Homebrew WIP Combat Doctrine Help

[Badass_Spaz]

Hello everyone, I'm new to Bolter and Chainsword but figured I'd pop in here and ask for some help revolving around my Homebrew Space Marine Chapter and it's combat doctrine.

Anyway, my Chapter is called the Indomitable Boars and they're not the best equipped nor very glory/heroics inclined.. A solid century of brutal conflicts have literately rendered a vast majority of their land vehicle either obsolete or destroyed. That said, the Chapter has resorted to fighting in tangent with the Imperial Guard in larger scale conflicts. Because of their sheer religious zealotry I was kinda thinking the Astarte's fighting beside the Guards would be akin to a priestly figure, as well... But that's for later.

The idea I had in mind is given the rather grave circumstances, both Guard and Astarte's would work in unison using what tools they possess to compliment one another. For instance, the Battle Barge and several other space faring ships. You know, different things.

But yes, any idea's on how this partnership could work would be greatly appreciated. I've been mulling it around in my head and it's driving me bonkers!

 

One upside to all this is their Chapter Homeworld. New Boars can be recruited in larger stock since the populace are physically more suited to accept the gene-seed process. However, take into consideration the mortality rate, and they barely maintain a solid 600 - 800 active Marines... The 41rst millennium is not a kind one.

I'm hoping those numbers might help inspire an idea or two.

The reason why they have to work in cohesion with Guardsmen forces:

For centuries the Eden Sector- some two hundred worlds- have been subjected to infighting, traitor marine invasions, and corsair attacks. After a Warp Storm blocked out the Astronomicon, another chapter went rogue and later was absorbed into an Iron Warriors Warband. Word Bearers have capitalized on the havoc stating the Emperor has abandoned them... And then you got dicks who attempted to forge their own empires. Even though the Warp Storms have since cleared the situation has spiraled so out of control that it would take a fairly large crusade force and a good dozen chapters to measure up to the predators and tyrants in Eden... So any surviving Imperials have been left there. The Boars can't leave cause of their oaths and other factions genuinely believe they can retake the sector.

Anyway, after all that is said and done the next century hasn't been very good to the Imperium. The Astarte's have no vehicle support besides a few carefully tended to Rhino's, eight Thunder Hawks, and scarce few other transport devices. Hell, they haven't had Terminator armor in ages. So yes, you can see why it's come to this point given the reasoning here.

 

I hope to brain storm some idea's with you fine chaps and read your glorious idea's!

[Zhiv]

 

Hello everyone, I'm new to Bolter and Chainsword but figured I'd pop in here and ask for some help revolving around my Homebrew Space Marine Chapter and it's combat doctrine.

Welcome! This is the place for lore keepers and this is likely one of the best places for lore related questions online.  Ideas are bounced back and forth, analyzed and debated with varying forms of success.

 

Now to the matter at hand.

 

Anyway, my Chapter is called the Indomitable Boars and they're not the best equipped nor very glory/heroics inclined.. A solid century of brutal conflicts have literately rendered a vast majority of their land vehicle either obsolete or destroyed.

Technically marine equipment is never obsolete. See, the older the items are, the more venerable and more respectable they are. Rhinos ahve been around for ten millenia and seeing how stagnant the technological developed in the Imperium is and how marine get always the best equipment, their stuff is rarely obsolete. Now knowing that marines get the best equipment that the rest of the Imperial forces can only dream of also leads to marines being supplied better than most other organizations. Several forge worlds churn out equipment for marines to wage war with.  Now, at given moment (say, after a long campaign) a chapter might be lacking equipment but could also trust Administratum to rectify matters as soon as possible.

 

Now there are several reasons why marine chapter might lose access to all the resources of the Imperium. Turning renegade would be one such thing.  Of course this doesn't really work with what you've written so you might need to ponder this.

 

 

That said, the Chapter has resorted to fighting in tangent with the Imperial Guard in larger scale conflicts. Because of their sheer religious zealotry I was kinda thinking the Astarte's fighting beside the Guards would be akin to a priestly figure, as well... But that's for later.

