus/skitarii contingent of my Knight Household I was looking over the rules for Cawl and the Mechanicus relics and I also found them quite intriguing for some of the combinations that can be used. Turning a Conversion Field into a 3+ onto a model that heals a wound on a 2+ every turn for just ten points is quite interesting, for thrice that giving an entire unit a potent special rule every turn is also quite powerful. Even things like the Autopurger and Autorepulser could be used to build some interesting anti-deathstars. Put a couple cheap Engineseers into a squad of Electropriests with both of those relics and suddenly opponents have a much harder time getting into close combat and then they do, or you do, they are taking wounds at the Initiative 10 step.Obviously the Quantum Annihilator seems geared to draw a lot of attention but IMO the other options open up far more interesting possibilities with list building and tactics than another potent gun. I should also point out that including Cawl or Celestine into any Imperial army grants the Mechanicus or Ecclesiarchy relics to any characters in those armies who can take a relic. For the price of those two characters thrown into a CAD or ally detachment there are suddenly a lot of interesting options that open up for some very diverse and nasty list building. 3+ save space marines or Grey Knights without storm shields, Eternal Warrior, or heck Skyfire Grav Centurions!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4666927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Quite a few interesting points, though the army concept in general is more interesting for me than most individual unit combos. With your focus on longer-ranged units and no fast units, what would you consider your list's drawbacks or hard counters? Maelstrom points? Vanguard speed? CC? How did using the Grand Convocation work out, lacking the Scout part of the skitarii detachment? Though the onager Machine Spirit thing sounds useful, I'd have preferred the mobility, though I usually field more vanguard and dragoons who rely on it. Wouldn't have been much of an issue to change the list to a skitarii detachment and a cult CAD, this would just decrease the HQ slots by 1 (hello, relic-carrying inquisitor). Haven't used Carl much so far, so how exactly did it work out, besides Carl tanking everything not ID? With Carl joining destroyers and a dominus, what was his usual placing, center field? The servitors preventing Run moves kinda requires it to get into range, though this draws a lot of fire. At least the dominus could repair Carl too. Did the unit ever get into CC, or did everyone stay away from it? Carl joining fulgurites just gives two drawbacks on paper: Majority toughness 3, wounding Carl a lot with bad weaponry, and no delivery system. Evading Carl would be not that hard I guess. My only approach of Carl joining T3 units would be Hoplites/Peltasts, as the kyropatris generators would give him a rerollable 2+ armour and -1S on first hits, making him even harder to kill, not easier. Also, a few relics sound quite useful in the right hands. Autopurger on a CC Kastelan's datasmith to kill tarpits (building a CC one, because rule of cool), autopurger on rad-grenade inquisitor joining vanguard (tarpit insta-kill), quantum gun on Hoplites (otherwise no ranged punch) or sicarians (surprising, big threat range). Mortispex is so universally useful, there is probably no imperial faction that would have no use for it. Tank hunter devastators, skyfire whatever-AT-unit, heck monster hunter/cognis recruit blobs *lol*. Requiring a dominus to carry it is an acceptable tax IMO, the flexibility of deciding during deployment/game and having a tanky swiss martian army knife seems worth it. Having the choice of skyfiring breachers/destroyers (with +1BS Carlticle) is probably even better than an onager's icarus array, but never wasted against armies that don't include flyers as someone will have a use for the relic. At least the rainment of the technomartyr became redundant, the mortispex choosing between several powerful rules including the one the rainment offers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4666990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnstrider Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 Ok, so if I built this list, I am am sure I will soon, it would look something like this: Belisarius Cawl 200 Dominus (Fred) 140 ~ Conversion Field ~ Memento-Mortispex (Cognis, Monster Hunter, Sky Fire, or Tank hunter) Dominus (George) 120 ~ Conversion Field ~ Omnisiah’s Grace (3++) Dunecrawler (3) x2 335 ~ Neutron Laser x2 ~ Eradication Beamer x1 ~ Extra Heavy Stubber x3 Dunecrawler (3) 130 ~ Neutron Laser x2 ~ Icarus Array x1 ~ Extra Heavy Stubber x3 Rangers (10) 205 ~ Arquebus x3 ~ Omnispex ~ Fred goes here Vanguard (10) x2 250 ~ Arc Rifle x3 ~ Omnispex ~ Carl and George go here Vanguard (5) x7 455 ~ Arc Rifle x2 1850 Fred and the Rangers will act as a catch-all to help with fliers, monsters or armor. Each priest and their unit will stick close to an Onager unit for Machine spirit and repairs. I think that with this much MSU, most armies will have a problem dealing with this army. And the look on the Gladius Strikeforce players face when they realize