Dealing with Tzeentch Deamon Spam

[StrummersGhost]

Fellow commanders,

 

Any tips or advice on dealing with tzeentch daemons? I've got a good friend who is a Chaos player and recently he's been using a Tzeentch army. In my last game against him he used blobs of pink horrors and at least 20 screamers amongst some other nasty psychic units. I play Iron Hands and in my last list took a Skyhammer Annihilation Force and a CAD containing some tacs, and ironclad dread, a bike unit and a vindicator. He just overwhelmed me with the sheer weight of numbers (killing the pink horrors just created more blue horrors etc) and those screamers moved so fast they were on top of me before I knew it. Plus them having 2 wounds each :/

 

So...what do you guys take against this type of army? I've just kitbashed a Culexus Assassin which I plan to use in future but any advice would be appreciated! :)

[CrystalSeer]

It may seem weird, but really the most effective units against these kinds of lists are regular marines with bolters.

 

Its extremely easy to spend a ton of points on toys, but the numbers game is all about can you put out more damage than he can soak. That means cheap, reliable units to win the attrition game.

 

Also, whirlwinds in a suppression force are amazing for the cost.

[Itsacon]

Yup, horde armies weep sweet tears when I deploy my three Whirlwinds. Shred all the way baby, shred them all...

 

If you want to ramp it up to 11, bring Vindicators. Much more expensive, but they will really tear through most everything.

 

And bringing lots of Dark Angel tacticals with their souped up overwatch might make 'em think twice about assaulting.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

As a Tzeentch Daemon player myself,  there's one very important rule when facing any amount of Horrors:  DON'T!  shoot them!!

Horrors of all strokes no longer have access to malefic daemonolgy,  so the very worst aspect of the comically coined "Tzeentchian Clown Car" lists are no more.  (namely,  no more 3-4x 11 Pinkies endlessly making more of themselves/other gribblies!)

Instead,  always,  always ALWAYS! hit the Horrors in the assault phase.  Pinkies can't fight worth a damn,  (even though I love to run a 'StrD6' locus Tzherald w/spawn-making sword!),  and any that go "poof!" from Instability,  WILL NOT! generate more Blues/Brims via the 'Split' rule.

This leaves all your shooting free to go after the important bits such as the Tzheralds/LoC/DP's who make the army work,  Screamers/Grinders who do the heavy damage lifting,  etc...

 

Remember that your opponent wants you to waste your shooting on the Horrors.

Even Tacticals are fully capable of beating Horrors to a pulp in assaults.  (just watch out for the Locus of Creation - at that point,  the only counter is to single out the Tzherald himself!!)

 

Also,  bring your template weapons...  *cough*flamers*cough*  don't bother with Grav,  because outside of DP's/'Thirsters,  the only way for daemons to ever gain a 3+ save is through the random gift generation.

Instead,  flamers of all varities,  Whirldwinds,  heavy bolters,  missile launchers,  ass-cans,  deathwind launchers,  etc... will make a nice mess of the daemonic host.  Vindicators are mediocre honestly,  because Tzeentchian invulns especially are annoying to deal with thanks to the innate re-roll 1's,  and the large blast still won't cover many of the multi-wound models simply due to their size.

Again,  I usually jump for joy when I see pts sunk into S8+/large blast ordinance that's costing my opponent 120-150+ pts to field!

 

Now,  if he's running a Screamerstar,  then all you can really do is instead just play to the mission,  OR,  bring someone like Coteaze? who gives you the re-roll bonus for 1st turn.

As long as you go first,  just use your Drop Pods to alpha strike the ever-living gak outa the Screamerstar before it can put all its augments up.

Otherwise,  run away from/throw chaff at it,  and try to out-score on the mission objectives.  (boring as feth game mind you...)

On the whole,  alpha-strike w/Drop Pods is generally the best way to deal with Tzeentch,  as you can avoid the chaff (ie:  the Horrors!),  and just get strait at the units hiding the all-important Tzheralds who make the whole army actually work!

 

I'm honestly not up to date on what the Culexus does now,  but in a friendly game,  you might not really want to bring one as pretty much everything Tzeentch daemons do is psychic in nature.  (now if he's being a tool & running a Screamerstar,  by all means,  shove that Culexus down his throat for being a fun-killing 'uber Troll!:P )

 

Hope this helps,

Cheers!

[Laughingman]

Might be worth looking into the new Sisters of silence detachment, they now have Rhinos (with the Psychic Abomination rule)  to get them across the board. In addition they can take squads of 10 sisters with flamers.