Marines have priestly figures among their ranks by default and yes, marines are kinda seen sacred warriors of the Emperor, his Angels of Death. Sadly, most chapters don't give flying duck about the humans they fight with, often leaving them to die in droves when their own objective has been secured.

 

 

But yes, any idea's on how this partnership could work would be greatly appreciated. I've been mulling it around in my head and it's driving me bonkers!

Basically marines go where they want and when they want, even though Imperial Commanders of sufficient rank can request their assistance.  So you don't really need a reason for marines to fight alongside guard.  Several Imperial crusades / campaigns see marines forces attached to them.

 

 

One upside to all this is their Chapter Homeworld. New Boars can be recruited in larger stock since the populace are physically more suited to accept the gene-seed process. However, take into consideration the mortality rate, and they barely maintain a solid 600 - 800 active Marines... The 41rst millennium is not a kind one.

 

Nothing particularly odd there.

 

Before you continue, I recommend you read through this and this to see if they give you some more ideas on how to expand what you've written down,

[Badass_Spaz]

I appreciate the welcoming Zhiz, good know some lore buffs are hanging around to help me out.

To further elaborate, the idea behind this Chapter is one meant to inevitably fail, fighting a desperate war spanning centuries in the vein hope they'll simply survive. What equipment they have access to is munitions and power armor because the former Mechanicus that supplied them splintered into a series of Dark Mechanicus Covens.

 

A Warp Storm separated them from the wider Imperium for fifty years, and in that time, two whole Chapters have been wiped from existence. Two-hundred worlds once firmly in the Imperiums grasp have fallen to a myriad of forces. As it stands, only eighteen remain and that's because Imperial forces gave up worlds and receded into obscurity letting the foul enemies duke it out. What now remains are remnants of the Imperium that once was. They don't have the facilities to construct Land Raiders or Predators. Distress signals sent into the wider Imperium haven't been responded to because they know Edith is lost, that they simply cannot muster the forces to salvage it.

With all that said the remnant Imperial Forces have begun working in unison with one another, mainly the Guard and Astarte's. So you can kinda see why they might care a bit more about the Guardsmen than other Astarte's might... They're all that remains. If they don't work together it'll eventually all come tumbling down sooner rather then later.

So really the question is how I would properly integrate the Astarte's and Guard forces in equal measure and what role the Astarte's themselves might/could play besides priestly figures.

 

Oh, and I posted my Homebrew in the forum section but still editing things so some information might conflict with other.

And lastly... That guide to DIYing is freaking extensive!

[utilityzero]

Do they control the guard they fight with or just cooperate very closely?

 

The simplest answer is to have the marines do what they do best. Assaults, take and hold objectives until relieved by guard forces. Deep strikes, raiding and boarding actions. The guard provide numbers and armor and artillery while your marines tackle critical objectives.

[Badass_Spaz]

They don't control the guard but it isn't uncommon for them to be seen in the thick of the fight beside other guards.

Either way, you're just about on the money with that one. The Space Marines are elite :cuss kickers, nothing else. They swoop in, bash skulls, hold the point until reinforced, and move on. So yea, I don't see why I should muck about with an already established and simple arrangements like that.

Thanks for the insight Zero, appreciate it.

[utilityzero]

No problem. Since it's a very close relationship you should take the opportunity to explore the nature of their pacts and alliances with the other elements of the Imperium as you finish up their background. Also, why can't they get any meaningful resupply from the Mechanicum? Is their no forgeworld within the sector at all? I would focus on that and how the Guard can get tanks but the chapter can't.

[Badass_Spaz]

That's actually a fairly good idea, now that you think about it. I'm kinda swamped with writing background fluff regarding how this glorious Empire fell into ruin but that's something to think about later on.

