the Fallen and their resources...?

[Azoriel]

I agree on all accounts.  I was thinking more along the lines of what they could steal - which, as pointed out, could be just about anything anyone else has.  No need for extensive maintenence either; if something breaks down on you, just steal another one later.  

[MoK]

Well I'm using CSM Terminators with Black Legion to represent Fallen Terminator squads which I am calling the Blackwing. Specifically I'm using Cataphractti armour to match up to my MKIII and MKIV Armoured Fallen.

[Chaplain Raeven]

 

So basically either Rhinos are also transferred through space and time with their Fallen crew, or the Fallen have to actually kill a marine squad (or a Sisters of Battle squad) to get their hands on one. Or they can go to a used Chaos Rhino dealership and buy a second hand 10000 yeard old, Chaos Rhino from a Chaos lord that only drove the Rhino on Sundays to a Chaos Cult and random human sacrifice.

Love that idea!

Rhino for sale:

1237 miles on the clock, only 10000 years one, one careful Chaos Lord owner!

 

Still laughing now!

 

The Fallen get their gear from the 'Emperor's Bay of Commerce", E-Bay in short. Accessible via the Worlds Wide Warpnet, or Interwarpnet.

 

"For sale: Rhino, recently build (M35) and in almost new condition, It was used for only 2 campaigns! 

- Colour: Blood Angel Red

- Slight damage (Melta-hole) on the drivers hatch. Bloodstain is barely visible on the red chassis.

- Prove of identity not required"

 

" For sale: Jump packs. Dropped only once."

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Rhino's common as sand? Do you see Rhinos in Astra Militarum? Do you see Rhinos in Adeptus Arbirtres? Do you read a lot about PDF having Rhinos?

If all of the above were true to you then yes, they would be common as sand.

But there are actually pieces of fluff of battles fought to recover Rhino chassis, so I guess they aren't that common and the few there are, are precious to Marine Chapters.

So basically either Rhinos are also transferred through space and time with their Fallen crew, or the Fallen have to actually kill a marine squad (or a Sisters of Battle squad) to get their hands on one. Or they can go to a used Chaos Rhino dealership and buy a second hand 10000 yeard old, Chaos Rhino from a Chaos lord that only drove the Rhino on Sundays to a Chaos Cult and random human sacrifice.

You might want to dial that snark down a bit and tell me what do you think this is then:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/3/3d/Zombie_last_stand.jpg

Because well, yes, arbites, sisters of battle, and inquisitorial forces, all use rhinos, despite outweighing marines by many orders of magnitude in numbers. So do IG and PDF forces from worlds that produce rhinos, hell, you can even field one such force on tabletop in the form of Tyrant's legion from FW Badab War books.

In fact, can you please provide citation for your assertion rhinos are somehow so valuable when Badab fluff plainly states civilian factories on Babab One produced enough to not only outfit 4000 strong Astral Claws easily, not only hand them out in large numbers to Tyrant's legion elite units, but enough to also hand out razorback and rhino fleets to allied chapters like candy. Hell, they are so common in his armies that two Badab scenarios feature rhinos packed with explosives and poison gas being driven by servitors into attacking loyalist ranks as kamikaze vehicles! Seeing Badab was, before Huron's takeover, real fringe backwater, truly an example of priceless, hard to obtain relic, eh?

Also, I might point out that mercenary bands of regular humans in Tyrant's legion (fluffed as squads of pirates from Maeltrom) have access to vehicles, so yeah, it's totally inconceivable for mercenary astartes to have one, not to mention that I have no idea why you cherry-picked rhino from my post when I said that giving them access to civilian goliaths, you know, the vehicle that even underground bands acting in secret can procure, would be cool. Or a chimera, something military that is even more common than rhino. Anything at all would be nice, sadly current GW rule writing team hates taking risks and always picks easiest, laziest route...

I'll see your Converted Arbitres Rhino and raise you a deodorant bottle tank.

Yes, arbitres do have Rhinos, but that doesn't make them common as sand.

