Dark Angels accept Roboute Gulliman?

[HsojVvad]

But there is something fishy. how can you bend the knee when Roboute's right hand man is Cypher. Or maybe that's the plan after all. Keep your friends close and your enemies closers.

 

That is my guess. Then again the Dark Angels only "conceded" to his way just to avoid another civil war. Maybe this is them "conceding" again to avoid disruption. We are after all Legion still. Unless Robute knows this, it is still same old same old. Dark Angels showing the illusion of chapters.

[Confused Word Bearer]

No, Marneus Calgar is my Spiritual Liege. :P

[EPK]

Has everyone seen the new box set with the Champions of the fallen.

 

Just took a look. The Fallen Champions in that are all built out from a combination of other sets. Mk. IV marine kit (originally from Betrayal of Calth) , DA Vets now aka Fallen, and the DA upgrade pack.

 

Funny they just straight up retouched the DA Vet photos to look black.

 

On another note there is now a "Fallen Angels" category under armies yet they are also tainting our category by mixing in that Vets turned Fallen set.

[Othniel's Blade]

I'm wondering if this is legit: the download specifically states 40k.

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Legion-Tactical-Squad-in-Mark-IV-Armour

[EPK]

I'm wondering if this is legit: the download specifically states 40k.

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Legion-Tactical-Squad-in-Mark-IV-Armour

 

Wishful thinking.

 

From the writeup:

 

"Rules can be found in the .pdf available to download from this page, and in The Horus Heresy - Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List, available from forgeworld.co.uk."

 

They probably should have made a note like they did on the other Mk. III set saying the models can be used as standard tactical marines in 40K.

[Othniel's Blade]

I'm not saying I would want it, but the *already once-corrected* page specifically states the following (GW laziness notwithstanding):

 

Rule Downloads

For all the rules you need to field this miniature in games of Warhammer 40,000, download the free PDF at the link below.

 

[EPK]

I'm not saying I wish for it, but the *already once-corrected* page specifically states: 

Rule Downloads

For all the rules you need to field this miniature in games of Warhammer 40,000, download the free PDF at the link below.

 

Oh, I know. It's obviously an oversight. It doesn't even have all the rules you need for 40K technically - for starters, which codex can field this unit per that PDF?

[Othniel's Blade]

 

 

Oh, I know. It's obviously an oversight. It doesn't even have all the rules you need for 40K technically - for starters, which codex can field this unit per that PDF?

 

 

Wish I could find the legio vexilla rules in my 'dex.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Hi guys. Without spoiling too much about Part 3, most of the Space Marines have sent delegations to verify Guilliman's return, even the loyalist DA and Space Wolves (in the latter's case, to break the barrels of mjord and celebrate much to my amusement, as to my knowledge, the wolves aren't particularly close pr fond of UM. then again, a loyalist primarch awakening should be cause for celebration) So for the DA terminator to be in the picture, it isn't so out of place. 

 

At that point of the story, let's just say Cypher and co haven't come in yet. They come in later in the story.

[Irbis]

Is it terminator though? He is clearly shorter than Calgar in TDA, maybe it's Azrael in standard PA?

[jlmb_123]

I think it's just a Dark Angel. I also think that the DA don't know about the Fallen working with Guilliman as they're sneaky sneaks.

 

I can't see why the DA wouldn't follow Guilliman - as Kasper-Hawser says, a Primarch is a Primarch, and I don't think, generally, any of the Space Marines in 40k know anything realistic about the Primarchs apart from having the idea that they were awesome. In the 40k universe, nearly every single Chapter has probably immediately sworn allegiance to him because, as with everything in the Imperium, he's been worshipped for thousands of years and they'll continue to do so despite his protestations.

[jaxom]

If you don't plan on picking up the book, but would like to know how it goes regarding the Dark Angels and the Fallen....

