HH Book 44: The Crimson King

[Excessus]

 

This book is going to be awesome!!! 

Because?

 

 

Because I've been waiting for the next book about my favorite legion for a really long time now and to finally get the legion into action in the heresy will be awesome, no matter the quality of the story or writing. We've been waiting for a very long time for the legion's decision to join the warmaster. Inferno was released earlier with a crapton of fluff and now we will finally get the story of how they get into the heresy proper (and hopefully the answer to many many other questions).

 

I hope it's a good story, but the release is nevertheless going to be awesome!

 

 

 

 

 

This book is going to be awesome!!! 

Because?

 

 

it's an opinion?

 

it's a question. I'm curious to know why Excessus

thinks it would be awesome. It's a book about 'razed' Legion, emo shattered Primarch and it would be like a bad Shakespearean play for 3 actors: Magnus, Ahriman and someone else.

 

 

Seriously, you need to take a step back and review your posting. You slam me for my opinion while giving your own and believes that to automatically be superior? I could give you an essay about why your comment is wrong, but I don't have that kind of time and I know that your need to get the last word in would trump any constructiveness. Also, I have a dentist appointment in a bit and I prioritize that higher...

[Sandlemad]

 

 

 

This book is going to be awesome!!! 

Because?

 

 

it's an opinion?

 

it's a question. I'm curious to know why Excessus

thinks it would be awesome. It's a book about 'razed' Legion, emo shattered Primarch and it would be like a bad Shakespearean play for 3 actors: Magnus, Ahriman and someone else.

 

 

I have some doubts about some elements of McNeil's TS stuff but c'mon dude. Don't treat your own personal preferences as gospel. Don't treat a storyline as worthless just because it's a 'razed' legion. Can you not see the genuine dramatic possibilities that come from looking at a legion at its lowest ebb, looking at the conflict between a primarch and his sons, looking at everything that will lead into Magnus's relationship with Tzeentch, everything that will turn Ahriman to the rubric? If that's what constitutes filler or pointless storylines... I dunno.

 

Also! Calling a character emo for displaying a fraction more of an emotional range than 'rah, for chaos/the emperor' is a pretty solid reason for anyone to immediately dismiss what you're saying and not miss much.

[HeritorA]

 

 

This book is going to be awesome!!! 

Because?

 

 

Because I've been waiting for the next book about my favorite legion for a really long time now and to finally get the legion into action in the heresy will be awesome, no matter the quality of the story or writing. We've been waiting for a very long time for the legion's decision to join the warmaster. Inferno was released earlier with a crapton of fluff and now we will finally get the story of how they get into the heresy proper (and hopefully the answer to many many other questions).

 

I hope it's a good story, but the release is nevertheless going to be awesome!

 

 

 

 

 

This book is going to be awesome!!! 

Because?

 

 

it's an opinion?

 

it's a question. I'm curious to know why Excessus

thinks it would be awesome. It's a book about 'razed' Legion, emo shattered Primarch and it would be like a bad Shakespearean play for 3 actors: Magnus, Ahriman and someone else.

 

 

Seriously, you need to take a step back and review your posting. You slam me for my opinion while giving your own and believes that to automatically be superior? I could give you an essay about why your comment is wrong, but I don't have that kind of time and I know that your need to get the last word in would trump any constructiveness. Also, I have a dentist appointment in a bit and I prioritize that higher...

 

1) Now I do understand - you are a TS fan (nothing wrong with it).

2) 'Seriously, you need to take a step back and review your posting. You slam me for my opinion while giving your own and believes that to automatically be superior? I could give you an essay about why your comment is wrong, but I don't have that kind of time and I know that your need to get the last word in would trump any constructiveness. Also, I have a dentist appointment in a bit and I prioritize that higher...'

- not even close, that's your own deduction. Nobody 'slams' you lol. 'Superior' lol. Now you simply put your own opinion.  I never feel 'superior' in anything to anyone (We are all humans after all).

