Sons of Horus concepts (new to 30k)

[Indefragable]

I have played 40k for a few years now, but with the approach of Angelus, I am getting interested in 30k.

 

Long-story-short, I am looking to test the waters with a Sons of Horus army for a few reasons:

 

• Sons of Horus and Blood Angels have a nice rivalry/epicness to the matchups
• SoH and BA both focus on Reserves and creative use of mobility and melee. SoH would be great practice in that regard
• Horus: he's a boss, and his model will make an epic counterpart the eventual epic Sanguinius model
• Same as above, but with Justarean and potentially Reaver squads
• I love the whole "fight unfair" vibe to the SoH rules....dogpiling enemy units for free melee hits at I1 and so forth.

 

As such I have a couple of objectives with my lists:

 

• Focus on Jump Packs, and/or aerial fire support (Storm Eagles/Fire Raptors?) and all-around mobility
• Horus must have room in the list. Half the draw to 30k for me is the League of Primarchs fighting club.
• Going off of the above, a unit of Justarean would be preferable to accompany Horus
• Milking Merciless Fighters and Death Dealers as much as possible

 

Questions:

Black Reaving vs Long March vs Angel's Wrath

I know Black Reaving is sort of "so 2 weeks ago" based on comments. The Long March sounds.....interesting....but to me does not seem all that exciting.

 

HQ:

Master of Signal is required for Black Reaving. What's the best way to use this guy?

 

TROOPS:

Legion Tacticals vs Reavers vs Assault Troops

 

Tacticals seem the "safe way" to go, and 20 man units seem (noob glasses?) like they could survive long enough to capture objectives and make use of Merciless FIghters. I like the idea of big units moving up, unloading a :cuss load of fire, and then charging the next turn with the additional CCW attack. However, Death Dealers does not combine with Fury of the Legion, right?

 

Reavers sound like a lot of fun. But again, based on cursory research they seem to have fallen out of favor. TBH, I really like the idea of shooty jump pack troops. I have had great success in 40k with Death Company w/ jump packs and bolters: it catches opponents off guard to have slippery units like that. But digging in, it seems like Reavers max-range weapon would be the Volkite which is 15"....so kind of....what's the point of keeping them shooty?

From a cool factor, Reavers just seem to embody the Sons of Horus so much: a fast unit unleashing +1BS Precision Shot/Strikes,  getting all sorts of extra attacks (Bulky + outnumbering enemy unit).

 

And if going with as many jump troops as possible...then why not just keep it cheap and go Assault Marines? To my eye, ASM don't get as many weapon options as Reavers, and obviously lose the additional attack.

 

 

 

Transports:

Drop Pods vs Rhinos

Drop Pods do what Drop Pods do. Especially with the double buffs from SoH Special Rules + Horus being Horus, it seems like having mostly Drop Pods could set up for some serious Beta strike potential. But in that case, would Legion Support Squads with Meltas be the way to go and just ignore the whole Merciless Fighters thing? In that case, Long March seems interesting since the Drop Pod units would re-roll 1's To Hit in the first turn. That's some precision dakka there!

 

And Rhinos are Rhinos.

 

ELITES:

Apothecaries: seems taking 2-3 of them, strapping them into Jump Packs and having them hang out with Reaver squads could be the way to go. Yes?

 

Justarean: all sorts of questions here:

1) Should they be taken as Elites, Troops, or a bodyguard for Horus? Does it matter? It just seems that including him opens up all sorts of options. I'm not sure if any of it matters (for example, do they get psuedo-OBSEC if taken as Troops?

2) Multi-Meltas: these seem awesome! Take 2 on a squad of 10 and you have Deep Striking 12" Melta at BS5! That being said, I know that Armored Ceramite is the new black in 30k....so not worth it?

3) in a squad of 10, I am thinking 2x MM, 3x Chainfists, 1 or 2x lightning claws, and the rest power weapons. This way there's plenty of dudes striking again at I1, while having enough S8 AP2 stuff bring things down as well.

 

FAST ATTACK:

Storm Eagles? to be honest, not entirely sure what to use here

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:
I know I have to have less of these than FS. This seems like the place where the hardy units  that ride out T1 until Horus arrives should live. But big vehicles would only draw even more firepower T1....so I'm not sure what to do.

