A lore question about Scouts and the Codex Astartes

[Walter Payton]

Brethren,

 

So, I appreciate that our primarch was a strategist without equal and that the Codex Astartes is a tome of battle-wisdom and knowledge without equal.  I do not claim my own strategic vision is equal to his, let alone greater.

 

However...

 

Aren't reconnaissance and infiltration incredibly difficult tasks in M3 militaries?  Only given to more elite units, such as the Recon Marines in Americ.  This is because they have the incredibly important job of gathering intelligence and target acquisition etc for the main force.  And, since it often involves lots of sneaking around on foot and marching and being away from resupply, are the standards for reconnaissance troops in M3 not also some of the most physically exacting?  And did our primarch not also say that information is victory, so surely getting more of it would be a top priority?

 

See where I'm going with this? Why in the 41st millenium do we give this super-important, physically demanding job, to the newest, least physically impressive guys in the chapter?  

 

I'm just curious if we are ever given a piece of reasoning for this, especially as full Astartes were once used for recon during the heresy, for example with our brothers of the XIX Legion's Mor Dreythan units.

[DogWelder]

I suggest you read Torias Telion: Eye of Vengeance. The short story is told from the POV of Ultramarine scouts and I feel it really fleshes out their role. During the Bloodborn invasion on Quintarn, they crept behind enemy lines and destroyed major Dark Mechanicus forges that would have overrun both the 5th and 6th Ultramarine companies had they not interfered. 

[Brother Captain Ed]

Well, for starters, there's not much elite about it.  I used to be a Cav Scout and it's more a special set of skills than a degree of superiority.

 

Mostly, however, it's a training and doctrine issue.  A fully grown Space Marine is rare and valuable.  He MUST be able to accomplish any task on the battlefield before he's a battle brother.  Scouts work on the periphery and are not supposed to take and hold ground.  Therefore they are more able to evacuate when things go sideways whereas a tactical squad would be expected to fight through the same scenario.

 

Finally, the Vietnam era of sneak, report, and call for fire is pretty much over even here in M3.  The advent of overpowering air and space assets do much more for recon and firepower than ground skirmishers.  Modern ground skirmishers help shape the battlefield and relay information that was previously unknown.  Exactly the role of Codex adherent scouts.

[Frater Cornelius]

Hm, I wonder though. In the M41, is it harder to sneak under competent guidance or stand in one of those crazy firefights? The firefights in 40k are nothing like in M3. They are a maelstrom of destruction and chaos. You shouldn't be there unless you are prepared.

 

We are also talking about SM Scouts, which are basically the equivalent of Stormtroopers in terms of capabilities. They receive a lot of training before they start actually scouting. They may be rookies compared to a Battle Brother, but definitely more hardcore than a regular soldier.

 

I also agree with Ed. Scouting is largely a matter of tech. Marine Scouts are more along the lines of spec ops. Infiltrate, snipe, plant explosives, usually while the main force is fighting or preparing to fight.

[Sugarlessllama]

Given the Grimdark nature of the setting I think we need to look more to the pipeline of making an Astartes that is assigned to a Tactical Squad.

 

1. Scout Company

2. Devastator Squad

3. Assault Squad

4. Tactical Squad

 

TL;DNR: The reason why you are concerned that the new guys are being sent to the scout company is likely the very reason why they are being sent to the scout company: It is very likely that they will die.

 

Longer Version:

 

So looking at the pipeline in reverse we see that by phase four, they should have mastered phases one through three. But why would phase one be seemingly the most difficult. I think it is because it kind of is. See a Space Marine has to be sneaky when it is called for. And such sneakiness is going to be hard in Power Armor. So they assign the duties to the new guys and give them lighter armor which is going to make the sneaking around part of the job easier. But it also makes them more vulnerable: which might be the point. There is only one end to a Space Marine: death. And so if a Space Marine can't hack it in the beginning on their career, why waste the time and resources training them and trying to keep them alive when they are only going to die anyway. And if they are bad at their jobs, they might just bring down the whole mission.

 

Basically I think that it is a weeding out point. Just with a very final end.

 

Which again, when we remember that a Space Marine only ever stops fighting in death, it isn't that far fetched a plan. They only thing is that it seems like a waste in geneseed and tech.

 

But then I think we have to remember when the codex was written. It was written in a time when Space Marines were pumped out assembly line style. Power Armor was just hanging around, and there was no shortage of even Terminator armor. Heck, there were even different kinds of Terminator armor. So it would make sense that RG would think "Well, we take the best kids around, give them a few extra organs and see if they can hack it for real. If not, well we just get more kids. I mean, it isn't like there is a shortage of orphans or other buys of appropriate age."

 

Fast forward 10,000 years and things are very different. Geneseed is rare, and technology is disappearing at a faster and faster rate. And what cool stuff is in the armories is rusting in place because the last guy that knew how to maintain it died 300 years ago and the request for a new technician is being processed by a guy standing in line for the last 30 years, just like his dad.

 

But the codex went from being a manual written by a really smart guy, to a holy tome penned by the son of God himself. No changing that because the supply chain is messed up.

 

But I digress: The new guys become scouts because they might just die.

[Xenith]

Have you considered that Space Marines operate in a different way to armies in M3?

 

What veteran/ specialist soldiers are expected to do in M3 is training for a space marine.

 

Full space marines strap a jet engine to their backs and fire themselves at the enemy while holding a chainsaw in one hand and a fully automatic RPG launcher in the other.

[Raulmichile]

Good point.

[Captain Idaho]

There is also an aspect of numbers and logistics. Space Marines are finite anyway, but in a Chapter there isn't room to have your blitz assault guys sneaking around doing recon.

 

Saving resources, Chapters use the otherwise unsuitable Recruits who might not be physically ready or trained enough for the crucible of Adeptus Astartes warfare.

 

Though dangerous in the extreme, avoiding direct confrontation in grinder battles does keep the recruits alive long enough to survive.

[Closet Skeleton]

Space Marine recruits tend to be from feral worlds, so hunting skills are something they might already have, just like how skirmishers in real historical armies were often recruited from specific backgrounds. Going from 'best hunter in the village' to 'military scout' is a smaller leap than going to 'infantry so heavy many tanks blush'.