WS confirmed as next after Angelus? Or mis-info?

[b1soul]

I doubt we'll see them in Angelus, but it doesn't necessarily follow that we'll get them in the book after either.

They definitely won't be introduced via Angelus. That has been confirmed.

 

BTW... (silly question) who's Neil and what's his job at FW? I'm a bit surprised he seems to be unaware of the WS actions mentioned in Path of Heaven .

 

Nah the Old (2009/10 ish) Tempus Fugitive campaign weekends at WHW a few years before Betrayal (Probably the catalyst for FWs project). Plenty of full 3000+pt armies of White Scars trundling around. The Battle for Terra Weekend for example had a whole White Scar Task force of about a dozen players (Though one was mobile IG). Though i dont doubt Chris' work has helped, because its absolutely superb!And heres a terrible photo of the joint project myself and 2 buddies built for the event at the Ultima Gate :D http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/Noserenda/Tempus%20Fugitives%20May%202010%20Battle%20for%20Earth/P1010032.jpg

Glorious...

[Hfran Morkai]

I do think a serious part of it is you think WS and think bikers, jet bikers and Land Speeders. Now we all know they're not the only options but the archetypal WS way of war.

 

Then look at the models, £50 for 3 bikers. It's horrifically prohibitive price wise for a lot of people. If bikers were cheaper (fortunately I'm not a big Jetbike fan) or GW did a plastic outrider bike kit and let FW deal with upgrades (various Armour mks, alternative weapons etc) I'd certainly buy a fair few.

[Fire Golem]

 

I doubt we'll see them in Angelus, but it doesn't necessarily follow that we'll get them in the book after either.

They definitely won't be introduced via Angelus. That has been confirmed.

BTW... (silly question) who's Neil and what's his job at FW? I'm a bit surprised he seems to be unaware of the WS actions mentioned in Path of Heaven .

I assume they meant they have nothing to work on with the White Scars in the Terra storyline, rather than the whole heresy. Because we don't actually know anything about the Scars on Terra other than that they were there.

[Laughingman]

Maybe in book 10 they will showcase the white scars campaign against the traitors in the intervening years between the events of  Scars and Path of Heaven. I look forward to the Sagyar Mazan concept being fleshed out.

 

 

[Marshal Loss]

In all likelihood, they will follow past form and put them in book 10, receiving a battle or two out of ~3-5 in a fashion similar to Extermination, Conquest or Retribution. I doubt they will do another book without them.

 

My prediction though would be that they get ~3-4 units and maybe more than 2 characters, as they'll essentially disappear from the story before Terra much like the Thousand Sons, who also received masses of stuff as a result. So with a bit of luck, they'll receive a great deal of resin

[b1soul]

I assume they meant they have nothing to work on with the White Scars in the Terra storyline, rather than the whole heresy. Because we don't actually know anything about the Scars on Terra other than that they were there.

We know the WS fought the DG at the Lion's Gate Spaceport on Terra...that's about it

 

Maybe in book 10 they will showcase the white scars campaign against the traitors in the intervening years between the events of  Scars and Path of Heaven. I look forward to the Sagyar Mazan concept being fleshed out.

Yeah, Sagyar Mazan are basically another Blackshield-like faction

 

Forge World could cover them a la Retribution

 

I think they might consider covering Alaxxes in book 9 or 10...and they could throw in WS as an addition

[Laughingman]

Book 9 or 10 alternatively could be about the  Shadow Crusade, Since after the get done sculpting  Sanguinius, the Lion and the Khan (it is my understanding it is just one guying doing this?)  they will need another method to get us to spend copious amounts of money, enter... The primarchs ascended series..

[dansupvi]

yeah thats a good point, as they were originally intending to make shadow crusade book 6. perhaps they'll delay the white scars further to do shadow crusade, which would be an awesome book. argel tal!

[Urriak Urruk]

You know, the best way to make White Scars more popular than they are is to give them rules putting them in the top-tier of Space Marine legions.

 

I mean, I wouldn't call Imperial Fists a very popular army in 40k, but in 30k they get more traction. They also have pretty good rules for a "vanilla" army.

 

So if they dropped a WS book that updates them to being a pretty beast army rules-wise, any WS specific units would sell much better.

[b1soul]

You know, the best way to make White Scars more popular than they are is to give them rules putting them in the top-tier of Space Marine legions.

 

I mean, I wouldn't call Imperial Fists a very popular army in 40k, but in 30k they get more traction. They also have pretty good rules for a "vanilla" army.

 

So if they dropped a WS book that updates them to being a pretty beast army rules-wise, any WS specific units would sell much better.

Which legions are top tier now in your view?

[bluntblade]

Sweet as that would be, I can already picture "Khan Sue" reactions

[Laughingman]

Maybe, or they could give them some very situational rites of a war, war-gear, and units  to work with.