 

LoW:

Horus: obviously he's a beast...but for those who have used him, are there any things in particular to watch out for? Titans and Russ? Are there any things that are not quite as shiny as they first appear?

 

Overall:

Horus + Justarean are the hammer unit that crushes everything it touches. However, that's like 1000pts....HALF of a 2000pt army potentially. So the rest of the army needs to be able to pull it's weight/survive long enough to let them do their thing. I am also a bit lost for what to do for reliable anti-tank. In the local 30k meta, Land Raiders especially seem to be popular ("cause they are actually good in 30k" I'm told)...and most my list concepts are focused on bullying infantry. Especially with Armored Ceramite everywhere, what're the reliable ways to take down armor? I know the Ultramarines player at my club loves to spam Terminators with missile launchers for that reason: "massed S8 shooting is the way to go in 30k." Would you agree?

 

I know this post is all over the place, so I appreciate you hearing me out and providing advice.

 

Thanks!

 

-Indy

[Varyn]

Lupercal! always good to see another Sons of Horus enthusiast :)

 

There's a lot of stuff to address, I'll try and cover a few points and I'll add more later on, based on my experience of playing Sons of Horus

 

Reavers:

I currently use 1-2 units of reavers in every list. I run one 15 man unit with chainaxes, 2, power fists, 2 power swords, apothecary and a praetor with a jump pack. I find the unit is very effective once it gets into assault, merciless fighter is great on jump pack units. The unit works very well with The Long March; getting fleet in no man's land is fantastic.

 

My other unit is a 10 man with volkites and jump packs, I always outflank these guys, so they can move on 12" and ideally shoot something within 12" to gain the benefit from death dealers.

 

(On a side note, I use Maloghurst so that my reavers & veteran tacticals can be my compulsory troop choices.)

 

Justaerin:

I run a unit of 5 in an anvillus pod, 5 combi plasma, chainfist, 2 power fist, 2 lightning claw. The BS5 plasma in rapid fire with death dealers is absolutely brutal, plus the drop pod means you can get them right where you need them. I personally don't use multimelta's as anything that's worth shooting usually has armoured ceramite, your chainfists will do much better at opening up armour.

 

Bear in mind that terminators don't get deep strike as standard. Also, as a rule of thumb; if you can take a unit as troops or elite, then take it as troops. You're elite slots will have more competition than your troops slots.

 

I don't use Horus in my lists, but he's a very good alround primarch; a good force multiplier and great in assault, if you plan on using him I would definitely take him with Justaerin. (I think Russ is so overpowered that he'll kill any primarch!)

 

Rites of War:

I have only really used Pride of the Legion and The Long March. My issue with The Reaving is that taking 3 squads of kitted out reavers gets very expensive, plus the master of signals tax means you have a lot of points tied up before you can make any other army "choices".

 

 

Anti armour:

I'll give you a few suggestions, there are loads of choices so this is absolutely not an exhaustive list!

 

Elites:

quad launchers with shatter shells

mortis contemptor with TL lascannons

machine killer vets with melta guns and combi meltas (in a pod, rhino or even a landraider!)

 

Fast attack

landspeeders with multimelta and grav

primaris lightning with kraken penetrator missiles

 

Heavy support:

sicaran venator

heavy support squads with missile launchers/lascannons (great in The Long March as they're relentless in your deployment zone) 

deredeo dreadnought with anvillus autocannons

 

 

In general, I wouldn't recommend using Horus in a game under 2500 points, he just takes up too many points, which unbalanced your list. 

 

 

Hopefully that helps a bit. The best thing I would recommend would be to write a list and post it up, there are some great guys on here who'll be happy to give you lots of useful advice on your list.

 

Good luck!

[Indefragable]

Lupercal! always good to see another Sons of Horus enthusiast :)

 

There's a lot of stuff to address, I'll try and cover a few points and I'll add more later on, based on my experience of playing Sons of Horus

 

Reavers:

I currently use 1-2 units of reavers in every list. I run one 15 man unit with chainaxes, 2, power fists, 2 power swords, apothecary and a praetor with a jump pack. I find the unit is very effective once it gets into assault, merciless fighter is great on jump pack units. The unit works very well with The Long March; getting fleet in no man's land is fantastic.