3) As for the emo - Magnus became 'emo' from the moment of Imperial Palace breach debacle - nothing wrong with calling it for what it was.

[WarriorFish]

In case it needs saying: opinions are welcome until yours decides to place itself anywhere other than equal to someone else's. Please keep the B&C's rules in mind whenever you're posting so we can avoid warnings such as this. Thanks.

[HeritorA]

Agree - back to discussing the book and rumors about it then

[Taliesin]

Looks like this will be a big book- listed at 496 pages on Amazon. 

That's more than any other recent HH book except for War without End, a massive collection, which was 540.

 

For comparison, Angels of Caliban and MoM are listed at 368, PoD at 400, PoH at 432, all of which roughly corresponds with their hardcover sizes.

[DukeLeto69]

Graham has form for writing longer books, look at Vengeful Spirit...though if you had taken out that extraneous nonesense with the Knights Errant it would have been normal length and a better book IMHO

[HeritorA]

Looks like this will be a big book- listed at 496 pages on Amazon. 

That's more than any other recent HH book except for War without End, a massive collection, which was 540.

 

For comparison, Angels of Caliban and MoM are listed at 368, PoD at 400, PoH at 432, all of which roughly corresponds with their hardcover sizes.

McNeil always wrote 'big' stories. Sometimes it work amazingly like with the 'Thousand Sons' and sometimes it fail miserably like with the 'Angel: Exterminatus' or 'Vengeful spirit'. 

[helterskelter]

@Heritora You forgot to "in my humble opinion" again

[DukeLeto69]

 

Looks like this will be a big book- listed at 496 pages on Amazon. 

That's more than any other recent HH book except for War without End, a massive collection, which was 540.

 

For comparison, Angels of Caliban and MoM are listed at 368, PoD at 400, PoH at 432, all of which roughly corresponds with their hardcover sizes.

 

McNeil always wrote 'big' stories. Sometimes it work amazingly like with the 'Thousand Sons' and sometimes it fail miserably like with the 'Angel: Exterminatus' or 'Vengeful spirit'.

IMHO (lol) Angel Exterminatus is indeed a fail. As I said above, I personally liked Vengeful Spirit but could have done without the Knights Errant story which just felt totally shoehorned in and unnecessary.

[R_F_D]

I liked the Knights Errant from the The Devine Adoratrice but haven't read Vengeful Spirit as I gave up trying to read the HH in numbered order.  Did Vengeful Spirit come out at the same time as the release of the Errant figures?

 

I'm looking forward to this nonetheless. I think the tragedy of the descent of the Sons is poignant; that they still don't see it coming for all their skills and knowledge.

 

b1soul, on 02 Mar 2017 - 12:16 AM, said:

A bit sad to see old-timers like McNeill and Abnett almost stop working for BL...even though I only ever liked one McNeill work, ATS, I likes it very much and it was the first HH novel after the opening trilogy
 

@b1soul Abnett tweeted yesterday that he was up in Nottingham.... draw from that what you will.  He did say to me at the start of the year that he hoped to be invited to a HH meeting but the trip could equally have been Warmaster related or to drop off an Age of Sigmar novel for some literal fan trolling....

Edited March 17, 2017 by R_F_D

[hopkins]

How could you not like Perturabo smashing Fulgrim's face into a clockwork Warhound?

[Izlude]

I actually liked AE, it was the first I really read about Perturabo and I liked Fulgrim in this one. Some of the things I liked:

-The contrast between the IV and the III legion was well done

-I know many hate sharrowkyn, but I actually like him, its nice to have a loyalist badass...also taking down the peacock Lucius was very satisfying for me (never liked him much)

-The IW trident are interesting characters and enjoyed them. I know they have their own books in 40k but haven't really read them

-It was sort of "facepalm" as a reader seeing Perturabo getting conned by Fulgrim over and over...aren't you like the most paranoid of all the Primarchs? But I do appreciate the contrast with Perturabo's dour nature with Fulgrim's peacock flamboyant nature. 