As Index Astartes Rhino states:

As knowledge of their construction faded from memory, attrition took its toll on the number of Rhinos throughout the galaxy. The rituals of maintenance became debased as the centuries passed and knowledge of the exact workings of the Rhinos passed into myth. Among those who retained the priceless knowledge of their construction were the Techmarines of the newly created Legiones Astartes and Tech Priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus, who established strict guidelines regarding the construction, consecration and maintenance of these valuable vehicles- Whether built in the Martian weapon-forges of the Adeptus Mechanicus or the fortress monasteries of the Space Marines, the builders of these holy vehicles know that the purity and spiritual welfare of the Rhino is as important as the skill of the artificers who construct it.

Besides the Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes only a select few imperial organisations now have access to Rhinos, the priceless technology involved in their construction and maintenance is too valuable to be entrusted to any but the most loyal and steadfast bodies of warriors. The Adeptus Sororitas and Adeptus Arbites have a number of Rhinos and they maintain a body of those sanctified and pure of heart to care for them.

Should a Rhino ever be lost in battle it is an occasion of great mourning for those entrusted with its care, and furious battles have been fought to reclaim the burned-out carcass of a Rhino simply to lay its spirit to rest. After the Battle of Naeuysk Gorge, fourteen Rhinos of the Imperial Fists had to be abandoned when traitor Space Marines from the Night Lords Legion ambushed the advancing column as it crossed the only bridge across the gorge. The attackers destroyed the lead and rear vehicles, trapping the rest in place. Previously placed demolition charges blew out the bridge supports and every Rhino on the bridge plummeted nearly a thousand metres into the gorge. The survivors were harried back to their base and the name of the Night Lords placed forever on the Chapter's Litany of Hatred. The following morning a daring mission involving an airborne assault across the gorge pushed back the Night Lords from the hills on the opposite side and allowed the Imperial Fists to bring up salvage units to start the recovery of their shattered vehicles and the bodies of their comrades. The battle in the hills raged for over thirty hours, with Imperial Fists' casualties amounting to almost 85% as they fought to give their Techmarines enough time to retrieve the fallen Rhinos.

So, really, rhinos are not common as sand even if the Astral Claws churned enough to equip themselves and other Chapters. Probably they took some shorctcuts and didn't do all the blessings necessary, explaining why they were defeated... Cheap Rhinos not properly consecrated with oild, ungents and chants.

But , the point (that you seem to have missed) is that is actually hard to have a Rhino and to maintain it properly, so in a Fallen warband it isn't expected to have many of them. Unless they are rich and A+++ E-bay traders, that is. ;)

[jlmb_123]

If they were going to steal anything like the stuff above, I'd hope they'd nick an Arbites paddy wagon, still one of my favourite vehicle conversions ever:

 

 

I can't see why the Fallen wouldn't have a vehicle at the time of a battle: they'd purloin it from somewhere. They'd obviously not have the same one from the end of the Heresy up until the present day but it seems equally ridiculous that if, for example, they needed to steal weapons, attack a political figure or something else on a planet with remote settlements that they'd land on a planet then walk everywhere.

 

The Fallen - connotations of fallen heroes and legends of a bygone time aside - strike me as the ultimate guerillas whose main mission is their own survival, but writ large in that they will get involved in local conflicts, large invasions and crusades of various sorts if, in the long run, they think it'll keep them hidden. Thus, they'll borrow, be given and steal anything that enhances their ability to carry out a mission.

[MoK]

Why would they need vehicles anyway? Can't they just pop in and out of the webway?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I think not. Probably Cypher has Harlequin buddies according to new fluff but those not with Cypher shouldn't have access to the webway.

[MoK]

They need a Fallen Librarian to pop them in and out.

[Stoic Raptor]

 

I'll see your Converted Arbitres Rhino and raise you a deodorant bottle tank.

 

You, sir, are magnificent.  I've never met another oldbeard that actually remembers that from Rogue Trader.  I actually had one of those!  The guns and other gubbins were off of a Zoid toy.