 

 

Guilliman comes back and many Progenitor Chapters show up in meaningful numbers (it's kind of vague, but it seems to imply company to chapter strength) and swear allegiance to the Primarch directly while the First Founding Chapters send envoys (up to squad strength) to confirm what's been happening and report back to their respective chapter's leadership. This includes the Dark Angels and that's all the book says about the Dark Angels. Guilliman and the force he is leading to Terra (Terran Crusade: Ultramarines veterans and 2nd company, almost all the Progenitor forces that showed up, Voldor and his Grey Knight Brotherhood, and the Cadian Triumvirate) get trapped in the Maelstrom and captured by Kairos Fateweaver and Red Corsairs. Harlequins go and get Cypher and they stage a break out in exchange for Guilliman letting Cypher come to Terra and see the Emperor together; they had arrived via Webway and could straight to Terra. Cypher and his Fallen do nothing of note in the climactic battle on Luna between the Terran Crusade and Magnus the Red and his forces. Magnus had been following the Terran Crusade in hopes of slipping onto Terra while the defenses were down for Guilliman to enter so Guilliman exited the Webway on Luna instead. Guilliman breaks his word to Cypher and doesn't let him see the Emperor because he doesn't trust him and because the sword Cypher carries induces "dread" in Guilliman. The Custodes round up Cypher and his Fallen, put them into an inescapable prison and Cypher disappears a few hours later. The end. The Dark Angels are long out of the picture by the time Cypher arrives and may end up hearing about some Dark Angel-like marines arriving at the Imperial Palace via rumors and whispers in the future, but nothing indicates anyone thought they were anything but Dark Angels. Even Guilliman just calls Cypher a son of the Lion (the Primarch doesn't recognize Cypher otherwise) and nothing is made of the fact he's wearing Legion colors as compared to the Chapter colors the Dark Angels envoys were wearing. Guilliman ends up as Lord Commander of the Imperium so I'd imagine all Astartes chapters are going to listen to his orders to some degree or another, but the Dark Angels didn't swear to his personal service like the Ultramarines and Progenitors did.

 

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

If you don't plan on picking up the book, but would like to know how it goes regarding the Dark Angels and the Fallen....

 

 

Guilliman comes back and many Progenitor Chapters show up in meaningful numbers (it's kind of vague, but it seems to imply company to chapter strength) and swear allegiance to the Primarch directly while the First Founding Chapters send envoys (up to squad strength) to confirm what's been happening and report back to their respective chapter's leadership. This includes the Dark Angels and that's all the book says about the Dark Angels. Guilliman and the force he is leading to Terra (Terran Crusade: Ultramarines veterans and 2nd company, almost all the Progenitor forces that showed up, Voldor and his Grey Knight Brotherhood, and the Cadian Triumvirate) get trapped in the Maelstrom and captured by Kairos Fateweaver and Red Corsairs. Harlequins go and get Cypher and they stage a break out in exchange for Guilliman letting Cypher come to Terra and see the Emperor together; they had arrived via Webway and could straight to Terra. Cypher and his Fallen do nothing of note in the climactic battle on Luna between the Terran Crusade and Magnus the Red and his forces. Magnus had been following the Terran Crusade in hopes of slipping onto Terra while the defenses were down for Guilliman to enter so Guilliman exited the Webway on Luna instead. Guilliman breaks his word to Cypher and doesn't let him see the Emperor because he doesn't trust him and because the sword Cypher carries induces "dread" in Guilliman. The Custodes round up Cypher and his Fallen, put them into an inescapable prison and Cypher disappears a few hours later. The end. The Dark Angels are long out of the picture by the time Cypher arrives and may end up hearing about some Dark Angel-like marines arriving at the Imperial Palace via rumors and whispers in the future, but nothing indicates anyone thought they were anything but Dark Angels. Even Guilliman just calls Cypher a son of the Lion (the Primarch doesn't recognize Cypher otherwise) and nothing is made of the fact he's wearing Legion colors as compared to the Chapter colors the Dark Angels envoys were wearing. Guilliman ends up as Lord Commander of the Imperium so I'd imagine all Astartes chapters are going to listen to his orders to some degree or another, but the Dark Angels didn't swear to his personal service like the Ultramarines and Progenitors did.

 

 

 

 

yea we sent a squad over to check things out, but they were not listed on his crsuade

 

 

[Kasper_Hawser]

If you don't plan on picking up the book, but would like to know how it goes regarding the Dark Angels and the Fallen....