 

My other unit is a 10 man with volkites and jump packs, I always outflank these guys, so they can move on 12" and ideally shoot something within 12" to gain the benefit from death dealers.

 

(On a side note, I use Maloghurst so that my reavers & veteran tacticals can be my compulsory troop choices.)

 

Justaerin:

I run a unit of 5 in an anvillus pod, 5 combi plasma, chainfist, 2 power fist, 2 lightning claw. The BS5 plasma in rapid fire with death dealers is absolutely brutal, plus the drop pod means you can get them right where you need them. I personally don't use multimelta's as anything that's worth shooting usually has armoured ceramite, your chainfists will do much better at opening up armour.

 

Bear in mind that terminators don't get deep strike as standard. Also, as a rule of thumb; if you can take a unit as troops or elite, then take it as troops. You're elite slots will have more competition than your troops slots.

 

I don't use Horus in my lists, but he's a very good alround primarch; a good force multiplier and great in assault, if you plan on using him I would definitely take him with Justaerin. (I think Russ is so overpowered that he'll kill any primarch!)

 

Rites of War:

I have only really used Pride of the Legion and The Long March. My issue with The Reaving is that taking 3 squads of kitted out reavers gets very expensive, plus the master of signals tax means you have a lot of points tied up before you can make any other army "choices".

 

 

Anti armour:

I'll give you a few suggestions, there are loads of choices so this is absolutely not an exhaustive list!

 

Elites:

quad launchers with shatter shells

mortis contemptor with TL lascannons

machine killer vets with melta guns and combi meltas (in a pod, rhino or even a landraider!)

 

Fast attack

landspeeders with multimelta and grav

primaris lightning with kraken penetrator missiles

 

Heavy support:

sicaran venator

heavy support squads with missile launchers/lascannons (great in The Long March as they're relentless in your deployment zone)

deredeo dreadnought with anvillus autocannons

 

 

In general, I wouldn't recommend using Horus in a game under 2500 points, he just takes up too many points, which unbalanced your list.

 

 

Hopefully that helps a bit. The best thing I would recommend would be to write a list and post it up, there are some great guys on here who'll be happy to give you lots of useful advice on your list.

 

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. I haven't posted a list yet because I'm still wrapping my head around the differences between 40k and 30k.

 

I will soon!

[Indefragable]

Also, this is some of the variety of lists I will be facing (as an example, they may be scaled up/down)

 

Thousand Sons

Hidden Content

 

2500 points - Thousand Sons Detachment - Rite of War: Guard of the Crimson King

Rite of War Benefits:
Astral Warfare - When generating Warp Charges, roll 2D6 and select the highest
Wreathed in Lighting, they Rend the Veil - Terminators and Independent Characters (including Magnus) may Deep Strike. When they arrive, they gain Fear and rerolling Invulnerable saves of 1 until the end of their next turn.
Initiates of the Scarab - Sekhmet Cabals must be selected as Compulsory Troops and may also be taken as Optional Troops.
Bidding of the Crimson King - Magnus the Red may be selected as a Compulsory HQ choice and does not count as a Lord of War.

Rite of War Restrictions:
- Must have Magnus the Red, Azek Ahriman, or an ML3 Praetor as Warlord
- May not have more Vehicles than units with Legiones Astartes (Thousand Sons)
- May not take Allied Detachments of Fortifications

HQ
Azek Ahriman (Mastery Level 4, Artificer Armor, Master-Crafted Force Axe, Master-Crafted Bolt Pistol w/ Asphyx Shells, Iron Halo, Arcane Litanies, Frag & Krak Grenades, Cult of the Corvidae)
Legion Chaplain (Mastery Level 1, Artificer Armor, Force Maul, Thunder Hammer, Cult of the Pavoni)