you are capable of destroying 10+ transports a turn will be priceless. My biggest concern would be an alpha strike that consists on lots of blast weapons since my deployment zone will be pretty jam packed until I get a movement phase. I think this army has quite a bit of potential for all comers. It has 20 Arc Rifles, 6 Neutron Lasers, 3 Tank hunting Arquebus and Carl for tank busting. Meaning a 5 knight list will be hard put to get through it. If they want to not be put down by all the arc rifles they will have to use their blast weapons to take them out leaving the Neutron Lasers untouched. Horde lists will be a threat for multi charging and taking out several units a turn but between all the Carbines, Eradication Beamers, Volkite Blasters and Neutron Lasers I think it has horde armies covered. Demon summoning gets the same treatment. They can't assault the turn they are summoned and with poor saves, skyfire, and rad poisoning its good. Anyhow, on to other things. Missing scout did not really hinder me at all i felt. The lack of mobility never hindered me at all. Two of the three rounds I played in were against gunlines and the other was a skitarii grey-knight mix. If the games had been closer so that linebreaker had been more of a factor I might have felt the loss of mobility more since I only got linebreaker in one game. Other than that, no real loss. I placed Carl and the destroyers midfield in each game. I was never should with in ID weapon and the one time I was worried that he might reach a quick end was when my last opponent spent all his marker lights to make sure the D missiles from the Stormsurge hit. Then he roll 3 1's on the D chart, so that was awesome. At least I thought so anyhow. Carl tanks like a boss and has and imposing presence on the battlefield. He never once got into combat and the one time he died it took the Tau player 3 riptides with them using their Hailfire rule to kill him. Other than these he just tanked wound. If I had come up agains a knight, I would have played him more aggressively but in every game his just made his way midfield and stayed there with his destroyers. On the relic side, Autorepulsor sound like it wound be useful on a Sicarian Princep that is outflanking or infiltrating. Between the -2 from the relic and the -2 from infiltrating into cover may keep them from being charged turn 1. The Quantum Annihilator seems to expensive to me since it suffers from C'TAN syndrome. You choice of target has to be chosen before the strength roll is made. Meaning the only thing you can reliably shoot it as units that aren't really all that dangerous anyhow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 There was a bigger tournament in Berlin last weekend, and second place out of 42 (if I remember correct) included the Grand Convocation. Grand Convocation 4x1 Tech Priest 4x5 Vanguard 1x2 Dragoons Skitarii Maniple 2x5 Vanguard 2x2 Dragoons Shrine of the Aquila Battle Congregation Carl 1x3 Breachers 1x3 Destroyer 1x5 E-Priests Maybe multiple Tech Priests are the way to go now for competative gaming... ... but I am wondering why no one used the Dominus Maniple up to now for the same purpose? 3 Dominus Maniple plus Carl in a Battle Congregation are about 1250 points, so 600 points left to spend on an extra Skitarii Maniple or more Cult units in the Battle Congregation. Edit: But good to see that I (and many others) might have been wrong with the Grand Convocation. Seems like it actually DOES give us some more options with a proper punch ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Interesting to see unusual approaches work out. The tech priests are extremely points-efficient, versatile and tanky, so they're hardly a bad choice. Though 4 + Carl seems pretty high, considering each is worth more than 10 vanguard. The electro priests seem weird, but adding up all the priests actually makes the list reach the 8+ level for the Carlticles, handing out the hard buffs. Adding techpriests to all but one vanguard unit and giving almost the entire army Stealth + Shrouded for a turn doesn't seem bad at all. In this list, the bonus of the Grand Convocation is just reduced to IWND for 2 dragoons, which is worse than ObSec vanguard or Scout any day. The reason the list didn't use four Dominus Maniples seems to be the lack of Onagers (or detachment limit), otherwise it would have had a situational bonus, but a bonus at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 When saying "Tech Priests" I'm assuming enginseers? Or is that a full 4 Dominus? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 When saying "Tech Priests" I'm assuming enginseers? Or is that a full 4 Dominus? Dominus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Hoooooly.... That is a lot of Doms! I'm still not sold on the Grand Convocation, other than slots for priests, what did it really bring? Do you have loudouts for those vanguard? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Hoooooly.... That is a lot of Doms! I'm still not sold on the Grand Convocation, other than slots for priests, what did it really bring? PotMS for onagers is nice, finally a way to use full squadrons and their stacking invul. Also, greater freedom in slots: HQs without Dominus Maniple, single servitor units possible, a lot more FA slots for single dragoons. Only having 2 slots per Skitarii Maniple is a hindrance when fielding a lot, this way 4 troops equals 6 dragoons. IWND is a nice bonus, but with all the dominii around, and the Carlticle, not ultimately necessary. Essentially, IWND, PotMS and stacking invul with a resilient priest (or Carl) nearby could enable Onagers to act a lot more offensive, instead of single ones camping home objectives and playing neutron artillery. More tools for the toolbox... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Yeah that is true enough. I suppose the biggest thing I'd miss is the lack of canticles on the Skitarii - though considering you'll get the cover one anyway from just having a priest around, not too big an issue. Plus the other detachments/ formations are so versatile that you can basically just mix and match to whatever suits your need. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Plus the other detachments/ formations are so versatile that you can basically just mix and match to whatever suits your need. The low entry level for the skitarii maniple has its uses too. Scout is neat, but there aren't enough good positions on the field to scout an entire list to (i.e. 50 vanguard, several dragoons,...). So there's always the option to take the Grand Convocation for the second line and onwards, and separate the forward elements into a Skitarii Maniple to gain Scout. GC has more than enough slots to take any desired unit, no need to put let's say Onagers into the Skitarii Maniple, or cluster multiple dragoons into one of the limited maniple FA slots. Meanwile the Maniple has enough slots for the scouting elements, and can contain any non-compulsory unit that does not benefit from the GC anyway. Upside: Adding Carl to a scouting unit gets him up the field faster. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Given how dirty the War Convocation is considered locally, Grand Convocation is a nice alternative that will not generate immediate ire. I think Cawl and his Relic list opened up quite a few new tactics, especially for Kataphrons/Kastelans, which were already "decent" but needed a bit of love. I have yet to test the Arch-Dominus on the field but from what I'm seeing he's a significant meta shift for the AdMech in general. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 War Convo is a rigid sledgehammer, heavily buffing all units while limiting the choices extremely (which I consider just boring, like quad riptide). Though definitely beardy for pickup games, not exactly tournament material after the FAQ removed the rent-a-pod shenanigans. Grand Convo is the exact opposite, giving a lesser buff while opening up even more slots and enabling easier combinations of the different AdMech codices. Carl being the new must-have and opening up even more options through relics, tanking for glasshammer units and throwing in his Carlticles, opens up even more options to try something new. I guess this thread is a good example of new approaches. Will give it a try at the next opportunity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Hoooooly.... That is a lot of Doms! I'm still not sold on the Grand Convocation, other than slots for priests, what did it really bring? Do you have loudouts for those vanguard? From Bentagon https://www.gw-fanworld.net/showthread.php/228448-MOB-VII-Armeelistenthread/page3 ++ Grand Convocation (Hauptkontingent) (Codex:Cult Mechanicus, Codex:Skitarii, Supplement: The Gathering Storm:Fall of Cadia) ++ + HQ (535pts) + ········Tech-Priest Dominus (120pts) [Conversion field, Omnissiah's Grace] [WARLORD] ········Tech-Priest Dominus (140pts) [Conversion field, Memento-Mortispex] ········Tech-Priest Dominus (140pts) [Conversion field, Quantum Annihilator] ········Tech-Priest Dominus (135pts) [Conversion field, Saint Curia's Autopurger ] + Troops (250pts) + ········4 x Skitarii Vanguards (70pts) [1x Arc Rifle] …............Vanguard Alpha ········4 x Skitarii Vanguards (70pts) [1x Arc Rifle] …............Vanguard Alpha ········4 x Skitarii Vanguards (55pts) …............Vanguard Alpha ········4 x Skitarii Vanguards (55pts) …............Vanguard Alpha + Fast Attack (90pts) + ········2 x Sydonian Dragoons (90pts) ············Sydonian Dragoon [Taser lance] ············Sydonian Dragoon [Taser lance] ++ Skitarii Maniple (Codex:Skitarii) ++ + Troops (170pts) + ········4 x Skitarii Vanguards (85pts) [Omnispex] ············Vanguard Alpha [Pater Radium] ········4 x Skitarii Vanguards (85pts) [2x Arc Rifle] …............Vanguard Alpha + Fast Attack (180pts) + ········2 x Sydonian Dragoons (90pts) ············Sydonian Dragoon [Taser lance] ············Sydonian Dragoon [Taser lance] ········2 x Sydonian Dragoons (90pts) ············Sydonian Dragoon [Taser lance] ············Sydonian Dragoon [Taser lance] + Fortification (20pts) + ········Shrine of the Aquila (20pts) ++ Battle Congregation (Codex:Cult Mechanicus) ++ + HQ (200pts) + ········Belisarius Cawl (200pts) + Troops (315pts) + ········Kataphron Breachers (150pts) ············Kataphron Breacher [Arc claw, Torsion cannon] ············Kataphron Breacher [Arc claw, Torsion cannon] ············Kataphron Breacher [Arc claw, Torsion cannon] ········Kataphron Destroyers (165pts) ············Kataphron Destroyer [Heavy grav-cannon, Phosphor blaster] ············Kataphron Destroyer [Heavy grav-cannon, Phosphor blaster] ············Kataphron Destroyer [Heavy grav-cannon, Phosphor blaster] + Elites (90pts) + ········Fulgurite Electro-Priests (90pts) ….............