HH Book 44: The Crimson King

[HeritorA]

Sharrowkyn is simply a Mor Deythan. It comes with the territory.

Ha LOL Haha

 

Even for Mor Deythan he is more Primarch like than an elite Legion specialist moritat cadre :)

[Robbienw]

This was on sale at Warhammer Fest, I got one on Saturday.

 

I've not had time to start reading it yet, and won't until next week, but I will post spoilers when I do :D

 

It's a big book, 485 pages including the afterword.

[Dagoth Ur]

 

 

Sharrowkyn is simply a Mor Deythan. It comes with the territory.

Ha LOL Haha

 

Even for Mor Deythan he is more Primarch like than an elite Legion specialist moritat cadre :)

One of the very few things me and HeritorA will probably ever agree on ;) Sharrowkyn is indeed an extremely over the top character. If I were to give the title of Mary Sue (Well Gary Stu in this case), I'd hand it to him. He is just so massively overcompetent, versatile and plot shielded. Seriously, there is not a single prominent character flaw to him.

[HeritorA]

This was on sale at Warhammer Fest, I got one on Saturday.

 

I've not had time to start reading it yet, and won't until next week, but I will post spoilers when I do

 

It's a big book, 485 pages including the afterword.

Spoilers please  - we all love spoilers. Anyway - glad for you, nice of you to pick one at the Fest.

Want to know if it has the 'right' to be, then instead of Beta-Garmon and Solar system we have a memory lane walk again.

 

And as The Observer

said: 'I'd hand it to him. He is just so massively overcompetent, versatile and plot shielded. Seriously, there is not a single prominent character flaw to him.'

From the moment

Alpharius in the 'Seventh Serpent'  told Nykona that Magnus will need him for something

Sharrowkyn got plot armor - auto save on all wounds and story crossroads

[rendingon1+]

Hm,I was always wondering: why nobody calls Sigusmund Mary Sue? "never lost a duel" "best swordsman in the legions" etc stuff, surely applies to the definition?

[HeritorA]

Hm,I was always wondering: why nobody calls Sigusmund Mary Sue? "never lost a duel" "best swordsman in the legions" etc stuff, surely applies to the definition?

Well, a lot of us did - a lot of times in a lot of threads. LOL. But in comparison to Sharrowkyn who appeared in 2 novels, 1 novella and 2 shorts he is a simple rank marine lol.

Robbienw

We need spoilers!!! We can't live without spoilers

[Taliesin]

Uhm, I don't want any spoilers so not sure where the "we" comes from.

 

General impressions and book review: yes. Spoilers: No.

 

And obviously they can still be posted under spoiler tag.

 

Why do you need the spoilers anyway? You're always among one of the first to read to read the books anyway, so you'd be at it in 2 weeks time.

A much better reading experience if you don't have the plot spoiled just before you're embarking on your own read.

[DarkChaplain]

 

Hm,I was always wondering: why nobody calls Sigusmund Mary Sue? "never lost a duel" "best swordsman in the legions" etc stuff, surely applies to the definition?

Well, a lot of us did - a lot of times in a lot of threads. LOL. But in comparison to Sharrowkyn who appeared in 2 novels, 1 novella and 2 shorts he is a simple rank marine lol.

 

Not sure I agree at all. I don't think Sigismund is a Mary Sue to begin with, due to him having plenty of inner turmoil and screwing up his favor with Dorn; he's powerful but flawed in many ways, and more so after the Heresy.

 

Sharrowkyn still doesn't strike me as overpowered. He is the one Raven Guard dude used to hit and run tactics among the Sysypheum crew. Incidentally, I am re-reading The Seventh Serpent right now as part of Shattered Legions, and like I remember, he is sensible if anything.

 

He urges caution, and yes he is correct in doing so, but even with different results it is the logical course, whereas the Iron Hands go for a lot more passionate and emotional reponses in the novella, quite ironic considering their mantras and reputation. Sharrowkyn is a Mor Deythan guy, so yes he has an elite skillset. He's more comparable to Justaerin or Sigismund's Templars than a line Raven Guard.