Troops
Sekhmet Terminator Cabal (10x Sekhmet Terminators, Mastery Level 2, Tartaros Armor, 6x Force Axes, 4x Force Swords, Combi-Bolters w/ Asphyx Shells, Cult of the Corvidae)
Sekhmet Terminator Cabal (5x Sekhmet Terminators, Mastery Level 2, Cataphractii Armor, 5x Force Axes, 5x Combi-Meltas w/ Asphyx Shells, Cult of the Corvidae)
Sekhmet Terminator Cabal (5x Sekhmet Terminators, Mastery Level 2, Cataphractii Armor, 5x Lightning Claw/Chainfists, Combi-Bolters w/ Asphyx Shells, Cult of the Raptora)
Sekhmet Terminator Cabal (5x Sekhmet Terminators, Mastery Level 2, Cataphractii Armor, 5x Lightning Claw/Chainfists, Combi-Bolters w/ Asphyx Shells, Cult of the Raptora)

Elites
Khenetai Occult Blade Cabal (9x Khenetai Blades, Mastery Level 1, Power Armor, Force Swords (2 each), Bolt Pistols, Sergeant w/ Artificer Armor & Melta Bombs, Cult of the Pavoni)
Osiron Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (3x Osiron Contemptor Dreadnoughts, Mastery Level 1, 2x Twin-Linked Lascannons, 1x Kheres Autocannon)

Heavy Support
Land Raider Phobos (2x Twin-Linked Lascannons, 1x Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter, Dozer Blades, Extra Armor, Armored Ceramite

 

 

 

Salamanders

Hidden Content

2000 pts

 

Covenant of Fire ROW

HQ
Legion Praetor - Cataphractii Terminator Armour, MC Chainfist, Digital Lasers, Dragonscale Storm Shield, Mantle of the Elder Drake
Firedrake Terminator Squad - 2x Chainfist, 2x Thunder Hammer, 3x Dragonscale Storm Shield, Heavy Flamer
Firedrake Master - Dragonscale Storm Shield, Master-crafted Thunder Hammer
Legion Spartan Assault Tank - Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield, Pintle MultiMelta, Quad Lascannon Sponsons, Twin-linked Heavy Flamer

Troops
2x Legion Tactical Squad
9x Tactical Marines
Tactical Sergeant, Artificer Armour, Artificer Weapons, Power Axe, Melta Bombs
Rhino - pintle multimelta

Pyroclast Squad
9x Pyroclast
Pyroclast Warden - Artificer Weapons, Power Fist
Land Raider Phobos - Armoured Ceramite, Extra Armour, Heavy Flamer, Pintle MultiMelta

Fast Attack
Legion Javelin Attack Speeder
2x Hunter-killer Missile, Multi-melta, Twin-linked Cyclone missile launcher

 

 

1000 pts Iron Hands

Hidden Content

 

HQ - Castrman Orth (Tank Commander) Warlord Trait gives him +1 Damage Table for Ramming
Troops - 10 Man Tactical Squad (Naked)
Troops - 10 Man Tactical Squad (Naked)
Elites - Quad Mortar Rapier Battery
Elites - Quad Mortar Rapier Battery
Heavy Support - 2 Vehicle Predator Squad (2 sets of Lascannon Sponsons, Predator Autocannons are 4 shots instead of 40k's 2 shots)
Heavy Support - Whirlwind Scorpius (S8 AP3, Heavy D3 (+1 if stationary), Small Blast)
Heavy Support - Relic Sicaran Battle Tank (Lascannon Sponsons)

 

[Marshal Loss]

Welcome to the 16th!

 

Rites of War

 

 

 

Black Reaving is too restrictive to be useful. Most of its benefits (Reavers as Troops, Justaerin Deep Striking) can be obtained elsewhere, the restrictions are substantial (Masters of Signal don't suit a close range army and if you're looking for a teleporter homer of some description a Damocles is better, and a single Heavy Support slot is pretty crappy). Getting the 'Rage' bonus is also quite hard, as you can't combo charge in the same turn in order to get the bonus. Fluffy with an awesome description and name, but not particularly useful.

 

The Long March is brilliant, mainly because it doesn't do much - you get a few bonuses with essentially no restrictions. This enables you to build an army basically any way you want and not worry too much about what list you're taking, whereas if you're playing Black Reaving you really have to put a great deal of thought of how you're going to make those restrictions worth it. It works with a gunline, an alpha strike army or an assault army.

