HH Book 44: The Crimson King

[Petitioner's City]

more spoilers and thoughts

 

http://graham-mcneill.com/#!/spoilerific-answers/

 

I like how my questions get a written blog post! Thank you to yourself and Graham - please pass on my thanks. It is sad he didn't read Unchanged, it's a magisterial end to that series, but it's fascinating to see how separate authors have taken this long-gestating plot point! 

 

And that's interesting about Khayon not being a character who interested him as much (or maybe he hadn't read Talon); but either way, it's a good set of answers, including reflection on the book writing within his new life. 

[Scribe]

Scribe...

 

SW capable of stealth are described in Prospero Burns and Unremembered Empire

 

Talos is capable of stealth in the NL series

 

Corax, a bloody 10ft primarch is capable of stealth in pretty much all the fluff about him

 

Horus, another massive primarch is capable of stealth in Fear to Tread

 

As a RG Mor Deythan capable of "wraith-slipping", Sharrowkyn is capable of great stealth

 

How is that silly in the context of the 40K setting?

 

Just because others have done it, doesnt make it acceptable. If you want to say its due to psyker gifts or powers, and 'removing themselves' from the brains of those around them, its handwavium, but whatever.

 

Also, the Night Lords examples often have things like '...the power packs proximity made my teeth vibrate...'

 

The concept is poor, I dont really care writes it, or how its justified. I train with some big ass dudes, and you'll never convince me that the dimensions I outlined in power armour, can be 'stealthy' outside of handwavium. :p

[Apothecary Vaddon]

You're complaining about  handwavium in a universe with literal nightmares manifesting in reality and impractically large ships flying through the void without collapsing inwards on themselves, among other things?

[Scribe]

No, I didn't communicate well.

 

If Corax is stealthy because of psyker handwavium it's all good.

 

If he's going it because he's a super ninja and is just that awesome...it's not good.

 

Literally walk outside, and look at a small Mini car for example, or a VW Bug.

 

That's the volume of a space marine in armour.

 

It's simply a bridge to far UNLESS handwavium is involved.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

What you call handwavium, others call future materials. Some marks of power armor can be stealthy (not sure if they're literally the volume of a VW bug, just looking at, say, artwork or SM the game, didn't appear to be anywhere near that large), some aren't. They don't come from the same factory production line, after all.

[Scribe]

Sure, every example of stealth marines are different marks we have not heard of or seen.

 

Got it.

[gogmagog]

I have to say I'm really struggling with this book. I feel it doesn't really add anything to the Horus Heresy at all. And, as an aside at which point do a, the thousand sons work out that Horus changed the orders to annihilation, given that they are super duper sorcerers and all and b, the space realise that they were duped? It really is the elephant in the room. Back to the book, I've read a lot of Grahams books and always really enjoyed them, but this one? It's good to get a feel about the workings of the 1000 sons, but the Dio thing? Sure he is malcadors agent, really no need . Anyway everyone else has it pretty much covered.

[Prot]

I actually was personally disappointed in his answer about Magnus embracing being a Daemon Prince. I always thought of Magnus of being the independent, the individual m the wild card that could not be labeled as a Daemon Prince. More so I thought of Magnus as too talented to ignore yet too dangerous to control (from 'chaos' point of view).

 

I never want to see him lose who he was or what he comes from. To me he transcends Daemonhood, he's beyond that and someone like Abe is just happy to have his goals line up with Magnus' just long enough to vp amuse some real mayhem for the Imperium.

 

I may be kidding myself but that's how I view him. The reluctant bad guy who accidentally shares deep similarities with the son he sought to punish not too long ago.

[Typhoid_Tony]

I actually was personally disappointed in his answer about Magnus embracing being a Daemon Prince. I always thought of Magnus of being the independent, the individual m the wild card that could not be labeled as a Daemon Prince. More so I thought of Magnus as too talented to ignore yet too dangerous to control (from 'chaos' point of view).

 

I never want to see him lose who he was or what he comes from. To me he transcends Daemonhood, he's beyond that and someone like Abe is just happy to have his goals line up with Magnus' just long enough to vp amuse some real mayhem for the Imperium.

 

I may be kidding myself but that's how I view him. The reluctant bad guy who accidentally shares deep similarities with the son he sought to punish not too long ago.

 

Magnus made a bargain with Tzeentch to 'save' his sons from the flesh change and then accepted another deal to accept power to break into the Emperors Palace. Magnus' problem is his arrogance thinking that he always got the best out of any situation but you don't get to make deals with Chaos and escape damnation. Tzeentch doesn't expect its followers to chant its name in absolute obedience; Ahriman has never believed or served Tzeentch deliberately but he's still a slave and one of the Changers greatest champions. 

 

I really like the description of him trying to hold on, it would amuse Tzeentch immensely to have Magnus struggle against his inevitable fate, having hope that he can still hold on to himself but ultimately doomed.

