HH Book 44: The Crimson King

[HeritorA]

  On 6/6/2017 at 12:45 PM, NKCougar said:

 

  On 6/6/2017 at 8:17 AM, HeritorA said:

 

  On 6/5/2017 at 5:27 PM, DarkChaplain said:

Just to make sure: You still haven't read it and still do not intend to, right? You said so before but I'd rather ask again.

I read it now to be in line with info here. Dreadful read. Space Wolves shaking hands with 'maleficarum', quest boss fights, human fighting 'sword fight' with Space Marine etc. etc. All the 'best' from McNeil. And I thought Sharrowkyn overdone.... sigh Taliesin

I do forget how Charming forums could be. Thank you for reminding me

 

  Reveal hidden contents

N vs Lucius was probably the most laughable thing in the book. That guy chews up and out Astartes, what on earth was that.

 

Did you ever figure out what happened to that extra Raven Guard ship?

 

Nobody did - it was simply forgotten amongst the lines, lol.

[Izlude]

  On 6/5/2017 at 10:56 PM, Athrawes said:

Great Book, one of McNeils best, and an in depth look at the Thousand Sons during the Heresy.

 

The prose and pacing of the book seems to be blend of McNeils 'A Thousand Sons" and John Frenches Ahriman series , so it forms a nice bridge between both books. And while it has some incredible, and freaky/weird battles (Like a telekinetic bridge in space, for a Chaos Reaver to walk/fight on), the most is 90% an exploration of the psyche and character of how the Sons are copping after Prospero and during the early Heresy. It's always nice to see these books veering away from bolterporn and this one does it well.

 

It also incorporates major revelations for a few 30k era characters, that will be meaningful for people who enjoyed the Ahriman series.

 

At the  End of the day I'd recommend it to anyone who is a Thousand Sons fan, or who is curious about what leads Magnus from the Loyal martyr at the end of Thousand Sons, to a Traitor Primarch Allied with Horus by the siege of Terra.

 

I can't imagine how anyone who has read this would call it filler, as it basically bridges A Thousand sons up to the prelude to the siege of Terra.

I ordered the book along with Dark Imperium. In terms of reading order, I am currently reading the Forgeworld book 7: Inferno for some background info on the 1k. What do you recommend in terms of reading order to better enjoy:

 

1. 1k and BoP: I read these while back as well as most of McNeil's other ones like AE, Outcast etc that have many of the characters that sounds like will be in the book

 

2. Magnus Primarch: I read this already

 

3. Forgeworld book 7-Inferno: In process

 

4. At this point I have the Ahriman trilogy. Should I read that first or Crimson king first? 

[HeritorA]

Izlude

Forgeworld book 7-Inferno, then Crimson King, then Ahriman.

 

Athrawes:

'I can't imagine how anyone who has read this would call it filler, as it basically bridges A Thousand sons up to the prelude to the siege of Terra.'

- we have dexterity, wizard, warrior and necromancer warband on quest. During a trip they got several boss fights and sidequests to bring item 'A' to point 'B'. And yeah it's why Magnus sided with Horus.

Sure - a 'mandatory' read. 

Along the way we had editor and fluff mistakes, time travel, Space Wolves shaking hands with 'maleficarum', human fighting 'sword fight' with Space Marine, missing ships and some incredible 'Like a telekinetic bridge in space, for a Chaos Reaver to walk/fight on' 

Well, no, thank you. 

Abercrobmie done that a thousand time better without additional pathos...
 

Edited June 6, 2017 by Olis
Removed flame bait

[Athrawes]

Dude, calling my tastes childish is too far. Take a step back please, a reevaluate how you interact with people.

[Withershadow]

Oh come on, you're really going to latch on to that as the extent of your retort?  You're going to play the "childish hurt my feelings" card?  It just means you have nothing to say so you cry victim.  News flash, this whole hobby is childish and foolish in the grand scheme of things, so we are all remedial man-children to varying degrees.  For what it's worth, that plot progression does sound pretty much "40K adventure for dummies", which is somewhat par the course for McNeil.  He is very haphazard with his story progression, filled with fluff-breaking events, unlikely Goldbergian coincidences, dangling plot threads, and a generous sprinkling of TV Tropes.  I still find myself enjoying his books while reading them, even if I do end up throwing them across the room when I'm finished.

