Sigismund229 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The most obvious explanation for the way in which the Emperor treats Angron is that the Emperor doesn't view the primarchs as anything other than weapons and Angron will serve, like it or not. However, I've always found this explanation a bit odd as it's a very different Emperor than we see when Horus is reminiscing about his younger years when the Emperor indulged his interest in the stars. So that begs the question of why did was the Emperor so :cussty to Angron? Why did he not release the War Hounds to fight at Angron's side? My answer is that it's because the Emperor is human and vulnerable to his emotions, like the rest of us. He went to meet Angron and offer to save him. However, Angron refused and chose to fight and die alongside his gladiator bretheren and my guess is that Angron wouldn't take kindly to being saved by the War Hounds, no matter what he says with hindsight in Betrayer. My theory is that the Emperor saw this and decided to respect Angron's decision. However, then, as battle was joined, his feelings for Angron overcame his decision to respect Angron's decision and he was unable to stand by and watch his son die. This explains the late stage at which he teleported Angron back on the bridge. Some may ask why he never told Angron this if this was indeed his reasoning. However, even if he did, do we honestly think Angron would believe him knowing how bitter and angry Angron was about the whole thing and how he likened the Emperor the High Riders that forced him to fight in the arena. What do folks reckon of this theory? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000 Sons Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 He does talk to the Arkan Land about the primarchs in an emotionless way, maybe he does so because he is playing the role of the Omnisiah. If he becomes all weepy and sad while operating on Angron in front of Land, it might send doubts to Mars that he is the machine God. The space marines have a role, and would probably have gone the way of the thunder warriors, but the primarchs I think had long term goals for each of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4678913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 It's hinted that the Emperor doesn't actually speak. He just makes you understand his thoughts, in a manner befitting most the recipient. That's why he speaks in such ways to a mechanicum adept, and very differently to His sons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4678975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The most obvious explanation for the way in which the Emperor treats Angron is that the Emperor doesn't view the primarchs as anything other than weapons and Angron will serve, like it or not. However, I've always found this explanation a bit odd as it's a very different Emperor than we see when Horus is reminiscing about his younger years when the Emperor indulged his interest in the stars. So that begs the question of why did was the Emperor so :cussty to Angron? Why did he not release the War Hounds to fight at Angron's side? My answer is that it's because the Emperor is human and vulnerable to his emotions, like the rest of us. He went to meet Angron and offer to save him. However, Angron refused and chose to fight and die alongside his gladiator bretheren and my guess is that Angron wouldn't take kindly to being saved by the War Hounds, no matter what he says with hindsight in Betrayer. My theory is that the Emperor saw this and decided to respect Angron's decision. However, then, as battle was joined, his feelings for Angron overcame his decision to respect Angron's decision and he was unable to stand by and watch his son die. This explains the late stage at which he teleported Angron back on the bridge. Some may ask why he never told Angron this if this was indeed his reasoning. However, even if he did, do we honestly think Angron would believe him knowing how bitter and angry Angron was about the whole thing and how he likened the Emperor the High Riders that forced him to fight in the arena. What do folks reckon of this theory? After Desh'ea states that he had no clue what he was, what he was created for or who the warriors were that walked into his chambers aboard the ship he was boarded. The only things he knew/we know, is that his capture was at the hands of the Emperor and that Angron had killed a custodes. If the Emperor was vulnerable to emotions, it could be asked: what loss would he have in telling Angron why exactly he was saved and why he did not save his brothers and sisters on Nuceria, would that not lay the burden of emotion off the relationship with his XII Primarch? My guess at why he was saved was simply because the Emperor did not know what damage the nails did until later in the Crusade after the implantation of World Eaters. Where he had found out how effective the nails were in the Legion and simply used Angron as a tool of destruction until his time had passed. On the question of believing what the emperor said, I would say that he would. After all, he was still capable of thought outside of the nails drilling into him. I think one of the main reasons other than 'freedom' for him turning was because of that lack of an answer from the Emperor and any answer would be a good one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4679084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Nah, I don't think that theory works. If the Emperor had had a last minute change of heart like that, it doesn't actually solve the core issue. He could've teleported down himself with a posse of Custodes, and won the final battle, saving at least some of Angron's dudes. Even if he wasn't 'battle ready', he's the Emperor, he could take on a random mortal human army in his dressing gown, without even needing to put down his morning cuppa. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4679147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ion Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Could be that he thought that Angron's human army would have a bad influence on him, or negative impact on the Imperium in some way Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4679242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I think we may be missing the obvious. The Emperor wanted Desh'ea. In Betrayer the planet has become a compliant world and part of the Imperium. Doing things they way he did, the Emperor got his Primarch and the people of Desh'ea put down the rebellion and where favourable to the Emperor. win win from the Emperor's point of view. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4679288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokkorex Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 But then, if for example the emperor had arrived a bit early to lycaeus, then he would have sided with the tech-guilds and crushed corax rebellion in its infancy? Or sided with the city-dwellers againt jaghathais "barbarian" hordes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4679321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 There's some insight in Master of Mankind. The Emperor knew Angron was a broken toy and would eventually burn out and die, so I guess it's more a case of "I don't really care for him but let's see how much can I juice him for 50 years before the nails bite too deep". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4679476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompeyladbfp Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 prblem with Angron and trying to work out what made him turn, why he was so angry is he is brain damaged, he is mentally damaged and therefore the way we normal humans think and act and the way we expect Angron to act are worlds apart. I quite like how he was portayed in early books and also in Betrayer.. just all out Rage, and quite up for fighting everything even if he loses everything. its a shame the Emperor couldn't cure Angron (or didnt want too) reading MoM by ADB I do think a lot of people dont get that the Emperor and the way you hear/sense/see him is how he wants you to see/hear/sense him. thats why depedning on if he is talking to ad mech/custodes/primarch he co0mes across very different. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4680380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 prblem with Angron and trying to work out what made him turn, why he was so angry is he is brain damaged, he is mentally damaged and therefore the way we normal humans think and act and the way we expect Angron to act are worlds apart. I quite like how he was portayed in early books and also in Betrayer.. just all out Rage, and quite up for fighting everything even if he loses everything. its a shame the Emperor couldn't cure Angron (or didnt want too) reading MoM by ADB I do think a lot of people dont get that the Emperor and the way you hear/sense/see him is how he wants you to see/hear/sense him. thats why depedning on if he is talking to ad mech/custodes/primarch he co0mes across very different. Not entirely accurate as i see it, he was capable of thought and he was a Primarch after all, Hell 'Lord of the Red Sands' shows his true motives for turning on the Imperium and the Emperor he seemed pretty capable of thought there. The Majority of stories we have on him are from the start of the Heresy and onwards where we are reaching the end of his mental stability, sure he was damaged before that, but at the point the Emperor came, I am sure that he would have been stable enough for the Emperor to tell him his reasoning and why exactly he went about things the way he did. The only contrast we might see to how devolved his mind is at the beginning of the heresy is in his Primarchs book which I really hope, shows him growing on Nuceria. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4680417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Everyone hears what they want to hear. The Primarchs and marines were disposable weapons like the thunder warriors who preceded them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4680762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Everyone hears what they want to hear. The Primarchs and marines were disposable weapons like the thunder warriors who preceded them. Let's say that it is the legitimate reason of how the Emperor looks at the Legions and Primarchs like disposable weapons. What good can come from not taking care of a weapon? If you are going into battle you would want your sword sharp, not blunt or neglected. That is the difference in what we see with the Thunder Warriors and the Legions. The Legions are designed as far as we see at the moment with many different things in mind: empire builders, fortifiers, politicians, security and crafters where as the Thunder Warriors on the whole as far as revealed were exactly as they were created to be, an actual weapon wielded by the Emperor to Unify, a weapon that you don't really need to nurture because it sharpens itself, just being sure to direct the weapon the right way. Whereas the Primarchs are too different in personalities to just leave them to it, there is a pretty big example of what comes from just leaving them alone. What I am saying really is that Primarchs have a certain amount of maintenance to help them function effectively. I doubt we will know if getting rid of them at the end was his endgame, but if it was, it would not pay to neglect any of the Primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4680777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Everyone hears what they want to hear. The Primarchs and marines were disposable weapons like the thunder warriors who preceded them. Let's say that it is the legitimate reason of how the Emperor looks at the Legions and Primarchs like disposable weapons. What good can come from not taking care of a weapon? If you are going into battle you would want your sword sharp, not blunt or neglected. That is the difference in what we see with the Thunder Warriors and the Legions. The Legions are designed as far as we see at the moment with many different things in mind: empire builders, fortifiers, politicians, security and crafters where as the Thunder Warriors on the whole as far as revealed were exactly as they were created to be, an actual weapon wielded by the Emperor to Unify, a weapon that you don't really need to nurture because it sharpens itself, just being sure to direct the weapon the right way. Whereas the Primarchs are too different in personalities to just leave them to it, there is a pretty big example of what comes from just leaving them alone. What I am saying really is that Primarchs have a certain amount of maintenance to help them function effectively. I doubt we will know if getting rid of them at the end was his endgame, but if it was, it would not pay to neglect any of the Primarchs. Well there is strong indications that Magnis was slated to take the Emperor's place on the golden throne and become the infinite mana-battery for the beacon in the immaterium Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4680829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Everyone hears what they want to hear. The Primarchs and marines were disposable weapons like the thunder warriors who preceded them. Let's say that it is the legitimate reason of how the Emperor looks at the Legions and Primarchs like disposable weapons. What good can come from not taking care of a weapon? If you are going into battle you would want your sword sharp, not blunt or neglected. Bigger and more important matters to attend to than making sure one of your 18 weapons (which remains actually quite effective as a weapon) isn't as pretty to look at as the rest. At the end of the day, the Emperor didn't really care too much that World Eaters were more annihilators than conquerors, they were expanding the Empire's borders and removing all potential threats. In the grand scheme of things their excesses and massacres were a drop in the bucket. Can't make a galactic omelette without breaking a few trillion eggs. Say you are driving an old car that is worth like $2000. The air conditioner on it breaks, but it still drives fine. Air conditioner would take $1800 to repair. Do you spend that money, or do you drive it until summer rolls along and then dump it? Angron is the Toyota of Primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4681247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 One theory I've had is that the Emperor saw Angron all too ready to die in a pointless (from the Emperor's perspective) backwater engagement and thought "I can't lose another one..." And so he yanked Angron away in a moment of --dare I say it--almost insecurity. To me, the real question is why Big E didn't teleport down with a couple squads of Custodes and fight beside Spartacus Angron and his homies. That would have done wonders for Angron's morale and such. My guess is that Angron was defiant to the point of pissing off the Emperor to the point that the Emps punished Angron by watching his boys die from orbit. Geez....no wonder Angron's psychiatry bill is so high. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4681595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I think the reason the Emperor didn't deploy the XII was because Nucernia (Deshea?) had quickly met with compliance and had ready infrastructure to refit and resupply the fleets. The last obstacle to total compliance was...Angrons rebels. So it was a political :cuss over. IMO of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331793-emperor-angron-theory/#findComment-4681915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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