[b1soul]

The Mor Deythan are exceptionally stealthy because of psyker handwavium...they inherited some of Corax's ability. Ergo...there's no problem Edited July 2, 2017 by b1soul

[Mellow]

The Mor Deythan are exceptionally stealthy because of psyker handwavium...they inherited some of Corax's ability. Ergo...there's no problem

I agree. The handwavium comes from their gene father and some built in psychic abilities thus it's not too much of a stretch that a small number of his gene sons may inherit a similar if greatly reduced ability.

[1000 Sons]

 

So ..

Lemuel ....

Are we supposed to get the references to who he becomes? Head of the withchunters?

Book of Magnus ...

Is Hathor Maat's fiddling the cause of the Rubric mess up?

And

The Orrery ... this dude not know there is already a library of all knowledge in the webway?

In order:

Lemuel - now Promeus - is one of the four founders of the Inquisition. Off the top of my head I only know one other, who was revealed in The Beast series.

Apparently, yes. I hate it and think it's a terrible way to change Ahriman's story, but that's what it looks like.

Probably not. The primarchs knew nearly nothing about the Webway, and on top of that, Magnus is shattered at the time and can barely function - he has divine dementia.

A point I would like to bring up in reply for the 2nd question referring to Hathor Maat.

 

when Hathor makes the change in the book of Magnus he realizes is is a small thing, and remembers a quote from Amon about how small errors can have big results in the big picture. The in the epilogue when Magnus is talking he says 'The Orrery was to be my answer....tiny flaws we regard as inconsequential..have far reaching consequences'. The Orrery is said in past tense, this grand project that was to guide humanity and redeem the Thousand Sons seems to have failed, and bringing up the theme again of small errors ties it with Hathor's actions. My theory is the Orrery will have more to it, and the rubric is not in the picture yet.

[Khornflakes]

I really did struggle finishing this book. The first 100 pages were tough going, it got a bit better but if i was about to pitch the kindle out of the window if i read another line about 'raising to X enumeration'. The constant reference was almost as bad as the constant 'wet panther growl' attributed to the Wolves.

 

I loved Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns but this was a hard slog through. The tidbits dropped in in the latter half of the book (mentioned in spoilers in post above) did make things interesting as well as the differing facets of the shards. but the book could have been streamlined by a fair bit. 

[HeritorA]

I really did struggle finishing this book. The first 100 pages were tough going, it got a bit better but if i was about to pitch the kindle out of the window if i read another line about 'raising to X enumeration'. The constant reference was almost as bad as the constant 'wet panther growl' attributed to the Wolves.

 

I loved Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns but this was a hard slog through. The tidbits dropped in in the latter half of the book (mentioned in spoilers in post above) did make things interesting as well as the differing facets of the shards. but the book could have been streamlined by a fair bit. 

Same - but I have an even worse opinion on that book. And yes we all read McNeil afterword. In case he described - it would have been better for him to drop it fully and rewrite it from the start.

[Izlude]

About 2/3 way through. I usually enjoy his stuff, but I read his afterword first (sort of depressing) and so far it does feel strained. It is interesting enough to read (It is no Battle for the Abyss where I just stopped 1/4 via and said "no...no..just terrible) but sort of meh. I am now reading it to just see what happens to Magnus and Ahriman which are characters I enjoy. The book sort of strikes me as a cheezy video game. Don't get me wrong there are some good parts and character dialogue plus seeing the followup for the support 1k sons cast is nice but overall some parts are a choir.

 

It almost seems like he is done with the HH series? Overall Inhave enjoyed most of his stuff

[HeritorA]

About 2/3 way through. I usually enjoy his stuff, but I read his afterword first (sort of depressing) and so far it does feel strained. It is interesting enough to read (It is no Battle for the Abyss where I just stopped 1/4 via and said "no...no..just terrible) but sort of meh. I am now reading it to just see what happens to Magnus and Ahriman which are characters I enjoy. The book sort of strikes me as a cheezy video game. Don't get me wrong there are some good parts and character dialogue plus seeing the followup for the support 1k sons cast is nice but overall some parts are a choir.

 

It almost seems like he is done with the HH series? Overall Inhave enjoyed most of his stuff

 

 

I read it without afterword first, but I have known about his logistics issues while traveling to US. So I was in the mood to forgive a lot.

1) But what he did - he produced a totally pointless, disjointed, raw novel sized story that could have been covered by proffesional authors of his scope in a 70 pages short. Without losing anything important - cause 300 + pages of the book are pointless depiction and repetitive of something.

2) Due to McNeil working for Riot on LOL game it is not unexpected that his novel became a video game 'Titan quest'.

3) Previously then he kill some major characters it had some meaning or simply was a truly shock moment etc. Now he did that simply because.

  death of Promus is stupid beyond compare. SMs who should be an example of practical behavior kill one of the greatest Psykers in the galaxy on the word of a daemon and because Promus killed loyal SM covering tracks for Sigillite. Their own Primarch Russ listened to Sigillite - but these wolves kills his AGENT? Doing the Emperor work?...