 

Well, lets not go so far as tanks per se. I'm working on the history right now but if you want, I can pm you the Imperial Army composition that currently remains in Edith Sector... Err, the ones I'll primarily be focusing on. Basically, fecal matter hit the fan to such a degree that some regiments can't even get their grubby hands on las-weapons. The former duo of Forge Worlds have splintered into a series of warring Dark Mechanicus covens and surviving Loyalist Mechanicus have founded small Forges in still Imperial Controlled space. I'd actually go as far as to say the CSM and fellow traitor homies might be slightly better equipped than the Imperials. Lolz

 

Given how far stretched the Imperial War Machine is given the era there's virtually no hope for resupply or reinforcements in the foresee century, if not millennia... Yea, forcing the grimdark all the way.

[Zhiv]

Another question is, if there's no loyal forge worlds around, who keeps the local Imperial navy supplied and fueled? I am sure there are reserves and stockpiles, but when you start to run out of Leman Russ tanks, you've already ran out of things like 'trained ship crews' and 'navigators' not to mention all the things needed to maintain the fleets.

[Badass_Spaz]

Actually they have run out of navigator and a bulk of the Imperial Navy is either refitted merchant vessels, pirate ships, and other ghetto fabulous vessels. There a few shipyards that do maintain the vessels and Forges that resupply the more advanced vehicles but those are few and in between. The largest forge resides in the Space Hulk Brass Behemoth that lodged inside a moon. Otherwise, they barely have coffee money. Oh, and warp travel in short transits using cogitators.

There are still eighteen planets with varying uses. The idea is a collection of worlds that have receded into obscurity, biding their time while the bigger players duke it out... That's kinda how they've manage to assemble what little could be assembled. The only grandiose vessel that needs deliberate upkeep is the remaining Astarte's Battle Barge. Besides that there's not much to be desired.

I'm wondering if I'm trying too hard to keep the grimdark theme. Hehe

[utilityzero]

I think rather than having them be utterly screwed with no major forge operating and no hope of resupply, I'd give them something, one 'minor' forge that barely keeps them running. Having to retool to supply a naval battle group, the entire guard presence in the sector and a chapter of Adeptus Astartes would leave them stretched very thin. The competition for scare resources would be real source of contention between Imperial forces too, which could be part of your dark and doomed theme as different groups go to great lengths and use nefarious means to get a leg up on their comrades. Maybe the forgeworld is cut off from raw materials and their output isn't able to be maintained at peak levels.

 

Rather than a total lack of factorium, it could simply be too little for what they need to keep supplied for too long. Also your marines might have developed into excellent raiders, almost pirates as they take much of what they need from traitors.

 

Also, I realize this might already be decided for you, but I always suggest reconsidering a warp storm as a major plot point. Even when GW does it it seems like a cop out at times. If there is any other way for it to be done I'd go with that. The Imperium is a big place. Perhaps this sector has simply been forgotten or written off leaving your chapter to struggle alone against certain doom. That would make their struggle even more heroic as they could leave but chose not to.

 

I think that grimdark and doom needs some sort of hope if for no other reason than to show how desperate they are and how slim their chances are. Just somethings I thought about.

 

Also sorry for spelling and stuff... I'm on my phone.

[Badass_Spaz]

(( Thanks for the brilliant piracy ideas, emphasizing scarce resources, and Warp Storm issue. Much obliged my good man! ))

 

See now you're beginning to understand just how thoroughly screwed this Sector has become. I've been toying around with some idea's where Boar's where the armor of fallen traitor marines, still barring the heraldry and all but include tusks on the helm. You know, a definitive f-you to those traitors lurking out there. Also it helps further press the point for lacking resources.

Technically speaking, they've essentially become pirates albeit very professional ones. The controlled worlds could be considered rallying points for said pirates but obvious privileges given to the Astarte's. Soooo... I may pluck that idea from you. Imagine a well-greased munitorum drone accidentally diverting Astarte's bolter shells to a particular regiment and twenty minutes later an Astarte's boots down your office door with a bloody bolter that's become an impromptu cudgel? By the Emperor, I can smell the soiled breaches already. Lolz

 

Don't worry buddy, I recently thought of that one myself. The bureaucratic nightmare that is the Imperium, especially in the 41st millennium could easily forget about a sector. So while there is a Warp Storm (Sorta) still, it isn't the fifty year interval but a mini-eye, so to speak. My idea is the collective Chaos forces that contest the Sector cause all four gods, for the briefest of moments, to see the Edith sector but most importantly, the Boar's home itself.. In that very instant the Boar's homeworld is torn asunder and what remains is a tear in real space.