 

Angels Wrath isn't much to write home about. Storm Eagles aren't that good. I'd either take Drop Assault Vanguard or Orbital Assault instead.

 

 

 

Master of Signal

 

 

 

Not sure if there is a really good way to use this guy. He's pretty expensive to give +1 BS to a unit, and you don't really want him close to the front lines where you'll already likely be getting +1 BS from Death Dealers. Putting him with a heavy support unit is probably the way to go. Others might have found a good use for him, but I find him useless.

 

 

 

Troops

 

 

 

The Tactica forum has a lot of discussion on the merits of Reavers. If you're looking to get the most out of Death Dealers, which is out most powerful rule, then they are superior to Tacticals and Assault Marines as you can load them up with combi-weapons, but Veterans probably do that job better.

 

Assault Marines are a respectable choice now that they're so cheap. Reavers cost a lot more and can't go as large, but get an extra attack each, precision strikes, cheap chainaxes and outflank - some significant bonuses. I haven't done the maths to compare the two when you're equipping them as assault marines, they used to be superior but the reduction has shaken that up significantly.

 

Avoid taking Tacticals where possible. Dirt cheap, but not as specialised as our other units, they're best as objective grabbing units, but a huge mob of Despoilers can be alright when used in an assault transport. Problem is there that you're spending a lot of points on a transport for a unit that isn't particularly brave nor particularly powerful, although rolling lots of die is fun.

 

 

 

Justaerin

 

 

 

Do not take Lightning Claws on Justaerin, it's not worth it. Also don't take multi-meltas, as they don't get +1 BS when firing it, you only get +1 BS on rapid fire/assault/pistol weapons. Also use fists, because if you come up against another elite Terminator unit, you're going to lose your advantage if after the first turn you're wounding on 3's and they wound on 2's with fists and ID your 2 wound terminators. When you spend that many points on a super elite unit, you want them to be able to take on the best of the best and win. Fists let them do that, claws and power weapons don't without a lot of help.

 

Best possible use for them is with Horus - pin point accuracy deep striking BS5 plasma or melta with a Primarch is utterly terrifying. If you do this, give them a Primus Medicae, even if the unit isn't a full 12 man strong. They're also quite powerful in a Dreadclaw or a Kharybdis if you're not running our Primarch. It's hard to go wrong with Justaerin, just make sure you are getting the most out of Death Dealers, and don't worry too much about Merciless Fighters on them - S9 fists on the charge more than makes up for it.

 

 

 

Drop Pods vs Rhinos

 

 

 

Actually not much to say here. If you're new to 30k, you wouldn't know that we can't take drop pods on any unit in a Sons of Horus army unless we play Orbital Assault. You can take Dreadclaws, which are amazing and definitely have a place as an assault transport superior to Land Raiders, but they're expensive to spam. Reavers/Veterans/Justaerin in these are worth the points though, but if you're looking for just a general transport, a Rhino is still a good choice, particularly if you outflank with Reavers!

 

 

 

Apothecaries are good, yes, take them. The bigger the unit they're attached to, the better.

 

Storm Eagles are expensive and not very good. A Kharybdis is superior, although lacking in firepower. I own two and they're cool models though.

 

Best anti-tank would be Primaris Lightning Strike Fighters with Krakens, Vindicator Laser Destroyers, Machine Killer Vets in a pod/claw and Graviton Rapiers. Honourable mention to Leviathan Dreadnoughts here.

 

I agree with Varyn in that Horus starts being better at 2500+. It's good to drop down other threats with him, Leviathan(s) for example, that can take out the few things that can threaten him and his bodyguard when they land (Medusa Batteries etc). A Warhound with 2x turbo laser will flat out end Horus and his unit on the turn they deep strike if allowed to shoot at him.

 

As for those specific lists

Thousand Sons: Try to end him on turn 1. He will have very little on the board, so drop down some units and scare the living crap out of him. Ignore his Terminators on the turn they deep strike and concentrate on getting into a position where you can kill them next turn/end the units already on the board. Perhaps keep some Justaerin with fists to ID his Sekhmet, get the charge off on the ones that aren't Raptora and your WS5 will give you the advantage.