Same with Promus then he was looking for a probable future agent of Sigillite on a hospital ship. Killiing thousands of proffesional crew and hundreds of SM who could have been healed and would have been fighting Warmaster forces again? Just for secrecy - golly gee was that

4) golly gee was author thinking?

'It almost seems like he is done with the HH series? Overall Inhave enjoyed most of his stuff'

- feeling the same.

Usually I liked a lot of his stuff - Storm of Iron, Mars serie, Thousand Sons were brilliant. But Crimson King is like a student draft written just to 'fukk off'. 

If McNeil is so submerged into the LOL gaming setting, maybe it's better for him to stop writing for BL?

 

[Izlude]

 

About 2/3 way through. I usually enjoy his stuff, but I read his afterword first (sort of depressing) and so far it does feel strained. It is interesting enough to read (It is no Battle for the Abyss where I just stopped 1/4 via and said "no...no..just terrible) but sort of meh. I am now reading it to just see what happens to Magnus and Ahriman which are characters I enjoy. The book sort of strikes me as a cheezy video game. Don't get me wrong there are some good parts and character dialogue plus seeing the followup for the support 1k sons cast is nice but overall some parts are a choir.

 

It almost seems like he is done with the HH series? Overall Inhave enjoyed most of his stuff

 

 

I read it without afterword first, but I have known about his logistics issues while traveling to US. So I was in the mood to forgive a lot.

1) But what he did - he produced a totally pointless, disjointed, raw novel sized story that could have been covered by proffesional authors of his scope in a 70 pages short. Without losing anything important - cause 300 + pages of the book are pointless depiction and repetitive of something.

2) Due to McNeil working for Riot on LOL game it is not unexpected that his novel became a video game 'Titan quest'.

3) Previously then he kill some major characters it had some meaning or simply was a truly shock moment etc. Now he did that simply because.

  death of Promus is stupid beyond compare. SMs who should be an example of practical behavior kill one of the greatest Psykers in the galaxy on the word of a daemon and because Promus killed loyal SM covering tracks for Sigillite. Their own Primarch Russ listened to Sigillite - but these wolves kills his AGENT? Doing the Emperor work?...

Same with Promus then he was looking for a probable future agent of Sigillite on a hospital ship. Killiing thousands of proffesional crew and hundreds of SM who could have been healed and would have been fighting Warmaster forces again? Just for secrecy - was that

4) was author thinking?

'It almost seems like he is done with the HH series? Overall Inhave enjoyed most of his stuff'

- feeling the same.

Usually I liked a lot of his stuff - Storm of Iron, Mars serie, Thousand Sons were brilliant. But Crimson King is like a student draft written just to 'fukk off'. 

If McNeil is so submerged into the LOL gaming setting, maybe it's better for him to stop writing for BL?

 

I just finished the book and still feel the same, enjoyed some aspects of the book and overall wasn't bad. It definitely pushed the story forward as well. I agree with the ending...felt very random with a key character and really stupid for reasons alot of people mentioned already. It is worth the read despite some issues people have mentioned. I have the Ahriman Omnibus so looking forward to this. It looks like no real new HH offering until Ruinstorm as the recent ones like Tallarn are just rehashes...

[HeritorA]

 

 

About 2/3 way through. I usually enjoy his stuff, but I read his afterword first (sort of depressing) and so far it does feel strained. It is interesting enough to read (It is no Battle for the Abyss where I just stopped 1/4 via and said "no...no..just terrible) but sort of meh. I am now reading it to just see what happens to Magnus and Ahriman which are characters I enjoy. The book sort of strikes me as a cheezy video game. Don't get me wrong there are some good parts and character dialogue plus seeing the followup for the support 1k sons cast is nice but overall some parts are a choir.

 

It almost seems like he is done with the HH series? Overall Inhave enjoyed most of his stuff

 

 

I read it without afterword first, but I have known about his logistics issues while traveling to US. So I was in the mood to forgive a lot.

1) But what he did - he produced a totally pointless, disjointed, raw novel sized story that could have been covered by proffesional authors of his scope in a 70 pages short. Without losing anything important - cause 300 + pages of the book are pointless depiction and repetitive of something.

2) Due to McNeil working for Riot on LOL game it is not unexpected that his novel became a video game 'Titan quest'.

3) Previously then he kill some major characters it had some meaning or simply was a truly shock moment etc. Now he did that simply because.

  death of Promus is stupid beyond compare. SMs who should be an example of practical behavior kill one of the greatest Psykers in the galaxy on the word of a daemon and because Promus killed loyal SM covering tracks for Sigillite. Their own Primarch Russ listened to Sigillite - but these wolves kills his AGENT? Doing the Emperor work?...