He is a skilled fighter and caught Lucius off guard - which makes sense considering Lucius has a history of it (see: Loken, Azkaellon) and his hubris always led to a fall of some sort.

 

Just because some Primarch has a role for them yet (which, I might add, isn't a rare scenario either. Just look at Argel Tal's predicted future, Erebus still being alive, Kor Phaeron, Aeonid Thiel and co) and has him spared by his brother that doesn't make them somehow overpowered or super duper special. They are simply a convenient tool in a greater plan - of which Magnus has probably the best knowledge right now.

 

Besides that, Sharrowkyn has issues integrating into the Sysypheum's crew. He is seen as a little-trusted outsider (as is even directly stated in TSS) and makes little effort to change his status. His words are put down and swept aside while he is being used for his skills. He has trouble communicating. While yes, he is correct in his advice, he is wrong in how he makes himself heard and felt by his new brothers.

[rendingon1+]

Agree. Sharrowkyn is not mary sue in my opinion either. He's just good at what is he doing and he's (important) picking his fights. You didn't see him with a breacher shield when IH were storming AL ship in Seventh Serpent and he was not in a IH defensive line when 3rd legion boarded Sysypheum. He's just hiding in shadows, picking targets with his rifle, sabotaging and if he's going hth it's always 1:1 in a confusion of battle, not in a middle of the clashing lines. Sharrowkyn is just exactly what he is - Mor Deythan assassin.

 

About Magnus and his plans: lol. That's why Alpha Legion is successful: words cost nothing but confusion and doubt they cause... I don't think Magnus has any plans for Nykona, but I can totally see how Alpharius tries to sow doubt and suspicion amongst Sysypheum crew as a parting gift.

Edited May 29, 2017 by rendingon1+

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Besides, what have the RG have to boast about in the Heresy so far?

 

Letting them have Sharrowkyn seems fair after being the target of Gav's pen.

[HeritorA]

Uhm, I don't want any spoilers so not sure where the "we" comes from.

 

General impressions and book review: yes. Spoilers: No.

 

And obviously they can still be posted under spoiler tag.

 

Why do you need the spoilers anyway? You're always among one of the first to read to read the books anyway, so you'd be at it in 2 weeks time.

A much better reading experience if you don't have the plot spoiled just before you're embarking on your own read.

Easy - I do not want to read it. Cause it's another filler 'in the meantime in the Eye of Terror'. Instead of Beta-Garmon and let storm Solar system.

 

DC - problem is not with his integration, but with his skills, which could have been 'believable; if written a different way. Instead McNeil overwatched 'Ninja scroll and Naruto', or probably he was already playing LOL to know the game before leaving.

rendingon1+

'I don't think Magnus has any plans for Nykona, but I can totally see how Alpharius tries to sow doubt and suspicion amongst Sysypheum crew as a parting gift.' Yeap he does and very specific ones.

 

Besides, what have the RG have to boast about in the Heresy so far?

 

Letting them have Sharrowkyn seems fair after being the target of Gav's pen.

In general yes. In specifics - they shouldn't boast anything. Raven Guard and Horus Heresy is a road of suffering and hell, nothing to boast where. And it is ok. We all knew they will suffer.

[DarkChaplain]

I still cannot see what skills are so offensively outlandish and over the top. Mind pointing out specific examples without neglecting to mention context?

 

By the way, Nykona Sharrowkyn also is barely competent as a smith. It makes for a decent bonding scene with Atesh.

[HeritorA]

I still cannot see what skills are so offensively outlandish and over the top. Mind pointing out specific examples without neglecting to mention context?

 

By the way, Nykona Sharrowkyn also is barely competent as a smith. It makes for a decent bonding scene with Atesh.

Using shadows and stealth as a second skin. At short story he mentioned himself that he is 'more' skillful then the high cadre of Mor Deythan.