 

In general I really enjoyed this book, not a ADB/Abnett book but solid. I enjoy McNeil's work and he is pretty consistent. I am looking forward to reading Magnus (waiting for the Amazon release) and The Crimson King. 

 

PS: Yeah loved the face to the mini warhound..."if you listen really closely you can hear...BAM!"

[Roomsky]

I am a little worried about Crimson King based on Graham's last few novels (though I haven't read Master of Prospero yet so maybe he's good again). I really liked Angel Exterminatus for all the development it gave Perturabo, and Fulgrim was a great villain, but I found all the Sharrowkyn and pals stuff frustrating and largely nonsensical.

 

Vengeful Spirit is probably my least favorite Heresy non-anthology (that I've read). Horus was an idiot, Mortarion was very OOC, the Knights Errant story was ham-fisted and not half as epic as it wanted to be, the manner of Horus' empowerment was wholly unnecessary, and gosh darnit Abaddon's gravelly voice explained away by being caught in an explosion was even more unecessary. The only plotline I could tolerate was the House Divine stuff, and I really wish it had gotten its own book instead of being mired in all the crap surrounding it.

 

That said, much as I liked Fulgrim, A Thousand Sons was still an oddly huge leap in quality for Graham's writing, so maybe tackling Magnus again will prove fruitful. A Thousand Sons also had my favorite portrayal of Russ, so here's hoping.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Roomsky

[Mellow]

I'm missing out. Waiting for the iBook release feels like an eternity.

[veterannoob]

He pens some behemoths but man, they're just so good. I hope this one is massive after the years of build-up

[b1soul]

I know many hate sharrowkyn, but I actually like him, its nice to have a loyalist badass...also taking down the peacock Lucius was very satisfying for me (never liked him much)

Here, here

 

I still hold that ppl who think Sharrowkyn is Mary Sue but Sevatar is not...are being a bit hypocritical

 

IMO, neither are

[DarkChaplain]

I'll still say that Sharrowkyn suffers from being introduced in Angel Exterminatus before the Mor Deythan were fully introduced by ForgeWorld and Gav in The Shadowmasters and the Corax novellas. Sharrowkyn stands out as much as he does because he's a rare type of Raven Guard elite, and the only Raven among the Sysypheum band. He is a magnificent blademaster, sure, but so are a lot of other characters, and Lucius losing had a lot to do with his own hubris. That Nykona was basically the only skeptic among the crew when it came to Meduson isn't surprising either, in the context of the book.

 

Sevatar, while he is very cool to read about, looks more... overkill. I mean, he does a lot of crazy stuff. It is still justifiable within the setting, but AD-B always seemed to play more with the rule of cool than many other authors under BL. And unlike Sharrowkyn, Sevatar steals the show pretty consistently, whereas Sharrowkyn shares the attention with a big cast of characters across Legions.

Damn I'd like to read another Sevatar story more than one about Sharrowkyn, but I wouldn't mind if he got toned down a little from his super badass representation, though with his powers there's big potential for him to let loose entirely and become even more bombastic.

[mc warhammer]

i kinda hate the term mary sue, partly because it's so unfair but also because it's potentially limiting for any mildly paranoid author (which would be 90%).

 

i mean sometimes a character just is kick arse. we tend to center stories around the most important characters and from time to time, they also happen to be the most impressive.  we can't only have stories full of frodo baggins' and lyra belacqua's. or to be fairer, those stories also contain aragorns and lord asriels.

 

for me personally, a character doesn't feel like a mary sue if there's more to them than their amazing skillset. sevatar feels so well fleshed out to me that his ability to do amazing stuff is almost an afterthought. he exists as a fascinating personality beyond his abilities.