Same with Promus then he was looking for a probable future agent of Sigillite on a hospital ship. Killiing thousands of proffesional crew and hundreds of SM who could have been healed and would have been fighting Warmaster forces again? Just for secrecy - was that

4) was author thinking?

'It almost seems like he is done with the HH series? Overall Inhave enjoyed most of his stuff'

- feeling the same.

Usually I liked a lot of his stuff - Storm of Iron, Mars serie, Thousand Sons were brilliant. But Crimson King is like a student draft written just to 'fukk off'. 

If McNeil is so submerged into the LOL gaming setting, maybe it's better for him to stop writing for BL?

 

I just finished the book and still feel the same, enjoyed some aspects of the book and overall wasn't bad. It definitely pushed the story forward as well. I agree with the ending...felt very random with a key character and really stupid for reasons alot of people mentioned already. It is worth the read despite some issues people have mentioned. I have the Ahriman Omnibus so looking forward to this. It looks like no real new HH offering until Ruinstorm as the recent ones like Tallarn are just rehashes...

 

 

With all my opinion on re-releases, I would better read good stuff (which in general Tallarn is) - than this 'masterpiece'...

Quality between his over novels and this is truly stagering into the worse side (TS, Mars books are MILES better)

[Roomsky]

Horus Heresy 44: The Crimson King

 

Ah, Graham Mcneill. The man has pulled a fairly consistent zig-zag in his Heresy writing quality. In recent memory, this has gone from the enjoyable Angel Exterminatus to the nonsensical Vengeful Spirit, and once again bounced back for The Crimson King. Certainly the book is rife with flaws, but I nonetheless really enjoyed going through it, and I’m glad to see Graham back in action, long time coming or no.

 

Quality-wise, like Magnus himself, this book is an imperfect fragment of a perfect Thousand Sons story. While John French’s Ahriman Unchanged (chosen because both stories are focused around shards of Magnus) is a near-dull and totally lifeless tale with a very, very well crafted plot, The Crimson King is a bombastic, engaging yarn that is basically a road-trip, with various things occurring seemingly because Graham thought it would be cool.

 

 

Prose:

This was probably the novel’s biggest strength for me. While still hurt by Graham’s habit simile referring to semi-contemporary things (as if anyone in the 31^st millennium would even care), it was not at all as flowery as some of his other works. This leaves prose that is full of energy, bouncing from point to point without excess fat, but not without flavor. Things are given just enough description before moving on, forming the frank brevity that makes Mcneill very pleasant to read, if perhaps totally unsubtle.

 

New Characters:

Brownie points for Dio Promus, a surprisingly low-key Ultramarine who is neither the greatest of them all, nor constantly spewing “Theoretical! Practical!” at every opportunity. His torment is understandable, standing so proud in defense of a guy who immediately demonstrated he didn’t deserve your trust must be quite the burden to bear. 

 

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/015/559/It_Was_Me__Dio!.jpg

It was me, Dio Promus!

 

Bjarki, while initially I was worried he would undercut everything Abnett and Mcneill himself have built over the course of the heresy, proved to be quite likeable. Much like Russ’ civil demeanor, Bjarki wears a somewhat goofy personality as a veil for the cold lethality beneath. He can be amiable, but he is anything but a very serious threat for our protagonists, and the quiet moments of sympathy he holds for his enemies were all unexpected, but more than appreciated.

 

I have no issue with Bjarki killing Promus, especially when old Dio was being so opaque about his duties. Entirely in keeping with Space Wolf self-righteousness, IMHO.

 

Established Characters:

Things get a little rockier here.

 

Ahriman, in general, I like. The flashback with the time-travel daemon was well enough done, and it gives a very clear idea of why Ahriman is so obsessed with his rubric. That said, I feel the gradient between a well-intentioned legionary to someone who easily sells Maat’s soul to a daemon isn’t all that gradual. When Sanakht brought up his wariness that Ahriman sold a brother legionary’s soul so easily, I was right there with him. The situation seemed an informed desperation; if it was indeed so dire, it wasn’t given a chance to sink in.

The other Thousand Sons are fine. Sanakht is sword-guy, Ignis is logic-guy, Fire guy is fire-guy. Hathor Maat is done well; he had an actual arc born of very understandable fears. Amon, too, was pretty good; repetition or not his scenes with amnesia-Magnus were rather powerful. Perhaps it’s because of personal experience with family having dementia, but I did find it all genuinely sad.

 

It’s great to find out what happened to Lemuel and co., as their omission from even an epilogue in ATS was probably one of its more major missteps. I took no issue with Lemuel’s journey except for the end, which seemed to come literally out of nowhere. “He can’t be possessed anymore” okay why? “I’m Promeus now” okay why? Why is he Promeus? Where did the name come from? He can’t be that changed, he was happy to be flattened under rocks to rejoin his dead wife, he still hates Bjarki and co. for tormenting him. What traits drive him to found the Inquisition?