[Mellow]

Please don't encourage HeritorA. He doesn't like it when people don't agree with him and he believes he's always right.

 

All the time.

 

 

 

 

 

Always.

 

 

... and you're wrong

[Scribe]

Sharrowkyn was brutally done, the worst example of 'ninja marine' that could be done, and a simply mind boggling application of a trope.

 

So no, not everyone likes the guy. :p

[veterannoob]

I still cannot see what skills are so offensively outlandish and over the top. Mind pointing out specific examples without neglecting to mention context?

 

By the way, Nykona Sharrowkyn also is barely competent as a smith. It makes for a decent bonding scene with Atesh.

You guys talking about the power they have, only way I can compare it from experience is to the discipline of Obfuscate from Vampire: The Masquerade I played for 15 years?

[DarkChaplain]

Done with my re-read of The Seventh Serpent and I realized something else re: Magnus wanting Sharrowkyn alive.

Does ANYBODY remember Lucius: The Eternal Blade(master)? Because good ol' Lucius went to the Planet of Sorcerers after the events of Angel Exterminatus and meets up with the Thousand Sons buddies.

I'd put forward the theory that he is indeed very salty about being defeated/faux-killed by Nykona and wanting a rematch. Wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility that Magnus sees that happening in one version of the future and wants to pave the way for it. Just saying, it doesn't have to be anything extraordinary that Big Red has in store for the Shadowbro. Might just be doing Former Prettyboy Lucius a favor.

[HeritorA]

Please don't encourage HeritorA. He doesn't like it when people don't agree with him and he believes he's always right.

 

All the time.

 

 

 

 

 

Always.

 

 

... and you're wrong

Exactly the opposite. You don't see your own hypocrisy   So far what I have seen is DC, you who are always 'right'

[Mellow]

See what I mean. He can't just leave things. He has to be right and always make the last comment. Not just in this thread either dear readers.

 

He does it everywhere! :O

[HeritorA]

See what I mean. He can't just leave things. He has to be right and always make the last comment. Not just in this thread either dear readers.

 

He does it everywhere!

I'm not always right, if I'm wrong I see my mistakes and will try to correct them.

As for the 'always make last comment' - well, maybe you are right in that particular case

[Robbienw]

Hi guys, haven't been able to read it yet, but here is the Dramatis Personae for you:

 

Primarchs -

Magnus

Lorgar

Thousand Sons -

Ahzek Ahriman
Amon
Hathor Maat
Sobek
Menkaura
Sanakht
Tolbek
Ignis

Space Wolves -

Bodvar Bjarki, rune priest of tra

Svafnir Rackwulf, woe-maker of tra

Olgyr Widdowsyn, shield bearer

Gierlothnir Helblind, shield bearer

Harr Balegyr, Beserker



Imperial Personae

Malcador

Yasu Nagesena

Dio Promus, Knight Errant, former Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines

Antaka Cyvaan, former Raven Guard Librarian

Umwelt Uexkull, cybertheurgist, taghmata omnissia

Credence Araxe, Mechanicum Magos, master of Ursarax

Zygman Videns, Mechanicum Magos, statistical prognosticator

Vindicatix, Vorax battle automata

Cesaria Laventure, warden of kamiti sona

Lady Veleda, Cartomancer

Jambik Sosrulo, Migou and son of Lady Veleda

Lemuel Gaumon, former remembrancer

Camille Shivani, former remembrancer
 

Chaiya Parvati, Survivor of Prospero

[DarkChaplain]

So wait

 

McNeill is going with Tra instead of the 13th? Missed opportunity there, in my eyes.

 

Cool to see Yasu Nagasena back, but I'm surprised that Malcador double-dipped on Ultramarine librarians. Garro only went to pick up Tylos Rubio, after all, and Guilliman at least still has Prayto. For Malcador to have taken hold of a former, seemingly pre-Nikaea chief librarian is "lucky"...

 

Fun fact: "Umwelt" is German and means "environment". So we have a mechanicum bro who is named after something the Mechanicum doesn't care much for.

