Index Astartes: Lions Eternal [Updated 18/05]

[Donkey Kong]

It would make more sense (at least in my mind), that a Chapter is named for its first commander's nomenclature rather than a predator on the world they adopt.

 

 

Certainly. But here's the disconnect. I don't think of hunters when I think of lions. Particularly male lions.

 

That, or they were simply too busy dealing with Orks at the time of the rebellion.

 

 

I wouldn't do this. The biggest Space Marine civil war in M41 and your Chapter is around the corner fighting greenskins? If they move away from the Maelstrom, I would question why you would put them by the Maelstrom in the first place.

 

The gene-seed lineage adds more to a culture that doesn't leave brothers bodies behind and possibly would warrant more apothecaries. And how far back does that lineage go? Are there Brothers who have Eagle Warrior gene-seed? Do they know the names of the Eagle Warriors who they descend from before them? There's a point at which this knowing your lineage descends into absurdity.

[LancsHotpot90]

I think what you've got here is a great basis for a chapter that can really stand out.

 

I will echo others here and suggest you start with what you want the chapter to be itself first them fit the world around them rather than creating a world and chapter separately then trying to fit them together. Reading these posts feels a bit like trying to fit quantum mechanics and general relativity together (we know they're both connected but we can't quite see how yet) :)

 

I'd definitely keep the chapter name as it's a great springboard for all kinds of ideas also a possibility, why not have their geneseed a mystery? This will give you a lot more free reign as to what you can do

 

Just my two pence worth :)

[Ferrus Manus]

 

 

I wouldn't do this. The biggest Space Marine civil war in M41 and your Chapter is around the corner fighting greenskins? If they move away from the Maelstrom, I would question why you would put them by the Maelstrom in the first place.

 

I think in the beginning, before they've found their homeworld, the Chapter would be fleet based and they wouldn't stick to one area of space. The High Lords would just give them a starting point and they'd make their own path from this point of departure. 

 

True, it is a rather significant event. But we are well aware of which Chapters were involved in the Badab War, GW tells us this. There are plenty of Chapters around this area that didn't get involved in the war. 

 

 

 

The gene-seed lineage adds more to a culture that doesn't leave brothers bodies behind and possibly would warrant more apothecaries. And how far back does that lineage go? Are there Brothers who have Eagle Warrior gene-seed? Do they know the names of the Eagle Warriors who they descend from before them? There's a point at which this knowing your lineage descends into absurdity

 

I don't think its that absurd. Think about it: if we take an average marines life span of say between 150-200 years, over the 6000 years of the Chapter's genetic records and warrior histories that would work out at 30-40 warriors per genetic line. For a post-human warrior with a eidetic memory, learning a bit of history of that many people wouldn't be that difficult. Heck, any historian would know as much if not more about a larger group of people. 

 

 

 

I think what you've got here is a great basis for a chapter that can really stand out. 

Thanks.

 

 

 

I will echo others here and suggest you start with what you want the chapter to be itself first them fit the world around them rather than creating a world and chapter separately then trying to fit them together.

 

The thing is, in my mind, the Chapter is a reflection of their homeworld as - over the last 6000 years - the planet's culture has found its way into the Chapter. So the planet's culture is the Chapter's culture.

 

 

 

why not have their geneseed a mystery? This will give you a lot more free reign as to what you can do 

 

Personally, I've always found this plot device as a bit pointless. It doesn't really add anything to the Chapter - unless there is a specific reason, like the 13th or 21st Foundings. That, and the Admech would more than likely have a record, or they could simply compare the genetics from the Chapter's tithes to other Chapters to find out which Legion they descend from. 

[Ferrus Manus]

In an effort to not fail at the first hurdle, I've updated the article. The beliefs section is starting to take shape, and I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts on the matter. Otherwise, aside from the Origins section which I'm still working out, its only the more generic sections left to do. 

 

As always C&C welcome

[Commissar Molotov]

Always good to see you back - and posting to support you - but I think you've made some decent process. I will try to post soon with a more detailed post, but I do think you should consider calling your Chapter the Lions Eternal: I've always been dubious of the name but I think your Chapter Master's quote is rather evocative. I think the idea and symbology of Lions is a lot easier to carry on than the word 'Arctic'. 

 

I think sometimes DIY Chapter creators pigeonhole their Chapter too much - they come from a jungle world, they excel on jungle worlds, they always seem to be fighting on jungle worlds. Making your name independent from a climate means that the fact they come from a frozen hellhole doesn't need to be their defining feature. 

[Ferrus Manus]

As I've mentioned a few times in this thread, I'm still not set on the name and to be honest I'm inclined to agree with you. I've been thinking about the change since I wrote the quote. Plus, I feel like the idea of 'eternal' fits well with their Chapter Cult. 

[TheBlindPrimarch]

I'll be honest, the name of the Chapter makes it hard for me to see them being descendant from Guilliman as opposed to the obvious El'Johnson, and the home world leads me to envision Space Wolves, though to be fair, the SW don't hold a monopoly on ice planets. That being said, I guess my biggest critique would be that as a Chapter the Arctic Lions seem to me to be torn between two to three identities, and so I would suggest that you take the time to expand on these concepts to further define your force.