 

Also, the Kasper Hawser cameo was eye-rolling. “Guess what guys? You remember those Thousand Sons from Prospero Burns? They were actually time-travelling Ahriman and friends! We are literally using time travel as an excuse to shrink the universe. We’ll even have Ahriman comment on how significant it is, for no reason beyond a wink to the audience!"

 

Blech

 

Oh right, and Nagasena. I almost forgot.

 

Look, I don’t dislike Nagasena’s personality. I like his struggle to be the best man he can, without any of the self-righteous assurance most of the astartes characters have. But he’s a goddamn 18^th century samurai in the year 30k. I’m not sure what Graham’s thing with Asians is, but a tea-drinking philosopher painter with a katana called shujiki is comedic in its racism.

 

Plotting:

There’s a lot of good here. Graham goes balls to the wall with warp-related craziness, and it definitely plays to his strengths. Overly poetic descriptions are entirely apt when describing the reality-bending psychic power at work.

 

Some of my biggest issues with Vengeful Spirit were A: power-armored acrobatics (I don’t care if you’re a primarch, you’re wearing terminator armor, stop back-flipping.) and B: tactical ineptitude from allegedly brilliant commanders. The Crimson King remedies this by having no need for backflips thanks to psychic powers, and no need for tactics thanks to a lack of warzones.

 

The whole plot is Graham stepping around inconveniences, really. He wants character development? Here’s a daemon that wants your sorrows. He wants a bunch of cool fight scenes against a primarch? Here’s an angry but less powerful Magnus, go to town. Not that it pulled me out of the story, and many props for that. Looking back though, the plotting was a tad clumsy. I wouldn’t even really want it any other way, I really enjoyed the journey and it was rarely boring. It’s big ideas and big ideas and barely a plot to hold them together.

 

Compare this to the road trip of Deathfire, and it comes out even more favorably. Crimson King ain’t short, but it had more than enough content to fill its pages. It competitor, by contrast, was mostly just spinning its wheels.

 

Overall

 

Welcome back, Graham. He’s still far and away from my favorite writer, but the energy he puts into his work is just infectious. He’s produced several duds, all of them frustrating but never without some value. Thanks to this one, I’m again excited to see his next work, if Riot doesn’t keep him too busy.

We just need to keep him away from battlefields. And World Eaters. And Asians. And Death Guard. And Black Sentinels. I didn’t like The Outcast Dead, okay?

 

 

My arbitrary numerical rating is 6.8/10

[mc warhammer]

 

Horus Heresy 44: The Crimson King

 

Ah, Graham Mcneill. The man has pulled a fairly consistent zig-zag in his Heresy writing quality. In recent memory, this has gone from the enjoyable Angel Exterminatus to the nonsensical Vengeful Spirit, and once again bounced back for The Crimson King. Certainly the book is rife with flaws, but I nonetheless really enjoyed going through it, and I’m glad to see Graham back in action, long time coming or no.

 

Quality-wise, like Magnus himself, this book is an imperfect fragment of a perfect Thousand Sons story. While John French’s Ahriman Unchanged (chosen because both stories are focused around shards of Magnus) is a near-dull and totally lifeless tale with a very, very well crafted plot, The Crimson King is a bombastic, engaging yarn that is basically a road-trip, with various things occurring seemingly because Graham thought it would be cool.

 

 

Prose:

This was probably the novel’s biggest strength for me. While still hurt by Graham’s habit simile referring to semi-contemporary things (as if anyone in the 31^st millennium would even care), it was not at all as flowery as some of his other works. This leaves prose that is full of energy, bouncing from point to point without excess fat, but not without flavor. Things are given just enough description before moving on, forming the frank brevity that makes Mcneill very pleasant to read, if perhaps totally unsubtle.

 

New Characters:

Brownie points for Dio Promus, a surprisingly low-key Ultramarine who is neither the greatest of them all, nor constantly spewing “Theoretical! Practical!” at every opportunity. His torment is understandable, standing so proud in defense of a guy who immediately demonstrated he didn’t deserve your trust must be quite the burden to bear. 

 

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/015/559/It_Was_Me__Dio!.jpg

It was me, Dio Promus!

 

Bjarki, while initially I was worried he would undercut everything Abnett and Mcneill himself have built over the course of the heresy, proved to be quite likeable. Much like Russ’ civil demeanor, Bjarki wears a somewhat goofy personality as a veil for the cold lethality beneath. He can be amiable, but he is anything but a very serious threat for our protagonists, and the quiet moments of sympathy he holds for his enemies were all unexpected, but more than appreciated.

 

I have no issue with Bjarki killing Promus, especially when old Dio was being so opaque about his duties. Entirely in keeping with Space Wolf self-righteousness, IMHO.

 

Established Characters:

Things get a little rockier here.