Nothing significant like daemons pouring out but it becomes increasingly more difficult to discern traitor marines from loyal marines.

I personally like the idea that hope itself comes from their faith, their resolve. Despite their losses and tragedies that befell them, several hundred years later they remain the devoted defenders of mankind. As for the remnants as a whole, their hope is propoganda, purposely leading the masses into disillusion. The current regiments, I'd go as far to wager commanders don't grasp the enormity of the forces surrounding them. Several generations have passed and since then, piracy (Thank you, by the way) and scavenging have become the norm. So while all might seemingly be lost they themselves either don't know it or wouldn't believe it.

And I'm expanding on your Forge idea. I had this funny thought where a Space Hulk is lodged inside a planet and over the centuries it's been renovated to become the dominate forge. It'll probably produce more advanced equip (Power Armor, Bolters, Munition) while other forges/shipyards are predominately naval inclined. The Space Hulk Forge would offer certain services and specialized maintenance in return for supplies. For example, say you need a specialists in logistics in your armored (That's stretching it) division but a chunk of them have been maimed/crushed/sacrificed/infected. That Forge will supply said regiment with specialized servitors for the task, or if they're offering an even tempting bit of booty, have a collection of guys/girls under mind altering procedures that imprint needed information... And some specialized servitors to grease the cog, so to speak. How does that sound to you?

The way I've built my regiments have been surprisingly ghetto while maintaining minimal, very minimal, tech-priest involvements.

[utilityzero]

You don't have to alter the way the Mechanicum does things all that much to get the effect you want. They see themselves as allied to the Imperium, but rarely will they admit to being it's vassal, and even then, they have certain rights and protections. So the idea of trading their expertise for resources and protection is the norm, not really a departure from standard practice.

 

Perhaps the forgeworld is in such dire straights they have clamped down on their technological monopoly. Rather than letting the Boars rebuild, they provide them only with enough to keep them afloat. They wouldn't really be equipped to train new techmarines anyway, so the Boars have to rely almost entirely upon the Mechanicum for new supplies of heavy equipment, as well as to maintain it in the long term and in return, they are tied to the forgeworld ever more closely, though as Astartes I'm sure they'd resent this arrangement. In a way, the Boars would be reduced to the same status as the Munitorum and their piracy might extend to things beyond their immediate need, to 'pay' the forgeworld for what support they do receive?

[Zhiv]

Perhaps the forgeworld is in such dire straights they have clamped down on their technological monopoly. Rather than letting the Boars rebuild, they provide them only with enough to keep them afloat. They wouldn't really be equipped to train new techmarines anyway, so the Boars have to rely almost entirely upon the Mechanicum for new supplies of heavy equipment, as well as to maintain it in the long term and in return, they are tied to the forgeworld ever more closely, though as Astartes I'm sure they'd resent this arrangement. In a way, the Boars would be reduced to the same status as the Munitorum and their piracy might extend to things beyond their immediate need, to 'pay' the forgeworld for what support they do receive?

 

Well, IF Mechanicum starts to deny services or demand favors from any chapter, the chapter can point at Treaty of Olympus and decree that the Mechanicus faction responsible is heretic for basically 'Betraying their pact' with Emperor.  In which case the Marines (and rest of Imperial forces) could just go and take what they want.  Of course Forge World could fight back but this would brand them as Dark Mechanicus.  Hence if there is functioning loyal Forge World in the system, said world is going to do its damnest to keep the Imperial forces supplied. 

[Badass_Spaz]

Ooo, Mr.Zero, you're making my skin crawl with anticipation. That's actually quite interesting. We could further expand upon this where the Forge they're tied to might take jabs at them. Provoke them to undertake certain Mechanicus endeavors to secure lost technology during the Sector's eventual fall. The Boars wouldn't like it but two Cestus Rams were shot down last week. That makes a lot of sense given the current circumstances. You're doing me a solid to flesh out the Chapter as a whole.