 

You mention that your Chapter was created to combat the Ork. I would like to see you expand on the Arctic Lions' relationship with their assigned foes because right now for a force created with a special purpose in mind they seem considerably unfocused on said purpose.

 

Finally, your Chapter seems rightfully heroic and there's nothing wrong with that but they lack flaws, and frankly (and believe me that I'm not trying to be mean here) that lack of flaws makes them boring. I would suggest working on developing the character of your Chapter a little bit to remedy this.

 

I wish you the best of luck in the Iron Gauntlet. 

[Ferrus Manus]

 That being said, I guess my biggest critique would be that as a Chapter the Arctic Lions seem to me to be torn between two to three identities, and so I would suggest that you take the time to expand on these concepts to further define your force.

 

Would you expand on what you think these personalities are?

 

 

 

You mention that your Chapter was created to combat the Ork. I would like to see you expand on the Arctic Lions' relationship with their assigned foes because right now for a force created with a special purpose in mind they seem considerably unfocused on said purpose.

 

I Agree to a point, and this will be expanded upon in the Combat Doctrine section, but you have to remember over 6000 years of existence the Chapter's priorities will have changed some what.

 

 

 

Finally, your Chapter seems rightfully heroic and there's nothing wrong with that but they lack flaws, and frankly (and believe me that I'm not trying to be mean here) that lack of flaws makes them boring. I would suggest working on developing the character of your Chapter a little bit to remedy this.

 

Im not really sure how to reply to this. I was never intending them to be outright heroes, more humble warrior monks. What's wrong with a 'run of the mill' Codex Chapter these days?  

[Boldthreat]

Always good to see you back - and posting to support you - but I think you've made some decent process. I will try to post soon with a more detailed post, but I do think you should consider calling your Chapter the Lions Eternal: I've always been dubious of the name but I think your Chapter Master's quote is rather evocative. I think the idea and symbology of Lions is a lot easier to carry on than the word 'Arctic'. 

 

I think sometimes DIY Chapter creators pigeonhole their Chapter too much - they come from a jungle world, they excel on jungle worlds, they always seem to be fighting on jungle worlds. Making your name independent from a climate means that the fact they come from a frozen hellhole doesn't need to be their defining feature. 

 

I agree completely.  That is a good quote, and I think Lions Eternal is a much better name in that regard than Arctic Lions.  

 

 

 

 That being said, I guess my biggest critique would be that as a Chapter the Arctic Lions seem to me to be torn between two to three identities, and so I would suggest that you take the time to expand on these concepts to further define your force.

 

Would you expand on what you think these personalities are?

 

 

 

You mention that your Chapter was created to combat the Ork. I would like to see you expand on the Arctic Lions' relationship with their assigned foes because right now for a force created with a special purpose in mind they seem considerably unfocused on said purpose.

 

I Agree to a point, and this will be expanded upon in the Combat Doctrine section, but you have to remember over 6000 years of existence the Chapter's priorities will have changed some what.

 

 

 

Finally, your Chapter seems rightfully heroic and there's nothing wrong with that but they lack flaws, and frankly (and believe me that I'm not trying to be mean here) that lack of flaws makes them boring. I would suggest working on developing the character of your Chapter a little bit to remedy this.

 

Im not really sure how to reply to this. I was never intending them to be outright heroes, more humble warrior monks. What's wrong with a 'run of the mill' Codex Chapter these days?  

 

 

I think you are in a great place with your Chapter Ferrus... 

 

Nothing is wrong with "run of the mill" Space Marines.  Damnit thats what I like about them.  They come from a noble lineage, with stable Geneseed.  They recruit from a hardy people that are a product of their cruel and harsh world.  I am not going to call your idea simple, because you have put a great amount of thought into your background... but I enjoy the "basic-ness" of them.  On one hand... these guys aren't just Ultramarines, they have their own history and background and culture.  But on the other... they are the standard Codex-Compliant Chapter.  That is a great place to be.  I feel your guys could just "fit" in the universe without shoe-horning anything else here.  That is what is great about it (judging on your updated article)

 

I don't think your guys are boring at all.  They sound like Space Marines to me!

[TheBlindPrimarch]

I might not have worded my first sentence well enough. Essentially what I meant by three personalities was that of those imparted by the name of your Chapter. "Arctic" in regards to Space Marines tends to make one think of the Space Wolves (personality one), just as "Lions" is a general link to the Dark Angels (personality two). The third personality is that of your declared connection to the Ultramarines. What I meant by expanding on the concepts was that you should seek to create a deeper connection to the personality of the Ultramarines in order to distance your concept from the other two.

 

That is definitely true, but still such a strongly fine tuned purpose would still leave very visible marks on a Chapter's character, even after 6000 years.

 

Finally, I apologize, there is nothing wrong with your intent to put together a "run-of-the-mill" Chapter. You execute it very well. But IMO this is the very reason I've never been a huge fan of the Ultramarines. 

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

So, given that you've been lampooned a million times on the homeworld, I will have only one minor question about it.