 

Ahriman, in general, I like. The flashback with the time-travel daemon was well enough done, and it gives a very clear idea of why Ahriman is so obsessed with his rubric. That said, I feel the gradient between a well-intentioned legionary to someone who easily sells Maat’s soul to a daemon isn’t all that gradual. When Sanakht brought up his wariness that Ahriman sold a brother legionary’s soul so easily, I was right there with him. The situation seemed an informed desperation; if it was indeed so dire, it wasn’t given a chance to sink in.

The other Thousand Sons are fine. Sanakht is sword-guy, Ignis is logic-guy, Fire guy is fire-guy. Hathor Maat is done well; he had an actual arc born of very understandable fears. Amon, too, was pretty good; repetition or not his scenes with amnesia-Magnus were rather powerful. Perhaps it’s because of personal experience with family having dementia, but I did find it all genuinely sad.

 

It’s great to find out what happened to Lemuel and co., as their omission from even an epilogue in ATS was probably one of its more major missteps. I took no issue with Lemuel’s journey except for the end, which seemed to come literally out of nowhere. “He can’t be possessed anymore” okay why? “I’m Promeus now” okay why? Why is he Promeus? Where did the name come from? He can’t be that changed, he was happy to be flattened under rocks to rejoin his dead wife, he still hates Bjarki and co. for tormenting him. What traits drive him to found the Inquisition?

 

Also, the Kasper Hawser cameo was eye-rolling. “Guess what guys? You remember those Thousand Sons from Prospero Burns? They were actually time-travelling Ahriman and friends! We are literally using time travel as an excuse to shrink the universe. We’ll even have Ahriman comment on how significant it is, for no reason beyond a wink to the audience!"

 

Blech

 

Oh right, and Nagasena. I almost forgot.

 

Look, I don’t dislike Nagasena’s personality. I like his struggle to be the best man he can, without any of the self-righteous assurance most of the astartes characters have. But he’s a goddamn 18^th century samurai in the year 30k. I’m not sure what Graham’s thing with Asians is, but a tea-drinking philosopher painter with a katana called shujiki is comedic in its racism.

 

Plotting:

There’s a lot of good here. Graham goes balls to the wall with warp-related craziness, and it definitely plays to his strengths. Overly poetic descriptions are entirely apt when describing the reality-bending psychic power at work.

 

Some of my biggest issues with Vengeful Spirit were A: power-armored acrobatics (I don’t care if you’re a primarch, you’re wearing terminator armor, stop back-flipping.) and B: tactical ineptitude from allegedly brilliant commanders. The Crimson King remedies this by having no need for backflips thanks to psychic powers, and no need for tactics thanks to a lack of warzones.

 

The whole plot is Graham stepping around inconveniences, really. He wants character development? Here’s a daemon that wants your sorrows. He wants a bunch of cool fight scenes against a primarch? Here’s an angry but less powerful Magnus, go to town. Not that it pulled me out of the story, and many props for that. Looking back though, the plotting was a tad clumsy. I wouldn’t even really want it any other way, I really enjoyed the journey and it was rarely boring. It’s big ideas and big ideas and barely a plot to hold them together.

 

Compare this to the road trip of Deathfire, and it comes out even more favorably. Crimson King ain’t short, but it had more than enough content to fill its pages. It competitor, by contrast, was mostly just spinning its wheels.

 

Overall

 

Welcome back, Graham. He’s still far and away from my favorite writer, but the energy he puts into his work is just infectious. He’s produced several duds, all of them frustrating but never without some value. Thanks to this one, I’m again excited to see his next work, if Riot doesn’t keep him too busy.

We just need to keep him away from battlefields. And World Eaters. And Asians. And Death Guard. And Black Sentinels. I didn’t like The Outcast Dead, okay?

 

 

My arbitrary numerical rating is 6.8/10

 

 

 

slightly o.t, but so far i'm enjoying VS. maybe because i'm reading it in small bites over a very long period, but it's kept me interested and unbothered up till now (horus has just bounced back from near death and is slapping ultramarines around)

[Roomsky]

 

slightly o.t, but so far i'm enjoying VS. maybe because i'm reading it in small bites over a very long period, but it's kept me interested and unbothered up till now (horus has just bounced back from near death and is slapping ultramarines around)

 

 

It's a book I really want to like, there are moments of brilliance in there I'd happily read again on their own. I won't go into too much detail as you haven;t finished it yet, but Horus does things in that book I can't reconcile with the guy who coldly bombed Istvaan 3, and was then furious about the resources that would be wasted as Angron made planet fall. Those things hammered home how dangerous he was, and that Horus just doesn't seem to inhabit VS. There are other things but hey, you aren't done yet.

 

With Magnus, on the other hand, Graham really only has to live up to himself. He understands the cyclops in a way he doesn't seem to understand Horus, likely in no small part to him mostly residing under Graham's pen.

[HeritorA]

 

Horus Heresy 44: The Crimson King

 

Ah, Graham Mcneill. The man has pulled a fairly consistent zig-zag in his Heresy writing quality. In recent memory, this has gone from the enjoyable Angel Exterminatus to the nonsensical Vengeful Spirit, and once again bounced back for The Crimson King. Certainly the book is rife with flaws, but I nonetheless really enjoyed going through it, and I’m glad to see Graham back in action, long time coming or no.