[b1soul]

Sweet as that would be, I can already picture "Khan Sue" reactions

I think some people are already a bit annoyed that the WS hold up the SoH, EC, DG, and IW before dashing for Terra (at the cost of plenty of WS casualties of course)

[Runefyre]

 

Sweet as that would be, I can already picture "Khan Sue" reactions

I think some people are already a bit annoyed that the WS hold up the SoH, EC, DG, and IW before dashing for Terra (at the cost of plenty of WS casualties of course)

 

It is a bit ridiculous imo, though not completely so. The idea that just one legion was keeping Horus's entire warmachine from attacking terra (and still had enough fighting force to have an effect in the siege itself btw) is getting borderline mary sue.

 

My DG buddy wasn't terribly impressed by PoH either.

 

You know, the best way to make White Scars more popular than they are is to give them rules putting them in the top-tier of Space Marine legions.

 

I mean, I wouldn't call Imperial Fists a very popular army in 40k, but in 30k they get more traction. They also have pretty good rules for a "vanilla" army.

 

So if they dropped a WS book that updates them to being a pretty beast army rules-wise, any WS specific units would sell much better.

White Scars legion rules are already very strong, and they don't even have legion-specific units and characters.

[Ironwithout]

White scars are currently a top tier legion which is impressive considering they don't have legion units.

 

I think the Scars holding up the Warmaster makes sense. It's not that they did much to the warmasters forces but because they scattered to try and survive if the warmaster had assaulted Terra he would have a fair sized legion assaulting his supply lines and possible a counter attack at a critical moment.

It's not that he couldn't assault terra but rather chose not to so he wouldnt have to worry about a legion on his arse. The warmaster was apparently getting desperate towards the end of the siege due to the other legions getting close to Terra which is the same as having the Scars so close to harass him during the siege.

 

Just my 2 cents anyway. I don't think the Scars did much when they tried to get to Terra. but rather the warmaster was worried about what they could have done if they was behind the warmasters forces during the siege of Terra.

[Runefyre]

White scars are currently a top tier legion which is impressive considering they don't have legion units.

 

7ed. Warhammer favours bikes (and jetbikes) heavily, hence when a legion like WS's get awesome bonuses to that unit type you're going to have a strong legion. Personally I think they should have afew more restrictions as I think all their boosts are fluffy and cool, just that the current edition makes those units more cost effective atm.

 

 

I think the Scars holding up the Warmaster makes sense. It's not that they did much to the warmasters forces but because they scattered to try and survive if the warmaster had assaulted Terra he would have a fair sized legion assaulting his supply lines and possible a counter attack at a critical moment.

It's not that he couldn't assault terra but rather chose not to so he wouldnt have to worry about a legion on his arse. The warmaster was apparently getting desperate towards the end of the siege due to the other legions getting close to Terra which is the same as having the Scars so close to harass him during the siege.

 

Just my 2 cents anyway. I don't think the Scars did much when they tried to get to Terra. but rather the warmaster was worried about what they could have done if they was behind the warmasters forces during the siege of Terra.

 

Those are fair points, and perhaps I'm just too cynical thanks to the less awesome path my favourite legion has been given (losing. all. the. dang. time.).

[Ironwithout]

I agree with this completely. We may aswell have no restrictions as the ones we do have make nearly no difference at all.

 

 

I can't say you're wrong as when I was reading the books I thought the same thing but it wasn't until I analysed it a bit more for when I was planning my own army did I come to this conclusion. It does seem to come across on a lot of occasions they're single handedly holding back the warmaster. I think their exploits have been emphasised too much but I also think they needed it considering they have always been a bit of an afterthought legion and the Khan has and always will be in my opinion and side character at best.

 

As for your legion that's fair considering some of them do really seem to have got the short end of the stick so far. Hopefully that changes a little.

[Runefyre]

I agree with this completely. We may aswell have no restrictions as the ones we do have make nearly no difference at all.

 

 

I can't say you're wrong as when I was reading the books I thought the same thing but it wasn't until I analysed it a bit more for when I was planning my own army did I come to this conclusion. It does seem to come across on a lot of occasions they're single handedly holding back the warmaster. I think their exploits have been emphasised too much but I also think they needed it considering they have always been a bit of an afterthought legion and the Khan has and always will be in my opinion and side character at best.

 

As for your legion that's fair considering some of them do really seem to have got the short end of the stick so far. Hopefully that changes a little.

The Wolves' treatment in the HH series won't change unless Wolf Cull is expanded into a futile campaign a-la White Scars, but it won't ever have anything but a bad ending for the Wolves regardless. It's just a matter of not making them look like buffoons while doing so.

 

Regarding the Khan, I think they certainly needed the additional spotlight, but why to the point they make other legions look inept? I would have preferred a campaign similar to Thramas, with two legions facing off instead of an "I'll take you all on" montage.