 

Curious to see what our Remembrancer friends are up to now. Also good to see some of French's characters from the Ahriman trilogy listed. Surprised there's no listing for Lucius as he's supposedly there, as per McNeill's short audio drama/story from a few years ago... And Sanakht at least is listed.

Edited May 31, 2017 by DarkChaplain

[HeritorA]

Hi guys, haven't been able to read it yet, but here is the Dramatis Personae for you:

 

Primarchs -

 

Magnus

 

Lorgar

 

Thousand Sons -

 

Ahzek Ahriman

Amon

Hathor Maat

Sobek

Menkaura

Sanakht

Tolbek

Ignis

 

Space Wolves -

 

Bodvar Bjarki, rune priest of tra

 

Svafnir Rackwulf, woe-maker of tra

 

Olgyr Widdowsyn, shield bearer

 

Gierlothnir Helblind, shield bearer

 

Harr Balegyr, Beserker

 

 

 

Imperial Personae

 

Malcador

 

Yasu Nagesena

 

Dio Promus, Knight Errant, former Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines

 

Antaka Cyvaan, former Raven Guard Librarian

 

Umwelt Uexkull, cybertheurgist, taghmata omnissia

 

Credence Araxe, Mechanicum Magos, master of Ursarax

 

Zygman Videns, Mechanicum Magos, statistical prognosticator

 

Vindicatix, Vorax battle automata

 

Cesaria Laventure, warden of kamiti sona

 

Lady Veleda, Cartomancer

 

Jambik Sosrulo, Migou and son of Lady Veleda

 

Lemuel Gaumon, former remembrancer

 

Camille Shivani, former remembrancer

 

Chaiya Parvati, Survivor of Prospero

 

Thanks.

But that dramatis personae list create a lot of questions from the start.

1) Dio Promus, Knight Errant, former Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines - what? Chief Librarian? Which was never mentioned anywhere before?

Yasu Nagesena - isn't he Nagasena? Again editors does not know their own lore? ... Laurie 'what the :cuss' - third HH book in a raw with obvious spelling mistakes.

3) Tra - what happened to the 13th company that went into the webportals and warp to hunt the TS?

4) Something tells me McNeil lost his connection to the reality of HH lore, which began with Outcast dead and further cemented in AE

 

Already predict how I will stomp that one

Edited June 1, 2017 by HeritorA

[Sandlemad]

So wait

 

McNeill is going with Tra instead of the 13th? Missed opportunity there, in my eyes.

 

Cool to see Yasu Nagasena back, but I'm surprised that Malcador double-dipped on Ultramarine librarians. Garro only went to pick up Tylos Rubio, after all, and Guilliman at least still has Prayto. For Malcador to have taken hold of a former, seemingly pre-Nikaea chief librarian is "lucky"...

 

Fun fact: "Umwelt" is German and means "environment". So we have a mechanicum bro who is named after something the Mechanicum doesn't care much for.

 

Curious to see what our Remembrancer friends are up to now. Also good to see some of French's characters from the Ahriman trilogy listed. Surprised there's no listing for Lucius as he's supposedly there, as per McNeill's short audio drama/story from a few years ago... And Sanakht at least is listed.

 

Maybe Tra appear in realspace and not wherever in the warp the TS wound up? It was the Eye of Terror, right, at Sortiarius? I never thought about it in particular but it means that apart from Kor Phaeron and his handful of close disciples, they were the first 'traitor' legion to shack up in eyespace.

 

I was never keen on Nasagena - he seemed like a man out of time - but it's good to see Gaumon and the remembrancers back, they were a real hanging plotline from A Thousand Sons.

 

Yeah Lucius's absence is weird, particularly as I think he appears in the extract on the BL website. Wooo Ignis! What are the odds on him being just as much of a weirdo at this stage?

[Robbienw]

Heritor A, its Nagasena, just a typo my mistake lol

 

I think Promus had a very brief mention in one of the books dealing with imperium secundus, not 100% sure though.