 

Quality-wise, like Magnus himself, this book is an imperfect fragment of a perfect Thousand Sons story. While John French’s Ahriman Unchanged (chosen because both stories are focused around shards of Magnus) is a near-dull and totally lifeless tale with a very, very well crafted plot, The Crimson King is a bombastic, engaging yarn that is basically a road-trip, with various things occurring seemingly because Graham thought it would be cool.

 

 

Prose:

This was probably the novel’s biggest strength for me. While still hurt by Graham’s habit simile referring to semi-contemporary things (as if anyone in the 31^st millennium would even care), it was not at all as flowery as some of his other works. This leaves prose that is full of energy, bouncing from point to point without excess fat, but not without flavor. Things are given just enough description before moving on, forming the frank brevity that makes Mcneill very pleasant to read, if perhaps totally unsubtle.

 

New Characters:

Brownie points for Dio Promus, a surprisingly low-key Ultramarine who is neither the greatest of them all, nor constantly spewing “Theoretical! Practical!” at every opportunity. His torment is understandable, standing so proud in defense of a guy who immediately demonstrated he didn’t deserve your trust must be quite the burden to bear. 

 

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/015/559/It_Was_Me__Dio!.jpg

It was me, Dio Promus!

 

Bjarki, while initially I was worried he would undercut everything Abnett and Mcneill himself have built over the course of the heresy, proved to be quite likeable. Much like Russ’ civil demeanor, Bjarki wears a somewhat goofy personality as a veil for the cold lethality beneath. He can be amiable, but he is anything but a very serious threat for our protagonists, and the quiet moments of sympathy he holds for his enemies were all unexpected, but more than appreciated.

 

I have no issue with Bjarki killing Promus, especially when old Dio was being so opaque about his duties. Entirely in keeping with Space Wolf self-righteousness, IMHO.

 

Established Characters:

Things get a little rockier here.

 

Ahriman, in general, I like. The flashback with the time-travel daemon was well enough done, and it gives a very clear idea of why Ahriman is so obsessed with his rubric. That said, I feel the gradient between a well-intentioned legionary to someone who easily sells Maat’s soul to a daemon isn’t all that gradual. When Sanakht brought up his wariness that Ahriman sold a brother legionary’s soul so easily, I was right there with him. The situation seemed an informed desperation; if it was indeed so dire, it wasn’t given a chance to sink in.

The other Thousand Sons are fine. Sanakht is sword-guy, Ignis is logic-guy, Fire guy is fire-guy. Hathor Maat is done well; he had an actual arc born of very understandable fears. Amon, too, was pretty good; repetition or not his scenes with amnesia-Magnus were rather powerful. Perhaps it’s because of personal experience with family having dementia, but I did find it all genuinely sad.

 

It’s great to find out what happened to Lemuel and co., as their omission from even an epilogue in ATS was probably one of its more major missteps. I took no issue with Lemuel’s journey except for the end, which seemed to come literally out of nowhere. “He can’t be possessed anymore” okay why? “I’m Promeus now” okay why? Why is he Promeus? Where did the name come from? He can’t be that changed, he was happy to be flattened under rocks to rejoin his dead wife, he still hates Bjarki and co. for tormenting him. What traits drive him to found the Inquisition?

 

Also, the Kasper Hawser cameo was eye-rolling. “Guess what guys? You remember those Thousand Sons from Prospero Burns? They were actually time-travelling Ahriman and friends! We are literally using time travel as an excuse to shrink the universe. We’ll even have Ahriman comment on how significant it is, for no reason beyond a wink to the audience!"

 

Blech

 

Oh right, and Nagasena. I almost forgot.

 

Look, I don’t dislike Nagasena’s personality. I like his struggle to be the best man he can, without any of the self-righteous assurance most of the astartes characters have. But he’s a goddamn 18^th century samurai in the year 30k. I’m not sure what Graham’s thing with Asians is, but a tea-drinking philosopher painter with a katana called shujiki is comedic in its racism.

 

Plotting:

There’s a lot of good here. Graham goes balls to the wall with warp-related craziness, and it definitely plays to his strengths. Overly poetic descriptions are entirely apt when describing the reality-bending psychic power at work.

 

Some of my biggest issues with Vengeful Spirit were A: power-armored acrobatics (I don’t care if you’re a primarch, you’re wearing terminator armor, stop back-flipping.) and B: tactical ineptitude from allegedly brilliant commanders. The Crimson King remedies this by having no need for backflips thanks to psychic powers, and no need for tactics thanks to a lack of warzones.

