Will number of Blood Angels be retconned?

[Azorius]

Fear to Tread says number of IXth Legion is 120,000 - but that information was given during late Crusade era, not Heresy era, and nigh-obsoleted figure regardless - Fear to Thread was released before first of Black Books, just same as 100,000 Word Bearers or 10,000 Thousand Sons or 'tens of thousands' Space Wolves.

 

And how do you think about approximate number of Heresy era White Scars? Once, during the Unification era, Vth Legion was one of the largest Legion and very swiftly put to active-service alongside the Ist and IVth Legions(Extermination). 

 

However gene seed crisis/contamination afflicted IIIth Legion also affected 'many' Legions gene seed stocks - including Vth and IXth Legions(Betrayal and Inferno)

 

But in spite of this calamity, it seems Vth Legion was quite active early to mid Crusade era and considered 'quixotic' by the wider Imperium(Massacre).

 

So...let's conduct some blainstorming regarding these topics! 

[Arkangilos]

Nah, I think they will stay around 120,000. I do think they will be reorganized, though (and I hope!). In Fear to Tread they were just in companies, which is dumb. Hopefully they will have higher levels of command.

[Charlo]

120k is a fair number really - seems about right. Middling.

[Azorius]

I personally think 130k or more would be reasonable. Since 130k is considered as 'middling' Legion number and Space Wolves achieved 130k with only a single recruitment domain during late Crusade era - although their ranks were depleted due to 'heavy degree of campaigning' and immediately prior Heresy, SW was composed of around 100k Astartes. 

 

"This itself reflected the heavy degree of campaigning the Space Wolves had conducted in the preceding decades, having fallen in overall strength from about 130,000 after a series of actions, some of whose nature remains sealed."

 

If Blood Angels did not suffer comparable casualties during closing era of the Crusade, then it is probable they already broke ~130k 'mid-tier' barrier before Signus Campaign. 

[Arkangilos]

The BA have one of the tougher Geneseeds though. By tougher I mean a higher mortality rate.

[Azorius]

The BA have one of the tougher Geneseeds though. By tougher I mean a higher mortality rate.

So does the Space Wolves, despite the fact that apparently Fenrisians possessed(and still possessing) super special genetic traits enjoying the highest possible compatibility with Wolf King's peculiar gene seed and ameliorated implantation problem immensely. 

 

I hope the Blood Angels become the third Loyalist Legion breaking 130k barrier. You know, most Loyalist Legions are...rather small, except gargantuan Dark Angels and Ultramarines.  

[Arkangilos]

No no, I mean it was more painful and more difficult to pay off than any other legion (per Book VI). Like, it was even more difficult than the Space Wolves.

[Arkangilos]

"There was a price however for this power, and the process of transformation was a more arcane, elaborate and painful one than that endured by any other Legion. Even with the direct infusion of its Primarch's own blood to stabilise the process, the rate of fatalities among aspirants was frighteningly high. There were also those who argued that the mental scars suffered by those who survived the change were just as deep, instilling a sense of cause and purpose that manifested as unflinching, unreasoning fanaticism bordering on madness, a certainty which could in mere moments turn to insane fury when that purpose was challenged."

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317985-hh-weekender-2016-thread-titan-secutarii-pg-56/?p=4295894

[Azorius]

Yeah, however, if figure given by Fear to Tread is still valid, despite of such difficulties and early gene seed crisis, Blood Angels reached 120,000 years, if not decades, before onset of the Heresy.

 

And unlike Space Wolves, BA is not recruiting from a single feral world. 

 

So adding paltry 10,000 or more would make perfect sense, at least to me. 

[RedFurioso]

>so it was that three of the most powerful and stauch Legions - the Dark Angels, the Blood Angels and the Ultramarines, were sent by Horus to regions far from Earth and from the Isstvan system

So Blood Angels Legion was one of the "Big Three". Their 120k still bigger than 113k of Iron Hands Legion, most numerous Legion of other loyalist 6. No need to increase their numbers, they are already BIG

[Azorius]

>so it was that three of the most powerful and stauch Legions - the Dark Angels, the Blood Angels and the Ultramarines, were sent by Horus to regions far from Earth and from the Isstvan system

So Blood Angels Legion was one of the "Big Three". Their 120k still bigger than 113k of Iron Hands Legion, most numerous Legion of other loyalist 6. No need to increase their numbers, they are already BIG

7k is almost negligible figure. In contrast, 17k+ is a lot more meaningful, and empowering BA to be fitted into the description.

And while 120k is third largest in loyalists, in traitors, that is nothing noticeable.

Even NL has more legionaries - closer to 150k, or even more.

[Godspear]

Maybe I'm forgetting a keystone piece of the fluff, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but if the BA, UM, DA, etc... If all these chapters had well over 100k astartes, how is it that all second founding chapters can be accounted for, when we typically only get 2 or 3 per legion?  If each chapter is 1k at full strength, that leaves a lot of marines out there unaccounted for.

[Olis]

Maybe I'm forgetting a keystone piece of the fluff, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but if the BA, UM, DA, etc... If all these chapters had well over 100k astartes, how is it that all second founding chapters can be accounted for, when we typically only get 2 or 3 per legion?  If each chapter is 1k at full strength, that leaves a lot of marines out there unaccounted for.

 

Well... they tried to retcon that in one of the Grey Knight codices - 5th edition if I recall correctly. Said something along the lines of there being four hundred second founding Chapters (unless I'm grossly misremembering matters). I'm not aware of many people trusting that source over the old tried and tested Apocryphas, seeing as it was from the time of Matt Ward codices.

 

But that's somewhat off-topic. I apologise. 

[Canadian_F_H]

I also always assumed that by the time the second founding occured that most loyalist legions had suffered apocalyptic casualties, especially those on terra.

[Arkangilos]

Yeah, between huge losses and lost records the second founding numbers have changed. Plus it's always said that the 24 or whatever chapters in it weren't a comprehensive list, just the more notable and remembered ones. It was also written when legions were only 10k strong.

 

I have a feeling there were a lot more, but a lot of them died over the years.