Shattered Legion queries

[apologist]

My project May You Live Forever, is coming to the point where I'm working out a way to use them on table. This'll involve using the Shattered Legion rules, as these seem an appropriate way of fielding odds and sods of Astartes.

 

Unfortunately, I'm finding the rules a little unclear, and just wanted to check that I'm applying them correctly. Here's the relevant section, quoted for specific wording:

 

 

 

• The Primary Detachment must contain elements of at least two different Legions (i.e. units with different versions of the Legiones Astartes special rule). In order to take any choices from a specific Legion, the force must contain a Praetor or Centurion (including any Consul types), or suitable HQ special character from the same Legion and each such character taken must be from a different Legion.

 

Assuming I take an Iron Hands Consul (a Legion Champion, to represent Bion Henricos), and a White Scars Centurion (to represent Hibou Khan), I can then take a mix of units from the Space Marine Crusade Army list, and then declare each one in turn to be either from Iron Hands or White Scars.

 

So far, easy enough. 

 

Question 1: What if I then want to include a second Iron Hands character – in this case, a Vigilator Consul? Is that possible? The wording 'each such character taken must be from a different Legion' seems to imply no, but it just struck me as a bit odd. My assumption is that the third HQ slot would have to be filled by a choice from a third Legion – Salamanders, for example.

 

Question 2: The 'choices from a specific Legion' bit is a bit vague. I'm assuming it means literally anything that is from another Legion (a Salamanders Tactical Squad); but it could mean Legion-specific choices (e.g. a Firedrake squad, or a Night Lord chainglaive). If the latter, assuming I have just Hibou Khan and Bion Henricos, what happens if I take a Legion Tactical Squad painted as Salamanders? Do I have to pick whether they 'count as' White Scars or Iron Hands (as those are the only HQs), do they lose the Legion-specific rules (i.e. lose the extra Salamander bonuses), or is it simply an illegal choice unless I also add a Salamander HQ choice?

 

Question 3: 'the force must contain a Praetor or Centurion (including any Consul types), or suitable HQ special character from the same Legion and each such character taken must be from a different Legion'. Just to clarify; I can take the same character type, right? For example, I could take both Hibou Khan and Bion Henricos as bare-bones Centurions, or both as Legion Champions?

 

Thanks for your help. I'm fairly sure I've understood things; but want to make sure the restrictions are correct, and how I can use the models I have together.

[WindstormSCR]

Shattered Legions are one of those things that are complex there will be questions no matter which ways they write it, but to give a basic summary:

 

The important thing to note is that each bullet point is a separate requirement

 

Requirement 1: you must have 2 separate units with different LA rules (these can be anything, even HQs that have different LA versions)

Requirement 2: restates requirement 1, the reference here to 'choices from a specific legion' is badly worded, but from all of the other rules passages in the shattered legions section appears to refer to legion-unique selections and wargear (Mor Deythan, Photonic Blades, Etc) and that each legion you wish to use unique elements from must have a Praetor, Centurion or consul representing them. The final clause in the requirement simply defines that each time you take an HQ choice, it must be from a different legion, no doubling up on HQs from the same legion.
Requirement 3: Gotta Paint your stuff!
 

Hopefully that helps untangle things a bit, book VI and VII are really leaving a lot to be desired in the word choices department, but any other interpretation of R2 simply makes the list entirely non-functional

[apologist]

Thanks for the clarifications, much appreciated. If you've got a few minutes to have a quick butcher's at the legality of my proposed list, I'd appreciate it. I've listed the Legion after each entry; you'll notice a couple with two listed. These are a visual thing – one or two will be painted in the other Legion's colours, but the unit will count as the first (bold) Legion. Alongside the odd units sizes, the intention is to make it look like the individuals have been forced to form makeshift units of suitable individuals:

 

HQ
Bion Henricos (Champion) – Iron Hands
Hibou Khan (Centurion) – White Scars
Captain Arrowsmith (Vigilator) – Iron Hands [this presumably is illegal?]

 

Troops
8 Reconnaissance Marines – Iron Hands/White Scars 
6 Reconnaissance Marines – Iron Hands
7 Reconnaissance Marines – Salamanders/Iron Hands [is this okay, or do I need a Salamanders HQ?]
9 Breacher Space Marines – Iron Hands

 

Elites
6 Destroyers – Iron Hands
5 Veteran Space Marines – White Scars
7 Immortals – Iron Hands [As a Legion special choice, I need at least one Iron Hands HQ, right?]
1 Rapier Carrier – Iron Hands

 

Fast Attack
5 Jetbike Sky Hunters – White Scars
6 Outriders – Iron Hands/White Scars
6 Seekers – Iron Hands

[Memento Of Prospero]

You could swap the second Iron Hands character for a Raven Guard or Salamander, representing more Isstvan stragglers.

 

A squad of Mor Deythan or Pyroclasts would be a neat addition, especially with the MD's headhunting role.

 

Does Henricos have any Salamanders/Raven Guard in his crew? I can't remember.

[WindstormSCR]

Looks ok aside from the third character. make him a different legion and it should be legal, probably salamanders to go with the sally recons. (which will also square you away if any events choose to interpret the rule as armywide instead of just legion specials)

[apologist]

Okay, thanks chaps. Looks like I'll need to make a few adjustments, or use some scenario special rules for the Dwell game. The concept for the army is based on Little Horus. Abnett's great at creating evocative but not limiting material, so I could pretty much include anything. However, in order to keep the army looking obviously inspired by the short, I want to be fairly conservative (but not obsessive) with the interpretation.

 

You could swap the second Iron Hands character for a Raven Guard or Salamander, representing more Isstvan stragglers.
A squad of Mor Deythan or Pyroclasts would be a neat addition, especially with the MD's headhunting role.
Does Henricos have any Salamanders/Raven Guard in his crew? I can't remember.

 

The Iron Hands and White Scars appear specifically, and there is a 'clade of Salamanders' mentioned as being associated with Henricos' force, though they don't appear directly in the story. There are no Raven Guard mentioned. That's not to say I can't include them, but with three Legions already present, it starts to look a bit patchwork.

 

I definitely want to include Hibou Khan and Bion Henricos as they're at the core of the story (someone's got to chop Little Horus' face off!) Background-wise, the latter is a lieutenant of Shadrak Meduson, and in command of the defence of Dwell. 

 

Looks ok aside from the third character. make him a different legion and it should be legal, probably salamanders to go with the sally recons. (which will also square you away if any events choose to interpret the rule as armywide instead of just legion specials)

 

The sticking point for me is that Arrowsmith is an Iron Hand; so if I can't have a second Iron Hand HQ, I'll probably not take a third HQ. Perhaps I could use the Shadrak Meduson rules for Bion Henricos – Henricos is mentioned to have a similarly exceptional power sword as Meduson, and it'd help ensure the presence of the Salamanders is definitely legal (owing to the Meduson rules).

 

If I did want to include Arrowsmith, can I create an allied detachment with him?