 

 

On the subject of the Chapter Master, why does he spend so much time in prayer in the chapel, other than being pious? Was he picked to join the Eagle Warriors from a scholam, was he on the Chaplain track before being chosen for command, or was it something else?

 

In relation to this, does this massive amount of time spent in prayer affect his combat abilities at all? Does he spend so much time in the chapel he neglects the battlecages and the command room?

 

Thirdly, why is he so worried about corruption? I feel like a good answer to these questions would really develop his character. (Alteratively, he matters not at in the 41st millennium and you can ignore the above. That's another option I'd be fine with.)

 

whilst city dwellers trade rusting rifles for the textiles of the peoples of the wastes.

Do the city dwellers make the guns or the textiles? It's a tad confusing here.

 

While they are of Ultramarine Geneseed, the 'hunting' bit (especially the hunt for orks, which while I mention them I notice they aren't really mentioned other than the first bits of the article) is very White-Scar-Esque. While this at least partially comes from their planet, are the WS's influences in any way? The way it's written they come across more WS successors than UM successors, but that may just be my innate anti-fanboyism railing at Ultramarines. Maybe part of their initial training cadre was WS, or the cooperated with the White Scars at some point?

 

I like this chapter, overall, though I feel a couple of things could be explained a little better/expounded upon. Cheers, and good luck with the rest of the Iron Guantlet.

[Brother Argent]

Okay so in all honestly not much I can offer, as to be expected with such a long established idea from a member of the Liberati.  Only a few questions or comments I can make, really.  Firstly I love the name the Arctic Lions.  I always have and I think it would be a shame to change their name.  I also love where the name comes from.  But I must query why a Captain of the EAGLE Warriors would be called a Lion... Although it suits the Ultramarine thing I'm just not sure it works from that particular Ultramarine Successor.  

 

I also love the idea of the Homeworld as it stands.  The whole frozen hives beneath a vast inhospitable frozen waste just works for me.  Although I must wonder where all these deadly creatures have come from if the world was a nice unfrozen place before the sun's health went south.

 

I did have a few other things to say but that have left me (actually read the article a few hours ago and was about to reply before I got called away).  If they reoccur to me I will let you know but keep working at them Ferrus.  Loving them so far.

[Legionare]

I find the clans of Ursik fascinating. Is it in anyway possible for you to tell more about those? Especially i would like some clarification about their tech level, since they scavenge technologies from the depths of Ursik and even meet some off-world visitors in those trading post that exist.

 

Also about those trading posts: are those in use only for those more forgiving times, or do they exist in areas that are always somewhat safer?

 

And one more question, i'm curios about what suplies and food can the clans find on the surface during those calmer times? Are there areas where they can farm crops during those times?

[Ferrus Manus]

With the deadline looming, I thought I'd post my most recent effort. Yes, I have affected the name change. I haven't got time to answer all the questions and comments now but I'll come back to them

[Ferrus Manus]

Apologise for the double post, but now I have a bit of time to reply to all the feedback. But first, I've added in a the Combat doctrine section which means that the only section left to draft is the Origins. I must say, I am extremely happy with how this draft of the Chapter has turned out. For me personally, it has taken the best parts of the previous attempts over the last decade and become something much better.

Anyway, onto the comments.

Lenoch

The character of Helikeon still needs working on a bit, but in my mind, he is much like how Gabriel Angelos is portrayed in the second Dawn of War book: when not in the battle cages or at war he is at prayer. Though I doubt he would take it as far so that it neglects his duties as a Captain. To be honest, I can't really answer your questions at the moment because I hadn't given too much thought to the character. But over next week or so it is something I'm looking to develop. Thanks for the food for thought.

It would be the city dwellers trading the rifles. Most likely they would have been bought cheap from some passing trader or have been found in the decaying depths of the submerged Hives. As for the Hunting question I'm hoping the Combat Doctrine section clears it up a bit.

Brother SP

To be honest, the longer this Chapter's been around the less and less keen I've been on the name hence I've gone with the name change. As the Chapter's character has grown, for me, it has become harder and harder to justify without falling to a cliche.

I can see where your coming from with the Lion/ Eagle thing. The way I saw it was as an ancient honorific from back in the days of the Utramarines Legion. It's something I could develop in a sidebar I suppose.

I'm glad you like the homeworld, its probably what I'm most proud of. If you remember your other points please don't hesitate to send them my way

Legionare

In terms of tech level, in my head they're like Inuit tribes with low grade Fallout game tech. If that makes any sense?

Have you read Dante? When he goes to be judged by the Blood Angels he comes across this settlement which is more advanced than the rest of the planet, and is used to trade off-world and as a place of pilgrimage. I think there would be no reason why these trading settlements, which were specifically built in 'safer' zones of the planet, couldn't be at least partially shielded against the planet's winters making them of use - at least by its inhabitants and off-worlders - all the time.

I don't really see them as the farming type. I think they would more live off what little grows naturally - even if that is just moss - then they would supplement their diet with whatever they can hunt for food.

++++

I know the Gauntlet challenge has ended, but I'm still very keen to develop these guys further. So please keep the C&C coming.