 

 

Guilliman comes back and many Progenitor Chapters show up in meaningful numbers (it's kind of vague, but it seems to imply company to chapter strength) and swear allegiance to the Primarch directly while the First Founding Chapters send envoys (up to squad strength) to confirm what's been happening and report back to their respective chapter's leadership. This includes the Dark Angels and that's all the book says about the Dark Angels. Guilliman and the force he is leading to Terra (Terran Crusade: Ultramarines veterans and 2nd company, almost all the Progenitor forces that showed up, Voldor and his Grey Knight Brotherhood, and the Cadian Triumvirate) get trapped in the Maelstrom and captured by Kairos Fateweaver and Red Corsairs. Harlequins go and get Cypher and they stage a break out in exchange for Guilliman letting Cypher come to Terra and see the Emperor together; they had arrived via Webway and could straight to Terra. Cypher and his Fallen do nothing of note in the climactic battle on Luna between the Terran Crusade and Magnus the Red and his forces. Magnus had been following the Terran Crusade in hopes of slipping onto Terra while the defenses were down for Guilliman to enter so Guilliman exited the Webway on Luna instead. Guilliman breaks his word to Cypher and doesn't let him see the Emperor because he doesn't trust him and because the sword Cypher carries induces "dread" in Guilliman. The Custodes round up Cypher and his Fallen, put them into an inescapable prison and Cypher disappears a few hours later. The end. The Dark Angels are long out of the picture by the time Cypher arrives and may end up hearing about some Dark Angel-like marines arriving at the Imperial Palace via rumors and whispers in the future, but nothing indicates anyone thought they were anything but Dark Angels. Even Guilliman just calls Cypher a son of the Lion (the Primarch doesn't recognize Cypher otherwise) and nothing is made of the fact he's wearing Legion colors as compared to the Chapter colors the Dark Angels envoys were wearing. Guilliman ends up as Lord Commander of the Imperium so I'd imagine all Astartes chapters are going to listen to his orders to some degree or another, but the Dark Angels didn't swear to his personal service like the Ultramarines and Progenitors did.

 

 

Which proves that Guilliman is still a troll 10K years. LOL, sorry for the smurf jibe, couldn't help myself. Honestly, depending on the author, the only trolling I saw him do in 30K was during the Monarchia business with Lorgar. and even that is mitigated in Know no Fear where he clearly isn't happy about that trolling and only did it because he was ordered to.

 

I did find Guilliman a well rounded character, both in 30K and 40K. He honestly believes his way is the best, but is not so arrogant when proven wrong. I haven't read whole thing yet, only that he just left for Terra, but so far what i read i like. there's not much grimdarkness about his character, he is wary of the Eldar but that's normal for 40K standard, and will honour the alliance for as long as he can before the inevitable trolling by the Ynaari. He never stomped on Calgar's authority, and carefully entreated with everyone.

 

So yeah, I don't think the dark Angels acknowledging Guilliman's authority will be a problem.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

For what we know from HH fluff, only Anglin didn't have a knee-bending effect on Marines. Every other Primarch carried an aura of awe and respect.

I fully believe that after 10K years, seeing one of the Emperor's sons will have a tremendous impact and even the most stubborn Chapter Master would bend knee to Guilliman, no matter which gene-seed flows in their veins. Of course that doesn't mean said stubborn Chapter Master could keep a side agenda. ;)

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

For what we know from HH fluff, only Anglin didn't have a knee-bending effect on Marines. Every other Primarch carried an aura of awe and respect.

I fully believe that after 10K years, seeing one of the Emperor's sons will have a tremendous impact and even the most stubborn Chapter Master would bend knee to Guilliman, no matter which gene-seed flows in their veins. Of course that doesn't mean said stubborn Chapter Master could keep a side agenda.

With him on Holy Terra, would Azael act like Karamazov from If the Emperor had a Text-To-Speach Device. If not would it be a small group of elite inner circle folks? Do we have something that would make it a hidden hunt still?

[Kasper_Hawser]

For what we know from HH fluff, only Anglin didn't have a knee-bending effect on Marines. Every other Primarch carried an aura of awe and respect.

I fully believe that after 10K years, seeing one of the Emperor's sons will have a tremendous impact and even the most stubborn Chapter Master would bend knee to Guilliman, no matter which gene-seed flows in their veins. Of course that doesn't mean said stubborn Chapter Master could keep a side agenda.

Much as I hate Angron, he did command the same aura of respect and servitude common to most Primarchs. This is evidenced mainly by his own sons, who despite their father's hatred of the Emperor, was still willing to forsake their oaths of loyalty to the Imperium solely for their mad primarch, even willingly butchering their own brains in the process. Heck, even those who didn't butcher their brains aka the remaining librarians in the legion, still followed their primarch into heresy to their last drop of blood.