 

it might just be that i've read less sharrowkyn so i haven't seen as much of his character depth, but my experience with him has left me with little or no impression of who he is other than an amazing warrior.

[bluntblade]

Sevatar has quirks and vulnerabilities (I made a similar argument about Rey a while ago) that stop him from just being "this guy who's the bestest".

 

As for the Crimson King, I'm intrigued, but I'm not that great a fan of McNeill's work so kind of apprehensive. For me his writing lacks the flair of AD-B, Wraight and Abnett.

[mc warhammer]

Sevatar has quirks and vulnerabilities (I made a similar argument about Rey a while ago) that stop him from just being "this guy who's the bestest".

 

As for the Crimson King, I'm intrigued, but I'm not that great a fan of McNeill's work so kind of apprehensive. For me his writing lacks the flair of AD-B, Wraight and Abnett.

 

while i can't say i'm a big fan, i will say that his stuff is an easy read. and i don't mean that it lacks complexity, just that it all tends to flow quite easily. it's not a chore to read on a technical level.

[MrDarth151]

Sevatar has quirks and vulnerabilities (I made a similar argument about Rey a while ago) that stop him from just being "this guy who's the bestest".

 

As for the Crimson King, I'm intrigued, but I'm not that great a fan of McNeill's work so kind of apprehensive. For me his writing lacks the flair of AD-B, Wraight and Abnett.

 

Dunno. McNeill is a good writer from technical standpoint, and he is good at writing stuff rooted in mystery and mysticism, which makes him suited to writing characters like Crimson King. I still think his depiction of the Emperor is the best in Horus Heresy, even if he is a bit hit-and-miss when it comes to other stuff.

[mc warhammer]

 

Sevatar has quirks and vulnerabilities (I made a similar argument about Rey a while ago) that stop him from just being "this guy who's the bestest".

 

As for the Crimson King, I'm intrigued, but I'm not that great a fan of McNeill's work so kind of apprehensive. For me his writing lacks the flair of AD-B, Wraight and Abnett.

 

Dunno. McNeill is a good writer from technical standpoint, and he is good at writing stuff rooted in mystery and mysticism, which makes him suited to writing characters like Crimson King. I still think his depiction of the Emperor is the best in Horus Heresy, even if he is a bit hit-and-miss when it comes to other stuff.

 

 

 

which bits re the emp? last church is the only thing i can remember from mcneil. other than maybe a chess game in OD?

Edited March 20, 2017 by mc warhammer

[bluntblade]

The Wolf of Ash and Fire? Which is a good short, albeit marred by McNeil's continual portrayal of Abaddon as a one-dimensional grump (nonetheless with the wherewithal to presumably hold the Justaerin back from following the Custodes in their lemming dive after the Emperor and Horus and battle on despite his injuries and both his Primarch and monarch vanishing - I'd like an Abaddon POV to go over that a little).

[MrDarth151]

 

 

Sevatar has quirks and vulnerabilities (I made a similar argument about Rey a while ago) that stop him from just being "this guy who's the bestest".

 

As for the Crimson King, I'm intrigued, but I'm not that great a fan of McNeill's work so kind of apprehensive. For me his writing lacks the flair of AD-B, Wraight and Abnett.

 

Dunno. McNeill is a good writer from technical standpoint, and he is good at writing stuff rooted in mystery and mysticism, which makes him suited to writing characters like Crimson King. I still think his depiction of the Emperor is the best in Horus Heresy, even if he is a bit hit-and-miss when it comes to other stuff.

 

 

 

which bits re the emp? last church is the only thing i can remember from mcneil. other than maybe a chess game in OD?

 

 

Last Church is one I did not like especially much, but that's because of my education. I kinda find it a poor example of discourse.

 

No, I mean primarily the Wolf of Ash and Fire and Outcast Dead. I also like the way he worded Emps judgement at Nikea and his short scenes in Mechanicum,

 

Of course, it might be because his version is the one I found most genuinely charismatic.