[godking]

  On 6/6/2017 at 12:45 PM, NKCougar said:

 

  On 6/6/2017 at 8:17 AM, HeritorA said:

 

  On 6/5/2017 at 5:27 PM, DarkChaplain said:

Just to make sure: You still haven't read it and still do not intend to, right? You said so before but I'd rather ask again.

I read it now to be in line with info here. Dreadful read. Space Wolves shaking hands with 'maleficarum', quest boss fights, human fighting 'sword fight' with Space Marine etc. etc. All the 'best' from McNeil. And I thought Sharrowkyn overdone.... sigh Taliesin

I do forget how Charming forums could be. Thank you for reminding me

 

  Reveal hidden contents

N vs Lucius was probably the most laughable thing in the book. That guy chews up and out Astartes, what on earth was that.

 

Did you ever figure out what happened to that extra Raven Guard ship?

 

 

  On 6/6/2017 at 12:45 PM, NKCougar said:

 

  On 6/6/2017 at 8:17 AM, HeritorA said:

 

  On 6/5/2017 at 5:27 PM, DarkChaplain said:

Just to make sure: You still haven't read it and still do not intend to, right? You said so before but I'd rather ask again.

I read it now to be in line with info here. Dreadful read. Space Wolves shaking hands with 'maleficarum', quest boss fights, human fighting 'sword fight' with Space Marine etc. etc. All the 'best' from McNeil. And I thought Sharrowkyn overdone.... sigh Taliesin

I do forget how Charming forums could be. Thank you for reminding me

 

  Reveal hidden contents

N vs Lucius was probably the most laughable thing in the book. That guy chews up and out Astartes, what on earth was that.

 

Did you ever figure out what happened to that extra Raven Guard ship?

 

N did'nt come close to winning against Lucius.

 

I have no issue with a suberb human swordsman lasting seconds against an astartes before being inevitably overpowered

[SpAcEGhOsT095]

Speaking of shards, didn't Khan destroy one when he went to Prospero?

Was that incident mentioned in the book?

[hopkins]

no mention of that, although he did recall his antics in deathfire

a good book, but not a great book. very sprawling and full of metaphors, warp and riddles

 

but, let me get this right

spoilers for the last son of prospero and the beast arises within

proceed with caution

 

  Reveal hidden contents

arvida + magnus shard on terra = janus

lemuel + magnus shard (or was it dio?) = promeus

kyril sinderman =  veritus

[HeritorA]

  On 6/7/2017 at 9:18 AM, hopkins said:

no mention of that, although he did recall his antics in deathfire

a good book, but not a great book. very sprawling and full of metaphors, warp and riddles

 

but, let me get this right

spoilers for the last son of prospero and the beast arises within

proceed with caution

 

  Reveal hidden contents

arvida + magnus shard on terra = janus

lemuel + magnus shard (or was it dio?) = promeus

kyril sinderman =  veritus

For all the daemons of hell I can't figure out where I read about Promeus before.

[NKCougar]

  On 6/7/2017 at 9:22 AM, HeritorA said:

 

  On 6/7/2017 at 9:18 AM, hopkins said:

 

no mention of that, although he did recall his antics in deathfire

a good book, but not a great book. very sprawling and full of metaphors, warp and riddles

 

but, let me get this right

spoilers for the last son of prospero and the beast arises within

proceed with caution

 

  Reveal hidden contents

arvida + magnus shard on terra = janus

lemuel + magnus shard (or was it dio?) = promeus

kyril sinderman = veritus

For all the daemons of hell I can't figure out where I read about Promeus before.