[5x Fulgurite Electro-Priest] ++ 1850pts ++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Veeeeeery interesting. 5 Man Vanguard squads feel a little light and using an arc rifle with them seems very counter intuitive to what they should be shooting with their S3 guns... But otherwise very cool. I'd probably pass on Dragoons purely because they have a really poor money to points ratio value... :P Does the Dominus with the rules-giver-relic go with the Breachers? Because Torsion cannons with Tank Hunter are MONEYYY Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Does the Dominus with the rules-giver-relic go with the Breachers? Because Torsion cannons with Tank Hunter are MONEYYY Sounds plausible, though I guess it will be decided on deployment. BS3 with one shot seems bad, but +3 BS and Tank Hunter/Monster Hunter makes them really awesome for a round. Interesting to see 4 out of 6 Carl relics in use. As for the single arc rifles, I guess it serves rather as a deterrent. No one can kill/tie up all vanguards at once, but the insane skitarii accuracy means 2 squads (each with one model remaining) will kill a LandRaider, if in rapid fire range. Or one arc rifle and a charging Dominus. What I find confusing is adding the quantum gun, but no handheld eradication beamers for the dominii. Those are cheaper and offer reliable anti-MEQ to anti-TEQ, which is in otherwise short supply. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
newdigitalGK Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 So from my uses I've noted putting Carl with T3 troops to tank is a bad idea easy to wound a lot, and he's not fearless... which can be bad especially in CC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 So from my uses I've noted putting Carl with T3 troops to tank is a bad idea easy to wound a lot, and he's not fearless... which can be bad especially in CC I can see running Cawl attached to a Cohort Cybernetica with the Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land on the Dominus making for an extremely tough to kill unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 That's a good point, though Cawl can hand out IWND via his Canticles anyway, so it's moderately redundant. I suppose he'd get it every turn, though . . . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnstrider Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 Carl would also work well in a Holy Requisitioner. Being able to deepstrike without scatter with his super meltagun. And with breachers to back him up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
newdigitalGK Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 I haven't thought of the holy requistioner... that's not bad but I would still be worried about being bogged down in CC, Cohort Cybernetica I think would be a better if not more expensive way to go, actually having just cohort cybernetica with Skitarii battle maniple isn't that bad really in my mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 I haven't thought of the holy requistioner... that's not bad but I would still be worried about being bogged down in CC, Cohort Cybernetica I think would be a better if not more expensive way to go, actually having just cohort cybernetica with Skitarii battle maniple isn't that bad really in my mind. Cohort Cybernetica. When the super resilient, self-repairing tank character uses super resilient, self-repairing robots to tank for him. Holy Requisitioner has upside and downside Carls big base size. It should be rather easy to block the most interesting objective markers, but once Carl is in position, the breachers should fit somewhere along his base. Though the entire unit has quite a footprint. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 So from my uses I've noted putting Carl with T3 troops to tank is a bad idea easy to wound a lot, and he's not fearless... which can be bad especially in CC I can see running Cawl attached to a Cohort Cybernetica with the Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land on the Dominus making for an extremely tough to kill unit. You can't add Carl AND a Dominus to the Cohort, it is either the one or the other. I myself think the Dominus is better than Carl. Repairing one wound / turn seems better to me than just the IWND Canticle once per game. And, if you have Carl in another unit, they still can use the Canticle if badly damaged. Regarding Carl in T3 units I think it is not to big of an issue. Yes, there will be way more wounds (most weapons will wound on 3+ or even 2+), but the high T is not what makes Carl standout. It is the 2+ combined with the rerollable FnP and the self repair. And, if needed, just look out sir critical wounds to one of your 10 Vanguard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331406-did-fall-of-cadia-disarm-some-of-our-codex-traps/#findComment-4667963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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