 

I hope they get to the Scars after Angelus, it seems a crime to me to update already existing legions before getting to the last one.

[lokkorex]

I don't remember path of heaven stating the white scars upheld four entire legions, rather just elements of four legions.

 

I mean if horus was around with his entire legion, i'd have a hard time believing the white scars being around after seven years of fighting.

 

I think the white scars being around that long has to be because they split up and made guerilla/hit & run warfare on horus forces, constantly being a thorn in his side, that he eventually tired off, therefore sending ol'morty and pruneface after 'em.

 

I'd be a damned crime if the book after angelus doesn't contain white scars.

[b1soul]

It is a bit ridiculous imo, though not completely so. The idea that just one legion was keeping Horus's entire warmachine from attacking terra (and still had enough fighting force to have an effect in the siege itself btw) is getting borderline mary sue.

 

My DG buddy wasn't terribly impressed by PoH either.

Well, the SoH, EC, and DG all suffered high fatalities at Isstvan III

 

Of the remainder, I think only some were engaging the WS

 

Furthermore, the WS were only delaying the Traitors at high cost to themselves...the WS were doomed without an exit strategy. They were guaranteed to be annihilated absent the Kalium Gate.

 

I would agree that no 1 legion should be able to match 4 legions without qualification

[Laughingman]

I was under the impression that the White Scars did significant damage to War Masters logistical and industrial assets in the years between the events of Scars and Path of Heaven.  I image the White Scars went after in particular hard to replace Assets like industrial facilities, mining outpost, isolated promethium refineries, etc.  

[Athrawes]

 

 

Those are fair points, and perhaps I'm just too cynical thanks to the less awesome path my favourite legion has been given (losing. all. the. dang. time.).

 

 

 

I don't get this. 

 

The space wolves have one of THE most crushing victories of the the Heresy, they destroy a Legion and wipe out that Legion's homeworld, suffering only 25% casualties. At the same time, their Primarch also gets literally break another Primarchs back.

 

And yet you complain about the wolves never winning.

 

What victories do the Thousand Sons get in the Heresy? Honestly, the space wolves losing every other heresy battle badly, makes it a bit more fair. So, why should the wolves get another storied victory before the Thousand sons get one?

[Laughingman]

 

 

 

Those are fair points, and perhaps I'm just too cynical thanks to the less awesome path my favourite legion has been given (losing. all. the. dang. time.).

 

 

 

I don't get this. 

 

The space wolves have one of THE most crushing victories of the the Heresy, they destroy a Legion and wipe out that Legion's homeworld, suffering only 25% casualties. At the same time, their Primarch also gets literally break another Primarchs back.

 

And yet you complain about the wolves never winning.

 

What victories do the Thousand Sons get in the Heresy? Honestly, the space wolves losing every other heresy battle badly, makes it a bit more fair. So, why should the wolves get another storied victory before the Thousand sons get one?

 

 

If I recall, in the book Corax, the Thousand Sons got to help curb stomp the Space Wolves at Yarant. The battle I suspect ended meaningful conventional  Space Wolves participation in the rest of the Horus Hersey.

[b1soul]

I was under the impression that the White Scars did significant damage to War Masters logistical and industrial assets in the years between the events of Scars and Path of Heaven.  I image the White Scars went after in particular hard to replace Assets like industrial facilities, mining outpost, isolated promethium refineries, etc.

 

Pretty much this.

 

They made themselves a disruptive pain in the butt, like Shadrak Meduson's band...except much larger and led by a Primarch specialising at high-mobility warfare

 

WS forces were not defeating Traitor forces four times greater in size. That would be silly.

 

The WS were likely striking targets with lighter defenses, forcing the Traitors to guess where they would hit.

 

The WS probably avoided the most heavily defended, most vital tier 1 assets. Would more sense for them to strike at a large number of tier 2 targets so to speak.

[bluntblade]

Mortarion was no fool at Dark Glass. He had run the Scars down, deployed his Legion in a way that would hand them a glorious victory for an acceptable cost and we can see that the Khan needed talking out of fighting him. The two clearly take their "soul-bound" vendetta seriously. As for competence, the Scars are running out of space, only surviving because of Jaghatai's brilliance, and the Emperor's Children see through the first layer of their feints and hurt them badly. Wraight makes it very clear that the initial run of great victories doesn't last because a Space Marine Legion is a Space Marine Legion, and therefore gifted wth commanders quite capable of adapting, and they have done so.

 

Mortarion was caught out by something that had been hidden from almost the entire Galaxy and the Khan fleeing when almost every Primarch who committed to a feud did so without restraint. See Kurze and the Lion, Ferrus and Fulgrim. That he castigated himself for failing says more about how he's always looking for some sign of betrayal or a danger that he might be seen by Horus as a liability.