Neither can I, but I'm assuming it is mentioned in either book 11 or 12 of TBA series.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Promeus was one of the four founders of the Inquisition, according the Lexicanum. He and his forces banished Mariana to the Eye of Terror. I'm just starting Shadows of Ullanor, so if I don't see him in this one it is book 12, the Beheading

[hopkins]

the beast arises spoiler was

 

  Reveal hidden contents

kyril sinderman =  veritus

[NKCougar]

  On 6/7/2017 at 2:32 PM, hopkins said:

the beast arises spoiler was

 

  Reveal hidden contents

kyril sinderman = veritus

Didn't see that, somehow.

[hopkins]

  On 6/7/2017 at 3:16 PM, NKCougar said:

 

  On 6/7/2017 at 2:32 PM, hopkins said:

the beast arises spoiler was

 

  Reveal hidden contents

kyril sinderman = veritus

Didn't see that, somehow.

 

 

yet

[HeritorA]

  On 6/7/2017 at 3:18 PM, hopkins said:

 

  On 6/7/2017 at 3:16 PM, NKCougar said:

 

  On 6/7/2017 at 2:32 PM, hopkins said:

the beast arises spoiler was

 

  Reveal hidden contents

kyril sinderman = veritus

Didn't see that, somehow.

 

 

yet

 

That was one good part to see that old chap. As for Promeus - he indeed was mentioned as one of the Inquisition creators. Thanks NKCougar

So in general 'he is' a new part of HH lore.

[Tymell]

  On 6/6/2017 at 12:45 PM, NKCougar said:

 

  On 6/6/2017 at 8:17 AM, HeritorA said:

 

  On 6/5/2017 at 5:27 PM, DarkChaplain said:

Just to make sure: You still haven't read it and still do not intend to, right? You said so before but I'd rather ask again.

I read it now to be in line with info here. Dreadful read. Space Wolves shaking hands with 'maleficarum', quest boss fights, human fighting 'sword fight' with Space Marine etc. etc. All the 'best' from McNeil. And I thought Sharrowkyn overdone.... sigh Taliesin

I do forget how Charming forums could be. Thank you for reminding me

 

  Reveal hidden contents

N vs Lucius was probably the most laughable thing in the book. That guy chews up and out Astartes, what on earth was that.

 

 

I think "not in the book" is what on earth that was I don't know if you two were reading a different version of the book (warped by Tzeentch?), but no, it's nothing like that. I assume you're referring to this bit:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

They [Nagasena and Lucius] traded blows for a handful of seconds - an eternity longer than most would have lasted against Lucius.

 

But no matter their skill or heart, a duel between a mortal and a legionary could end in only one way.

 

Lucius parried a perfectly executed thrust and rolled his wrists to trap Nagasena's blade in the crook of his elbow. He twisted his arm and the gleaming blade snapped cleanly in two.

 

The look of pain on the mortal's face suggested he'd lost a firstborn son.

 

Lucius laughed at Nagasena's horror and stepped in close to haul him from his feet. He held him close as if studying an idiot savant.

 

'You're good,' he said, 'but you're no little raven.'

 

Nagasena struggled in the swordsman's grip, but Lucius was already bored of him. Rather than honour his foe with a clean death, Lucius simply hurled him from the gallery.

 

So, he holds his own for a few seconds before Lucius gets bored, snaps his sword, laughs in his face, then grabs and tosses him away. Hardly "chews up and [censored] out Astartes".

 

Anywho, I just finished it myself. I don't have a strong opinion right now, overall I'd say I liked it, but I do have some issues with the book.

 

Positives:

+I like the bizarre, trippy nature of a lot of the descriptions in the warp or on the Planet of the Sorcerers. I felt those worked well.

 

+I'm glad it didn't spend too much time foreshadowing the Rubric, just a few bits here and there.

 

+Ahriman has definitely progressed as a character, shedding what compassion he had (even if it was ultimately egotistical) and now willing to do whatever he has to to achieve his goals, including getting rid of those in his way. You can see it leading further along naturally.

 

+I like the focus on character and the development of the legion and their primarch. I feel the book uses battles to keep the pacing going rather than just for their own sake.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

+I think my favourite parts were those with Amon and Magnus. I liked the bond between them, those parts had a solid focus and could devote time to them, and the signs of Magnus' mental decay were wonderfully tragic. They really called up fears of senility/dementia, of someone losing who they are and unable to recognise loved ones anymore. Very effective, I feel it could even have done with more of that.