 

Salamanders: Easy list to beat. Cripple that Spartan and he has nothing that can really threaten you. Use Graviton Rapiers or the like to kill their transport before the Drakes gets into combat, and then just pull his army apart.

 

Iron Hands: Don't try to out shoot him, he'll win. kill his Tacticals and you can't lose on objectives. It's a pretty nasty 1000 points list that won't be easy to beat.

 

Hope this helps!

[Indefragable]

Quick question:

 

How the heck do you get Drop Pods? 

[Varyn]

- Orbital assault Rite of War.

 

- Buy anvillus drop pods as fast attack choices

 

- A few units can take them as dedicated transports (justaerin, reavers)

[Indefragable]

- Orbital assault Rite of War.

 

- Buy anvillus drop pods as fast attack choices

 

- A few units can take them as dedicated transports (justaerin, reavers)

 

Ah gotcha. I want't to make sure I was not missing something obvious.

[Indefragable]

Hidden Content

 

2490pts

 

Rite of War:

The Long March

 

HQ:

Maloghurst the Twisted

Bodyguard Legion Command Squad

--Legion Standard Bearer

--Chosen x 3

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod

 

TROOPS:
Veteran Tactical Marines x 5

--Machine Killers

--Melta gun

--Combi-Melta x 2

--Sgt. Combi-Melta

--Sgt. Artificer Armor

 

Veteran Tactical Marines x 5

--Machine Killers

--Melta gun

--Combi-Melta x 2

--Sgt. Combi-Melta

--Sgt. Artificer Armor

 

Reavers x 10

--Jump Packs

--Volkite Chargers x 10

 

ELITES:

Justaeran Terminators x 5

--Combi-Plasma x 5

--Chainfist x 2

--Powerfist x 3

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod

 

Justaeran Terminators x 5

--Combi-Plasma x 5

--Chainfist x 2

--Powerfist x 3

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod

 

 

FAST ATTACK:

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod

 

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Legion Heavy Support Marine x 5

--Lascannon x 5

 

Legion Heavy Support Marine x 5

--Missile Launcher x 5

 

 

Thoughts:

So the above is my attempt to make this thing work. I am hoping to have 2x lists: one with Horus for bigger games and the other without.

 

I think I tried too hard to capitalize on the benefits of the Long March (re-roll 1's To Hit in shooting Turn 1).

 

Anyways, the idea is that the Veterans or Justaeran land T1, lighting things up while the Reavers jump up the board. The Heavy Support Squads get Relentless in my deployment zone, so they can ideally position themselves for some excellient T1 shooting (re-rolling 1's).

 

That's the idea, anyways. Just seems somewhat brittle overall. If nothing but the Justaerin and Heavy Support Squads are on the board T1....they will probably get shot to ribbons, right?

 

I am struggling a bit with the Long March because to me, it screams spam T1 shooting and/or get up in their face immediately ( <12" +1BS re-rolling 1's To Hit in Shooting T1? WOW!)

[Varyn]

The list is a good starting point, I'll offer some feedback. (these are just my suggestions)

 

- Maloghurst with the chosen isn't a very "punchy" unit; he only has a 3+ save, his melee weapon is only AP3 and he can't sweep. Join him to the lascannon squad instead

- The machine killer vets work better in larger units with more combi-melta's; take 10 with 2 melta guns and 6 combi meltas, in an anvillus

- I'd recommend taking artificer armour and melta bombs on your reaver chieftan, I'd also consider taking a couple of plasma/melta guns too, you'll be in rapid fire/melta gun range most of the time

- You can drop 1 of the pods, so you've got 3 (2 justaerin, 1 machine killer vets)

- I'd also take a unit of 10 marksmen vets, with 6 combi-plasma and 2 plasma guns, artificer armour in a rhino with multimelta (flamers/combi-flamers are also effective) you can outflank this unit along with the reavers

- Remember that you don't have to get the units out of the anvillus on the turn it arrives, they can sit inside and assault out on turn 2 (justaerin, not the vets!)

- Once the anvillus pods are empty you can fly them over the enemy units, particularly tanks/walkers, and damage them with heat blast

 

That should put you on about 2500 points