I'm wondering what you might believe the Tech-Priest would think concerning the state of their degrading gene-seed, utilizing traitor equipment, and other seemingly heretical practices. Do you believe the Tech-Priest would even help preserve the Chapter in its current state or seek other means of protection and supply?

Do you mind if I toss an idea regarding psuedo-dreadnaughts?

Zhiz: The Forge in question isn't exactly a Forge World but a modified Space Hulk lodged in a planet. The vessels inside have been cannibalized and spat back out to resemble a series of crude factorums producing advanced arms and armaments. And like the previously stated question; their gene-seed is succumbing to psychological, and gradually, physical mutations. It's my guess if the Mechanicum would even perceive them as true Astarte's or just perversions of the real thing.

[Zhiv]

Zhiz: The Forge in question isn't exactly a Forge World but a modified Space Hulk lodged in a planet. The vessels inside have been cannibalized and spat back out to resemble a series of crude factorums producing advanced arms and armaments. And like the previously stated question; their gene-seed is succumbing to psychological, and gradually, physical mutations. It's my guess if the Mechanicum would even perceive them as true Astarte's or just perversions of the real thing.

 

It doesn't really matter where or how the equipment is made. As long as the show in the forges  / space hulk / chocolate factory is ran by Adeptus Mechanicus, they are oath bound to provide equipment to Astartes and Astra Militarum on risk of being branded heretic. 

 

Of course, if you marines look like boogey men (with visible mutations) the Adepts might decide that your marines are corrupt and thus not part of the Imperium and would thus not support them.  But this would also mean that any local Imperial Guard forces would likely see your marines as mutants too (especially if priests / comissars are around) and thus would not work with them. 

 

The whole concept of 'marines, but poorly equipped' is hard concept fluff-wise because the marines always get the best equipment with the tech-magos oath bound to keep the supplied. If you remove the magos from the system, you lose access to most resources like ships, high energy weapons and tech marines. If you keep the tech-magos, the there is equipment for the marines as long as the factoriums function.

[Badass_Spaz]

Chocolate Factory, yes. Only in the 40K do chocolate factories double as Godwin Pattern Bolter factorums.

Not exactly hard given the current state of affairs. The Sector is in ruins, Chaos forces muff all the chicken up, and the remaining Imperial presence is degrading. From what I've read, the Imperial War Machine in the late 41st Millennia is stretched to its absolute limit. It stands to reason that whole sectors would suffer tremendously during this era. There for, in an Imperium with a million worlds, some two-hundred could easily fall under the radar and whole chapters could disappear and no one the wiser for possibly centuries.

My idea for physical mutation ultimately lead Marines to, putting it bluntly, be entombed in their power armor. Built in life supports, limbs being amputated in drastic cases and replaced with bionics and unfortunate enough to live through it all. The Astarte's might appear as Astarte's but underneath might be another story entirely.

I want to believe that Magos recognize their decorated history as defenders but then again, this is the Mechanicum we're talking about. Hyper literal, machine worshiping zealots. So even though I adore the idea that Boars would be entombed in their armor to mask their mutations it's one that could easily be thrown out the window.

[utilityzero]

I'm not sure what you mean by pseudo dreads?

 

The Imperium is never that clear cut or black and white. The Mechanicum serves the Imperium, not the Adeptus Astartes. If they say they can't divert production capacity for a marine chapter, it doesn't give those marines the right to attack them nor would they be likely to pursuade others to help them in such an extreme act. Especially in a sector where they are more or less cut off from outsiders.

[Badass_Spaz]

This certainly derailed off topic and now I don't even know what the hell I'm doing. I'm honestly going to spend the weekend reconstructing things from top to bottom and hope the Emperor blesses me with the means to make sense of it all.

However, I do appreciate all the idea's and insight everyone has thrown my way. It's allowed me to see through my many plot holes and obvious errors.