 

Negatives:

-Some parts did feel like they went on a bit too long

  Reveal hidden contents

(e.g. Kamiti Sona)

, but there weren't many of these.

 

-The narrative, once it gets going properly, have three main threads, and I feel two of those had a few too many named characters to juggle, leading to some of them not adding much while others felt like they could have done with more development.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

-No reference to the shard on Prospero, the one the Khan met. I suppose this is an echo rather than a shard, but it still would've been nice to have seen a reference to it, unless I missed it.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

-I agree that Bjarki killing Promus at the end was odd. Of all of them, you'd think the Wolves would understand having to follow your orders and do your duty, even if it involves murder. Not to mention, this info all came from a daemon anyway.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

-By the end of it, quite a few things are left unresolved. Not that I expected everything to be neatly wrapped up with a bow, and there are certainly books with much less satisfying endings. But still, there were a number of threads or characters that didn't really go anywhere or add anything.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

-If I'm reading it right (which I may not be), I'm not sure I like the implication of the flaw in Magnus' book leading to the Rubric going wrong. This seems to imply that the Rubric would have worked if not for this, and to me that significantly lessens the impact of Ahriman's attempt. If it does mean that, then Ahriman was right, and was only foiled by someone else rather than his own hubris and arrogance blinding him, which I personally like a lot better. But again, this point was vague and I might have misinterpreted it.

 

Overall, I think it's a good continuation of the Thousand Sons' story with some solid thematic choices, but a bit more focus in certain parts would help it along.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Tymell

[DarkChaplain]

From the Afterword:

 

  Quote

 

The Crimson King is crowned, and now with all the story threads and hooks I left in my wake, I need to figure out where and how to pay them off.

 

Sounds like the dangling threads were deliberate at least. There are a bunch of things that should come back into play as we get to Terra or other Legions cross paths with the Sons again, now that they're back in the game.

[NKCougar]

  On 6/8/2017 at 10:12 PM, Tymell said:

 

  On 6/6/2017 at 12:45 PM, NKCougar said:

 

 

  On 6/6/2017 at 8:17 AM, HeritorA said:

 

  On 6/5/2017 at 5:27 PM, DarkChaplain said:

Just to make sure: You still haven't read it and still do not intend to, right? You said so before but I'd rather ask again.

I read it now to be in line with info here. Dreadful read. Space Wolves shaking hands with 'maleficarum', quest boss fights, human fighting 'sword fight' with Space Marine etc. etc. All the 'best' from McNeil. And I thought Sharrowkyn overdone.... sigh Taliesin

I do forget how Charming forums could be. Thank you for reminding me

  Reveal hidden contents

N vs Lucius was probably the most laughable thing in the book. That guy chews up and out Astartes, what on earth was that.

I think "not in the book" is what on earth that was I don't know if you two were reading a different version of the book (warped by Tzeentch?), but no, it's nothing like that. I assume you're referring to this bit:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

They [Nagasena and Lucius] traded blows for a handful of seconds - an eternity longer than most would have lasted against Lucius.

 

But no matter their skill or heart, a duel between a mortal and a legionary could end in only one way.

 

Lucius parried a perfectly executed thrust and rolled his wrists to trap Nagasena's blade in the crook of his elbow. He twisted his arm and the gleaming blade snapped cleanly in two.

 

The look of pain on the mortal's face suggested he'd lost a firstborn son.

 

Lucius laughed at Nagasena's horror and stepped in close to haul him from his feet. He held him close as if studying an idiot savant.

 

'You're good,' he said, 'but you're no little raven.'

 

Nagasena struggled in the swordsman's grip, but Lucius was already bored of him. Rather than honour his foe with a clean death, Lucius simply hurled him from the gallery.

 

So, he holds his own for a few seconds before Lucius gets bored, snaps his sword, laughs in his face, then grabs and tosses him away. Hardly "chews up and [censored] out Astartes".

 

Anywho, I just finished it myself. I don't have a strong opinion right now, overall I'd say I liked it, but I do have some issues with the book.