[RaEndymion]

Might be worth looking into the new Sisters of silence detachment, they now have Rhinos (with the Psychic Abomination rule)  to get them across the board. In addition they can take squads of 10 sisters with flamers.

 

I agree, this new formation devastates psykers. If you max it out and get the full boosted psychic abomination radius then you can cover pretty much the whole board with anti-psyker goodness. Horrors aren't great when they can't use powers. Sure they split down, but as you said, some flamer sisters make short work of blobs of them, and Vigilators (Swords) will wreck pretty much any Tzeench daemon in combat.

[StrummersGhost]

As a Tzeentch Daemon player myself, there's one very important rule when facing any amount of Horrors: DON'T! shoot them!!

Horrors of all strokes no longer have access to malefic daemonolgy, so the very worst aspect of the comically coined "Tzeentchian Clown Car" lists are no more. (namely, no more 3-4x 11 Pinkies endlessly making more of themselves/other gribblies!)

Instead, always, always ALWAYS! hit the Horrors in the assault phase. Pinkies can't fight worth a damn, (even though I love to run a 'StrD6' locus Tzherald w/spawn-making sword!), and any that go "poof!" from Instability, WILL NOT! generate more Blues/Brims via the 'Split' rule.

This leaves all your shooting free to go after the important bits such as the Tzheralds/LoC/DP's who make the army work, Screamers/Grinders who do the heavy damage lifting, etc...

 

Remember that your opponent wants you to waste your shooting on the Horrors.

Even Tacticals are fully capable of beating Horrors to a pulp in assaults. (just watch out for the Locus of Creation - at that point, the only counter is to single out the Tzherald himself!!)

 

Also, bring your template weapons... *cough*flamers*cough* don't bother with Grav, because outside of DP's/'Thirsters, the only way for daemons to ever gain a 3+ save is through the random gift generation.

Instead, flamers of all varities, Whirldwinds, heavy bolters, missile launchers, ass-cans, deathwind launchers, etc... will make a nice mess of the daemonic host. Vindicators are mediocre honestly, because Tzeentchian invulns especially are annoying to deal with thanks to the innate re-roll 1's, and the large blast still won't cover many of the multi-wound models simply due to their size.

Again, I usually jump for joy when I see pts sunk into S8+/large blast ordinance that's costing my opponent 120-150+ pts to field!

 

Now, if he's running a Screamerstar, then all you can really do is instead just play to the mission, OR, bring someone like Coteaze? who gives you the re-roll bonus for 1st turn.

As long as you go first, just use your Drop Pods to alpha strike the ever-living gak outa the Screamerstar before it can put all its augments up.

Otherwise, run away from/throw chaff at it, and try to out-score on the mission objectives. (boring as feth game mind you...)

On the whole, alpha-strike w/Drop Pods is generally the best way to deal with Tzeentch, as you can avoid the chaff (ie: the Horrors!), and just get strait at the units hiding the all-important Tzheralds who make the whole army actually work!

 

I'm honestly not up to date on what the Culexus does now, but in a friendly game, you might not really want to bring one as pretty much everything Tzeentch daemons do is psychic in nature. (now if he's being a tool & running a Screamerstar, by all means, shove that Culexus down his throat for being a fun-killing 'uber Troll!:P )

 

Hope this helps,

Cheers!

Forgive me for not replying to this sooner! Your advice here is extremely helpful! I took it on board, however I did still lose haha. My opponent took the screamerstar which was really challenging to cope with! I couldn't get first turn either and I really felt the impact of that. I actually took a Culexus however he was hiding in cover in ruins waiting to strike... Only for 2 screamers to turbo boost over him. I can't recall the name of the rule but basically he was annihilated by this, being auto hit with an ignores cover attack and unceremoniously scraped off of the battlefield.

 

Now that we're in 8th ed I'm hoping things will be easier for me haha.

[Claws and Effect]

Was the attack that killed your Culexus a targeted psychic attack?

 

Because those aren't supposed to be able to target the Culexus.

[StrummersGhost]

Was the attack that killed your Culexus a targeted psychic attack?

 

Because those aren't supposed to be able to target the Culexus.

No it was a special rule attack called Slashing Attack. Basically any screamer that turbo boosted over an unengaged model causes d3 S4 AP 0 hits per screamer. He moved either 2 or 3 screamers over the Culexus and got alot of hits. I failed the saves :(