Remember that every Traitor legion had their loyalist and were able to throw off the "Primarch awe" with great difficulty. so conversely, its not to illogical for Space Marines to acknowledge other Primarchs as higher authority figures. Even Space wolves, the most trigger/sword happy idiots when it comes to picking fights (and yes, I'm writing this fully aware that I'm a space wolf player), are willing to follow orders from other primarchs provided they keep faith with them.

My favorite part of Unremembered Empire was when a pack of Space Wolves willingly walked into a battle with Curze in a small room, to defend Guilliman's adoptive mother. Amazingly enough, I think most of them survived before being incapacitated by Curze, who was repulsed by the fact that Guilliman actually HAD a mother in his life. Jerk.

[Brother Tyler]

In my mind, it comes down to loyalty. The Hunt for the Fallen, after all, is a quest to either prove that the Dark Angels and Unforgiven are, and always have been, loyal to the Emperor and the Imperium; or to remove any evidence that there were elements within the Legion that were ever disloyal. Yes, it's a complex combination of both reasons. Ultimately, the Hunt's purpose is to prove their loyalty.

 

Not bending knee to Roboute Guilliman, the one entity who has the pedigree to take up the mantle of rulership of the Imperium without contradiction by any other, would present the appearance of disloyalty. Add in the possible fallout if Roboute Guilliman were ever to learn of the Fallen and an unhappy Roboute Guilliman (i.e., one to whom the Unforgiven don't acknowledge as having authority over them) means the Unforgiven would suffer. Greatly.

 

Even if the Dark Angels don't like bending knee to Roboute Guilliman (and I'm not saying that they don't, just to be clear), bending knee to the primarch is the only reasonable course of action.

 

I suspect that Guilliman was chosen as the returning primarch, possibly as the only returning loyalist primarch, precisely because his character has the potential to change the complexion of the setting. It's no longer 2 minutes to midnight. It's now the morning after an epic party, the Imperium has a raging hangover, and Guilliman is the cure. There's still going to be war a'plenty, but the Imperium now has the potential to pull through all of this. No other loyalist primarch could have brought that kind of shift if they'd returned, with the possible exception of Rogal Dorn (who, in my opinion is, and should forever remain, dead). The other loyalist primarchs, awesome as they may be, would have changed the setting in different, and much less dramatic, ways. If Lion El'Jonson returns (next most likely, in my mind), the Unforgiven bending knee to Roboute Guilliman sets the Unforgiven up for appropriately hoped for closure with regard to the Lion and the Fallen. Inciting the wrath of Guilliman, conversely, would have led to Very Bad Things. There would probably be some level of friction between Roboute Guilliman and Lion El'Jonson, but much less than there would be if the Unforgiven had not bent knee to the primarch of the IIId.

 

So I have no problem with the Dark Angels bending knee to Roboute Guilliman.

[JeffJedi]

If anything it's the Space Wolves that would have a problem doing that. Angron was thought killed briefly in the opening triology of Horus Heresy and people literally cried out "Its the end times!"

 

As for loyalty, I wonder what Guilliman thinks of the current renegade chapters that come from his own Geneseed.

 

Is Cypher loose on Terra right now or was he wished away?

[Lord_Ikka]

Escaped from an impenetrable prison that has never been escaped from. Standard Cypher stuff.

 

I was fairly disappointed in Cypher's role in the Rise of the Primarch. Seemed fairly minimal for all that he is part of the Primarch's Triumvirate.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Yeah, almost like Cypher and the fallen were shoehorned into the book just to sell of the DA Veteran boxes.

[MoK]

They probably were, but the fact they made a new Cypher model tells me he still has a big part to play.

[Kasper_Hawser]

They probably were, but the fact they made a new Cypher model tells me he still has a big part to play.

 

I sure hope so. But for now, he feels like unnecessary Bleach and Naruto characters introduced just to keep the series going.

[MoK]

Here's a question. Did the Fallen follow Cypher to Terra? If so I take it they were locked up with Cypher? So when Cypher was 'spirited away' by whoever does it (Watchers), what's happened to the Fallen? Are they still being held by the Custodes? And if the Fallen are being held, are the DAs going to find out and what is their reaction going to be?

[dtse]

Cypher escaped....and he's on Terra....watch this space, his story is not done