 

Positives:

+I like the bizarre, trippy nature of a lot of the descriptions in the warp or on the Planet of the Sorcerers. I felt those worked well.

 

+I'm glad it didn't spend too much time foreshadowing the Rubric, just a few bits here and there.

 

+Ahriman has definitely progressed as a character, shedding what compassion he had (even if it was ultimately egotistical) and now willing to do whatever he has to to achieve his goals, including getting rid of those in his way. You can see it leading further along naturally.

 

+I like the focus on character and the development of the legion and their primarch. I feel the book uses battles to keep the pacing going rather than just for their own sake.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

+I think my favourite parts were those with Amon and Magnus. I liked the bond between them, those parts had a solid focus and could devote time to them, and the signs of Magnus' mental decay were wonderfully tragic. They really called up fears of senility/dementia, of someone losing who they are and unable to recognise loved ones anymore. Very effective, I feel it could even have done with more of that.

 

Negatives:

-Some parts did feel like they went on a bit too long

  Reveal hidden contents

(e.g. Kamiti Sona)

, but there weren't many of these.

 

-The narrative, once it gets going properly, have three main threads, and I feel two of those had a few too many named characters to juggle, leading to some of them not adding much while others felt like they could have done with more development.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

-No reference to the shard on Prospero, the one the Khan met. I suppose this is an echo rather than a shard, but it still would've been nice to have seen a reference to it, unless I missed it.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

-I agree that Bjarki killing Promus at the end was odd. Of all of them, you'd think the Wolves would understand having to follow your orders and do your duty, even if it involves murder. Not to mention, this info all came from a daemon anyway.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

-By the end of it, quite a few things are left unresolved. Not that I expected everything to be neatly wrapped up with a bow, and there are certainly books with much less satisfying endings. But still, there were a number of threads or characters that didn't really go anywhere or add anything.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

-If I'm reading it right (which I may not be), I'm not sure I like the implication of the flaw in Magnus' book leading to the Rubric going wrong. This seems to imply that the Rubric would have worked if not for this, and to me that significantly lessens the impact of Ahriman's attempt. If it does mean that, then Ahriman was right, and was only foiled by someone else rather than his own hubris and arrogance blinding him, which I personally like a lot better. But again, this point was vague and I might have misinterpreted it.

 

Overall, I think it's a good continuation of the Thousand Sons' story with some solid thematic choices, but a bit more focus in certain parts would help it along.

  Reveal hidden contents

It just seemed strange for Lucius to even bother with Nagasena. From all that I have read, Nagasena is an unaugmented human, albeit one at the peak of physical condition. His ceiling is a few hundred levels below Lucius' floor, and we've seen that even a pulled blow from an Astartes without armor (Vow of Faith; Garro puts what he estimates to be a very light punch into a humans chest and pulps everything) is beyond mortal strength and speed. On a technical level, Nagasena is a highly skilled swordsman - but to an Astarte of Lucius' caliber, it would have to look like a slow-motion replay, and I would have expected a blow that would have cut Nagasena in two not to be parried, but to continue straight through his blade and body.

[bluntblade]

  On 6/6/2017 at 5:37 PM, SpAcEGhOsT095 said:

Speaking of shards, didn't Khan destroy one when he went to Prospero?

Was that incident mentioned in the book?

I figured that was what got Magnus to Sortiarus in the first place, or at least with sufficient power to raise his big tower.

[b1soul]

  On 6/8/2017 at 10:12 PM, Tymell said:

  Reveal hidden contents

-No reference to the shard on Prospero, the one the Khan met. I suppose this is an echo rather than a shard, but it still would've been nice to have seen a reference to it, unless I missed it.

Perhapd no mention as it was destroyed?

 

  Quote

  Reveal hidden contents

-If I'm reading it right (which I may not be), I'm not sure I like the implication of the flaw in Magnus' book leading to the Rubric going wrong. This seems to imply that the Rubric would have worked if not for this, and to me that significantly lessens the impact of Ahriman's attempt. If it does mean that, then Ahriman was right, and was only foiled by someone else rather than his own hubris and arrogance blinding him, which I personally like a lot better. But again, this point was vague and I might have misinterpreted it.