 

The whole plot is Graham stepping around inconveniences, really. He wants character development? Here’s a daemon that wants your sorrows. He wants a bunch of cool fight scenes against a primarch? Here’s an angry but less powerful Magnus, go to town. Not that it pulled me out of the story, and many props for that. Looking back though, the plotting was a tad clumsy. I wouldn’t even really want it any other way, I really enjoyed the journey and it was rarely boring. It’s big ideas and big ideas and barely a plot to hold them together.

 

Compare this to the road trip of Deathfire, and it comes out even more favorably. Crimson King ain’t short, but it had more than enough content to fill its pages. It competitor, by contrast, was mostly just spinning its wheels.

 

Overall

 

Welcome back, Graham. He’s still far and away from my favorite writer, but the energy he puts into his work is just infectious. He’s produced several duds, all of them frustrating but never without some value. Thanks to this one, I’m again excited to see his next work, if Riot doesn’t keep him too busy.

We just need to keep him away from battlefields. And World Eaters. And Asians. And Death Guard. And Black Sentinels. I didn’t like The Outcast Dead, okay?

 

 

My arbitrary numerical rating is 6.8/10

 

 

Nice thoughts and solid review. Agree with a lot of things.

But I'm more harsh in my opinion - I think Crimson King deserve 4 out of 10. Too much plagiatrism, disconnected plot and overuse of 'quotes' and knowledge for my liking.

Crimson King is more like a game 'Titan quest' - get a quest, kill a boss, get skills, repeat, than a BL novel

[Phoebus]

Roomsky,

 

That was a solid review. Kudos.

 

I thought the premise of the story was good, but the execution itself left me indifferent. There are too many things going on that either don't really matter where The Crimson King is concerned or at least aren't tied in well enough; and there are things that are integral to this story that are barely mentioned and left out for the inevitable sequel.

 

Two things that were irritants (one minor, one major):

 

1. Graham McNeill's shameless use of the scene from Excalibur, where a maddened Lancelot denounces Percival (and the Knights of the Round Table, in general) for the scene of Uthizzar's burial, in Chapter 14.

 

2. At this point in the series, I don't expect anyone on the Imperial side to seriously consider any defense of the ritual Magnus used to warn the Emperor. I do think it's almost bizarre that no one - not even Menkaura - has bothered to even raise the point that it wasn't just a case of Magnus knowing better, or what have you; that there was a credible threat to the Imperium, and that this threat was proven to be true. Imperial policy may very well not change regarding sorcery, and Magnus can stay every bit as guilty, but at this point the Space Wolves' ranting makes them look foolish at best and dishonest at worst given that Russ was obviously duped by Horus.

 

With that in mind, fine, the shard of Magnus that couldn't be recovered was his "good side," but does it also contain his common sense? Does losing his morality make Magnus that much more likely to throw his lot in with the brother who led to him being in this predicament, and who is backed by the very powers Magnus has spent a lifetime trying to get one over?

[hopkins]

it needs repeating, but f you've read TCK and haven't read the last son of prospero, you need to asap

 

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/the-last-son-of-prospero-ebook.html

[HeritorA]

Roomsky,

 

That was a solid review. Kudos.

 

I thought the premise of the story was good, but the execution itself left me indifferent. There are too many things going on that either don't really matter where The Crimson King is concerned or at least aren't tied in well enough; and there are things that are integral to this story that are barely mentioned and left out for the inevitable sequel.

 

Two things that were irritants (one minor, one major):

 

1. Graham McNeill's shameless use of the scene from Excalibur, where a maddened Lancelot denounces Percival (and the Knights of the Round Table, in general) for the scene of Uthizzar's burial, in Chapter 14.

 

2. At this point in the series, I don't expect anyone on the Imperial side to seriously consider any defense of the ritual Magnus used to warn the Emperor. I do think it's almost bizarre that no one - not even Menkaura - has bothered to even raise the point that it wasn't just a case of Magnus knowing better, or what have you; that there was a credible threat to the Imperium, and that this threat was proven to be true. Imperial policy may very well not change regarding sorcery, and Magnus can stay every bit as guilty, but at this point the Space Wolves' ranting makes them look foolish at best and dishonest at worst given that Russ was obviously duped by Horus.

 

With that in mind, fine, the shard of Magnus that couldn't be recovered was his "good side," but does it also contain his common sense? Does losing his morality make Magnus that much more likely to throw his lot in with the brother who led to him being in this predicament, and who is backed by the very powers Magnus has spent a lifetime trying to get one over?

 

Point is 'Crimson King' as a book does not have a soul. Thousand Sons have- CK don't. It was written just to grab the money without any love from the author to his own creation. Instead of 'ideal' we got Frankenstein.

 

As for the

shard on Terra - I think Wraight in his short story explained it all much better than McNeil with his full novel. That shard on Terra which was born into Arvida and reborn on Terra. He is what we expect a long time ago. He is Janus now. He combine in that body all the knowledge and the best humanity traits. And most of all compassion and forgiveness. Without that 'Crimson King' is a simple Chaos tool on a board