Azorius Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 "Perhaps ironically however, this segregation also spared them the travails of the gene-seed crisis which almost destroyed the III' d (later the Emperor 's Children) and caused damage to the Vth (later the White Scars) and the IXth (later the Blood Angels) as well...", "for unlike Legion worlds such as Olympia and Baal, which while distant have become beacons in the darkness of the far frontiers..." It seems gene-seed crisis somehow affected multiple Legions. And Sanguinius rebuilt Baal in its former glory and magnificence. Also, we now know the original proponent of the Librarius is Sanguinius, not Magnus, and utilized psykers liberally and extensively, and entire structure and practice of the Librarius is originated from Baalite Blood Angels, not Prosperine Thousand Sons. Oh, I really aspire to see Angelus. And Baal during Advent of the Great Angel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 The gene-seed crisis has been that way since Book 1: Betrayal; what effectively happened was the Emperor's Children got doubly 'unlucky,' as a ship carrying the majority of their gene-seed was shot down by separatists/crashed, meaning that when the artificial blight hit, they were far more vulnerable and the only Legion to lose the entirety of their supply. 'Many' Legions were effected, it will be interesting if Angelus adds more detail to this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4672408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azorius Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 The gene-seed crisis has been that way since Book 1: Betrayal; what effectively happened was the Emperor's Children got doubly 'unlucky,' as a ship carrying the majority of their gene-seed was shot down by separatists/crashed, meaning that when the artificial blight hit, they were far more vulnerable and the only Legion to lose the entirety of their supply. 'Many' Legions were effected, it will be interesting if Angelus adds more detail to this. Yeah, I re-read the Betrayal. Thank you for reminding me - I'm doubly interested so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4672415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azorius Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 And, if restored Baal System and subordinate domains under wise and benevolent rule of Sanguinius was a utopian paradise, we could safely assume upcoming Siege of Baal (Angelus is going to enunciate it accordingly) will devastate it into current hellhole and tolled death knell of a noble dream. Intriguingly enough, that is perfectly mirrored by the wider Imperium of the Age of Darkness... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4672638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 I always thought Sanguinius would be a type of Primarch that would restore his homeworld, as opposed to leaving it a barren irradiated wasteland. Poor Blood Angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4672915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Sounds like he may have done exactly that based on new hints. But that it gets nuked right back to wasteland during the heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4672998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azorius Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 Poor Baal System, so far from Terra and so close to the Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4673177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Sanguinius and the Khan are meant to have devised more of the makeup of the Librarius than Magnus. From what Yesugei tells us, Magnus was reluctant to accept any restrictions, and the Librarius was mean to be a safe framework for psyker activity within the Legions. The gene-seed crisis would also explain why the Scars have Terran misfits, but no notable Terran holdouts. No Lorkes or Garros. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4673436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azorius Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 And since 'many' Legions, not 'a few' or 'one or two' are affected by blight along with Emperor's Children, I suppose Blood Angels and White Scars shall comprise only a portion of afflicted Legions. If not...then it would be a poor choice of word, or outright disregarding of previous fluff, just as FW suddenly and abruptly altered Ultramarines fleet strength from 'very large and formidable' to 'mediocre and mostly composed of strike cruisers with very few heavy capital ships'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4674481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Sounds like he may have done exactly that based on new hints. But that it gets nuked right back to wasteland during the heresy. Yeah, that's the tragedy of it that maybe for a century or so it was restored to it's idyllic state then once again reverted back to Mad Max. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4674691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azorius Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 Sounds like he may have done exactly that based on new hints. But that it gets nuked right back to wasteland during the heresy. Yeah, that's the tragedy of it that maybe for a century or so it was restored to it's idyllic state then once again reverted back to Mad Max. I agree with you in totality. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4674836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taliesin Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 "Perhaps ironically however, this segregation also spared them the travails of the gene-seed crisis which almost destroyed the III' d (later the Emperor 's Children) and caused damage to the Vth (later the White Scars) and the IXth (later the Blood Angels) as well...", "for unlike Legion worlds such as Olympia and Baal, which while distant have become beacons in the darkness of the far frontiers..." It seems gene-seed crisis somehow affected multiple Legions. And Sanguinius rebuilt Baal in its former glory and magnificence. Also, we now know the original proponent of the Librarius is Sanguinius, not Magnus, and utilized psykers liberally and extensively, and entire structure and practice of the Librarius is originated from Baalite Blood Angels, not Prosperine Thousand Sons. This is from Inferno? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4675358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedFurioso Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Report from HH Weekender This map really demonstrated how the war could progress as Warp travel is not reliable but certain routes can be trusted more than others. A key feature was that for Horus to attack Terra he must travel through two key systems: Baal and Beta-Garman. These two worlds (one being covered in Angelus and one in Adeptus Titanicus) are going to be key stories covered in Black Books and BL. Baal has the majority of the IXth Legion that did not travel to Signus whereas Beta-Garman has a high proportion of titans. http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/9279-penddraigs-summary-of-the-heresy-weekender-17/&do=findComment&comment=173906 Even if Horus travelled through Baal, the fortress-monastery still stands. He could have destroyed entire planet, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4675425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azorius Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 "Perhaps ironically however, this segregation also spared them the travails of the gene-seed crisis which almost destroyed the III' d (later the Emperor 's Children) and caused damage to the Vth (later the White Scars) and the IXth (later the Blood Angels) as well...", "for unlike Legion worlds such as Olympia and Baal, which while distant have become beacons in the darkness of the far frontiers..." It seems gene-seed crisis somehow affected multiple Legions. And Sanguinius rebuilt Baal in its former glory and magnificence. Also, we now know the original proponent of the Librarius is Sanguinius, not Magnus, and utilized psykers liberally and extensively, and entire structure and practice of the Librarius is originated from Baalite Blood Angels, not Prosperine Thousand Sons. This is from Inferno? Of course. And according to Betrayal, there are more than those two Legions - in fact, 'many' - are afflicted by the blight wrecked gene seed of the Emperor's Children. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4675612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 That figures - the Librarius was designed as a constraint on uninhibited exploration of psychic powers. Magnus had to be persuaded by the Angel and the Khan to help create it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4675764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Report from HH Weekender This map really demonstrated how the war could progress as Warp travel is not reliable but certain routes can be trusted more than others. A key feature was that for Horus to attack Terra he must travel through two key systems: Baal and Beta-Garman. These two worlds (one being covered in Angelus and one in Adeptus Titanicus) are going to be key stories covered in Black Books and BL. Baal has the majority of the IXth Legion that did not travel to Signus whereas Beta-Garman has a high proportion of titans. http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/9279-penddraigs-summary-of-the-heresy-weekender-17/&do=findComment&comment=173906 Even if Horus travelled through Baal, the fortress-monastery still stands. He could have destroyed entire planet, though. My speculation is that Horus presents a Batman-like choice to Sanguinius: save Baal or save Terra. "....we hunt him, because he can take it." -The Dark Knight Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4676169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I don't think Baal was restored to its former glory. I think it was still a radioactive wasteland. However, he brought civilization to it. Think NCR from fallout or a thriving city in the middle of a desert. He took something terrible and made a haven in it. Plus the codex kind of makes it clear it didn't get fixed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4676174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulemain Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Considering Sanguinius is described as having met the Emperor in a great amphitheatre, and the descriptions of mining minerals and so forth, one gets the impression that he restored Baal only to have it ruined again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4676187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 What? No it doesn't give that impression. The codex is clear, they had *hope* that he would restore it, but he left before that dream could be realized. The amphitheater was leftover "ruins". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4676190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I don't think Baal was restored to its former glory. I think it was still a radioactive wasteland. However, he brought civilization to it. Think NCR from fallout or a thriving city in the middle of a desert. He took something terrible and made a haven in it. Plus the codex kind of makes it clear it didn't get fixed. I think that's a bit more what it's like in 40k. Considering Sanguinius is described as having met the Emperor in a great amphitheatre, and the descriptions of mining minerals and so forth, one gets the impression that he restored Baal only to have it ruined again. I've been harping on the same point so often recently, but there's really very little written on the IX/Sanguinius. So I don't know if we can (yet) say anything definitely one way or another. That being said, my gut tells me that Baal was at least far along the process of being rejuvenated. For one, it fits with Sanguinius' character: the betterment of humanity through inspiration. And secondly it would make its loss (during Heresy?) that much more tragic and his deliberate sacrifice that much greater. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4676192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 No, I'm quoting what it says about Baal when Sanguinius leaves. I don't have my codex on hand, so I'm finding the quote the hard way because I've quoted it before. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4676202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantras Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 There was a story in one of the anthology's where there are some small amount of Blood Angels left of Baal who believe they could well be the last of their Legion. An agent of Malcador arrives and grabs one of them - but they key point is Baal is described as a wasteland here and this is set after Sang leaves but before Horus could wreck it again. Ergo - Baal never got "fixed" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4676205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Plus, since the amphitheater was mentioned, remember that when Sanguinius teared up it was a huge deal because something actually grew where the tears fell? That wouldn't be a big deal if the earth wasn't barren. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4676211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I don't think Baal was restored to its former glory. I think it was still a radioactive wasteland. However, he brought civilization to it. Think NCR from fallout or a thriving city in the middle of a desert. He took something terrible and made a haven in it. Plus the codex kind of makes it clear it didn't get fixed. "Beacon in the great darkness of the frontier" can be taken a lot of different ways. It could mean that a significant effort was being made to restore Baal and it's moons, or it could mean by just being a Legion Homeworld, having Astartes there in such concentration would be a safe haven compared to the rest of the lawless, unconquered void. From how I consider Sanguinius' personality I feel as though the effort to restore Baal would be made. He doesn't strike me as the Russ/Ferrus "privation makes them strong" Primarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4676239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Which I pointed out: the codex makes it very clear, the people (and him) had *hopes* to restore it, but the codex is very, very clear, it would not be because Sanguinius immediately jumped into the Crusade with the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331597-baal-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-4676256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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