I actually think it makes his failure more pitiful

[HeritorA]

  On 6/9/2017 at 7:12 AM, b1soul said:

 

  On 6/8/2017 at 10:12 PM, Tymell said:

  Reveal hidden contents

-No reference to the shard on Prospero, the one the Khan met. I suppose this is an echo rather than a shard, but it still would've been nice to have seen a reference to it, unless I missed it.

Perhapd no mention as it was destroyed?

 

  Quote

  Reveal hidden contents

-If I'm reading it right (which I may not be), I'm not sure I like the implication of the flaw in Magnus' book leading to the Rubric going wrong. This seems to imply that the Rubric would have worked if not for this, and to me that significantly lessens the impact of Ahriman's attempt. If it does mean that, then Ahriman was right, and was only foiled by someone else rather than his own hubris and arrogance blinding him, which I personally like a lot better. But again, this point was vague and I might have misinterpreted it.

I actually think it makes his failure more pitiful

 

Indeed. 

 

As for the points is why in my humble opinion 'Crimson King' is a  filler and not a very good book, instead of beign a great one with cleverly done and generally moving HH narrative.

Let's compare with amazing 'The Path of Heaven'. Both novels are from the famous  and I dare say talented writers.

 

Path of Heaven same as Crimson King does not give 'MUCH' for the 'moving the story along'.

It's a story of how Khan get to Terra and Horus tried to stop him. General plotwise that's all. BUT- Chris has written amazing scenes, structured the narrative like a God, and has shown the small things (like Morty hate and stubborness; EC corruption; and most of all Scars mistakes and change of belief). The battles were written with 'soul' to them - not the usual bolter-porn. Even the 'death squads' secondary subplot was masterfully finished. And all that feels and reads as having a truly important consequences to the future of the Horus Heresy.

Now let's check Crimson King

  Reveal hidden contents

it's a story in general how Magnus sided with Horus.

But everything else failed. Narrative structure is broken as hell. TS progression to their point in the future is dreadful. Characters and their beliefs are too overcooked, some characters are too 'overpowered' and simply put into the novel cause author doesn't have any thoughts what to do in that particular chapter.

The battles are absolutely unreal in the bad sense - each one goes more an more into the B-movie,comic side.

And even moment with the Book of Magnus and it's future influence into the Rubric are not cleverly done but simply dropped on you for the sake of omg moment which failed.

[Mellow]

I have finished the book finally.

 

Thoughts.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The character at the end who is basically illuminati in the sense of the old fluff in that he has survived an exorcism of sorts and can't be possessed again (at least that's the impression I got) so that was nice.

 

However if I see another Space Wolf shout "Malificarium" again I honestly think I will go spare. It got really annoying!

 

Not sure why Lucius was there.

 

Some scenes dragged a bit.

 

The crazy nature of the Warp made some things difficult.

 

Magnus going crazy got a little bit boring after the 500th time of forgetting everything.

 

Magnus declaring for Horus for no reason other than "I R want to keep the knowledge!"

 

That is all.

[Mantras]

To me, I think this book suffers a little from the "holographic story telling" syndrome a little bit, something I've increasingly noticed in the Horus Hersey. I'll try and explain:

 

Holographic Story telling is term used to describe how the multiple HH authors can write coherent and cogent stories involving the same characters to progress the story line in a way that all ties together and keeps continuity in the what I will term "macro level" ie - the high level of the Horus Heresy. That is, what has been already established in lore, for example we know Sanguinius goes to Signis Prime, or that the space wolves raze Prospero. The "micro" level however, is what actually happens whilst this big event is going on

 

To me, it seems like in the meetings, its decided that book number XX will cover a macro event, but the micro events are more wishy washy.  I'll give an very small example from Crimson King, that is, Lucius's face. We all know in 40k its carved up, and as of Fulgrim / the original trilogy, his face was where it needed to be. Yet in this book, its restored, only to pointlessly go back on how it was like 30 books ago. We get where we need to get to, but via a route that feels totally unnecessary.

 

This book basically feels like "we need to explain why the 1kson's join Horus". There is a casual reference to him helping Vulkans sons and speaking to Lorgar, which could have been much expanded upon, but it feels like an after thought inserted to keep continuity. It would have been much cooler for Ahriman to go and seek those shards as part of the story line.

 

As a result, I think Authors are good at keeping to the macro storylines, but the micro ones seems to start in one book, and then end in that book, which means not alot gets progressed.

 

Does that make any sense? Maybe just me... 

[Tymell]

I think with this book it's good to know going in that it isn't about why Magnus joined Horus. I think it's natural to assume it will be (I thought it would be, certainly), but that particular point barely comes up. It's much more about the repercussions of what happened to the Thousand Sons, and how Magnus and his sons are trying to move on. Siding with Horus sort of follows on from that, but it's never a major point. I expected it would be, but I wouldn't say I'm left let down that it wasn't, since I think what the book -did- do was still decent. It didn't feel (to me) like it was side-stepping this issue in order to force in more action scenes, or trying and failing to address it. It just wasn't the story Graham McNeill was trying to tell.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Tymell

[Galloway]

Was kind of let down by it.  Some neat scenes and but lots of unnecessary/random stuff. But suffered from bringing in so much from French's Ahriman series and then not doing much with them.  Especially someone like Ignis who went from a neat idea from French's series (TS siegemaster) to new lore appearing in Inferno (order of ruin) to...just more or less being there.  More thoughts in spoilers

 

  Reveal hidden contents

His big action sequence being in command of the craft, reveling in numbers and perfection of his attack, until it all immediately goes to hell from Deus Ex Raven Guard ship that destroys his ship instantly and then disappears from story (unless I read something wrong). He then appears controlling a Warhound to save the day, without what seems like much repercussion. No fleshing out of what made him so special, or more on Order of Ruin (or other orders).  Lots of other characters from Ahriman series there too (e.g. Tolbek and Kiu) but most without any real personality or detail- just felt like name dropping.

 

Other thing that confused me was that (again if I understood correctly), whole point of French's series was that Ahriman's reworking of the Rubric actually brought back last shards of Magnus together, sort of foreshadowing this book.  But it seemed like the same story here almost.  Not sure how to reconcile/fit together various shards of Magnus across both stories.

[HeritorA]

  On 6/13/2017 at 6:13 PM, Galloway said:

Was kind of let down by it.  Some neat scenes and but lots of unnecessary/random stuff. But suffered from bringing in so much from French's Ahriman series and then not doing much with them.  Especially someone like Ignis who went from a neat idea from French's series (TS siegemaster) to new lore appearing in Inferno (order of ruin) to...just more or less being there.  More thoughts in spoilers

 

  Reveal hidden contents

His big action sequence being in command of the craft, reveling in numbers and perfection of his attack, until it all immediately goes to hell from Deus Ex Raven Guard ship that destroys his ship instantly and then disappears from story (unless I read something wrong). He then appears controlling a Warhound to save the day, without what seems like much repercussion. No fleshing out of what made him so special, or more on Order of Ruin (or other orders).  Lots of other characters from Ahriman series there too (e.g. Tolbek and Kiu) but most without any real personality or detail- just felt like name dropping.

 

Other thing that confused me was that (again if I understood correctly), whole point of French's series was that Ahriman's reworking of the Rubric actually brought back last shards of Magnus together, sort of foreshadowing this book.  But it seemed like the same story here almost.  Not sure how to reconcile/fit together various shards of Magnus across both stories.

Exactly. Good that people see that bad book for what it is - bad book. BL Authors except for Wraight and French (and partly Bowden - MoM has some strands of fatigue) gone soft and lazy on Horus Heresy. It's not the epic and groundreaking of the first trilogy, not even the reasoning and unbelief of the second, not the mightiness and cinematography of the first 15 books.

From time to time jewels do appear - Like more recent 'Purge', 'Path of Heaven' or 'Praetorian of Dorn', but nowadays only short stories in HH are good (Last Son of Prospero or some Meduson shorts)