Herald of Magnus Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Hi there, Sorry but I'm really in need of help here. I have a game on Friday and it's going to be me vs two people, me at 3k points them at 1.5k points each. They're mechanicum and ultramarines 40k armies vs my 30k Iron hands armies. We're figuring out rule discrepancies but I just found out that 30k Knights aren't lord of war choice I think? I need to know if this army is legal, I also have a land raider phobos and a land raider achilles I could use, + alot of heavy support squad models with volkite culverins etc that I could use. Unfortunately I only have the one rhino. The ultrmarine player has been known to drop pod or gunline, mechanicum I'm unsure. If anything please just help me with the list? I'm unsure as to the knights points or how allying with them works cause I don't have the 30k book with them in, just the 40k codex. I know they're lord of war on that but it says online they're not in 30k? I'm unsure, anyway without further ado: Rite of war: Head of Gorgon Lord Of War Ferrus Manus 455 HQ Autek Mor 225 Troop: Marines x10, Rhino, artifier, P fist, melta bombs, 155 + 35 Marines x20 P fist, artificer armour 250 Elite: Gorgon Termies x10 Cyber familiar 385 Gorgon termies x5 cyber familiar 210 Heavy support: Spartan, Ceramite, flare shield 370 Vindicator x2 machine spirit 290 Whirlwind scorpius 115 Predator Ceramite, machine spirit, plasma cannon 175 Ally? Questoris knight? (Knight paladin) 375 I think I'm going to outflank the spartan and the vindicators so they can't get popped by gravity-type stuff? Unsure.. So is it legal to do this? Should the knight just be in the primary detachment? I'm unsure but I've had the model for a while now and it's still unused which is upsetting! Or I could take out the deathstar and use two more land raiders but then I have nothing to transport in the spartan, unless I Just make it a small unit of gorgons like 5 of them? That seems quite cool, then keep Ferrus with all my tanks, I still have two contemptors, a land raider phobos, land raider achilles that I could use to make an ultimate tank list! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331950-iron-hands-3k-points-help-needed/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angmarred Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Both Ferrus and the Knight are Lords of War (unless you run Primarch's Chosen). Allied detachment needs a troops and an hq so can't have just one knight. You could run the Onslaught formation for two LoW Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331950-iron-hands-3k-points-help-needed/#findComment-4683838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 If I run the Onslaught Formation is the rest of my army legal? Sorry I'm not currently at home with my book so can't check. Would it be worth me removing the deathstar for more tanks you think? Edit: also If I did that would the knight be a part of my primary detachment now? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331950-iron-hands-3k-points-help-needed/#findComment-4683850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 OK so if I take out the knight I'm looking at doing this for now: Lord Of War Ferrus Manus 455 HQ Autek Mor 225 Troop: Marines x10, Rhino, artifier, P fist, melta bombs, 155 + 35 Marines x20 P fist, artificer armour 250 Elite: Gorgon Termies x10 Cyber familiar 385 Gorgon termies x5 cyber familiar 210 Contemptor Talon x2, kheres assault cannon 380 Heavy support: Spartan, Ceramite, flare shield 370 Vindicator x2 machine spirit 290 Whirlwind scorpius 115 Predator Ceramite, machine spirit, plasma cannon 175 So adding the contemptors which can be used for a bit of counter attack if anything drop pods in, seems to work? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331950-iron-hands-3k-points-help-needed/#findComment-4683902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritual Liege Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 You don't need to run it as Onslaught. You can give the Spartan as dedicated transport for your Gorgons and then you have 3 heavy slots, can run the basic FoC and a Rite of War. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331950-iron-hands-3k-points-help-needed/#findComment-4683909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 OH I didn't even realise the Spartan was able to be taken as a dedicated, oh dear but that's good, it means I could potentially put more Heavy Supports in however I'm unsure. I really feel like the deathstar won't be worth it but I'm unsure of what to take out/use or do, I'm unsure as to what my army needs whether it's more anti infantry or tank or whatever. OK but here with a bit of editing it's look like: Lord Of War (1) Ferrus Manus 455 HQ (1) Autek Mor 225 Troop: (2) Marines x10, Rhino, artifier, P fist, melta bombs, 155 + 35 Marines x20 P fist, artificer armour 250 Elite: (3) Gorgon Termies x10 Cyber familiar 385 Inside of: Spartan, Ceramite, flare shield 370 Gorgon termies x5 cyber familiar 210 Contemptor Talon x2, kheres assault cannon 380 Heavy support: (3) Vindicator x2 machine spirit 290 Whirlwind scorpius 115 Predator Ceramite, machine spirit, plasma cannon 175 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331950-iron-hands-3k-points-help-needed/#findComment-4683913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 Guys I really don't know what I should be doing to make this list balanced. Obviously I want tanks to abuse Ferrus' rules and Blessed, but at the same time I feel I need more troops, at the same time I don't know if my gorgons are even worth it... Bleh! I feel like I should cut the deathstar down to make room for more infantry or heavy support squads to use? I'm really not sure, or maybe I should be using my land raider phobos, or the achilles? Man, this sucks... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331950-iron-hands-3k-points-help-needed/#findComment-4683995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I agree you could use more troops, but the unfortunate thing is that the elite infantry you want like veteran tacticals really need rhinos which you said you lack. A big standard tactical squad on foot is decent, but any specialized squad like support squads and vets need rhinos. What I'd probably do is drop the 5 man gorgon squad. Gorgon terminators are ok, but a squad of 5 with no transport is useless. The 10 man squad is sufficient. Use those pts to get maybe a plasma support squad or veteran marksmen with combi weapons, and they can take the tactical squad's rhino. If you need more pts I'd drop the predator, one is fairly useless, they are much better in squadrons. Are you running a rite of war? I'd highly recommend running head of the Gorgon which is good for all your vehicles. Another option is primarchs chosen, then ferrus counts as an HQ and you can take your knight as a LoW. Lastly I don't particularly like heavy support squads, they die too quickly but volkite culverins are awesome. A squad with an apothecary and a bunker should not be too easy to kill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331950-iron-hands-3k-points-help-needed/#findComment-4684386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 Thanks for the advice! The game is on friday so right now I'm stuck to using models I've already got, outside of this list I don't have much spare bar some land raiders, some dreads, heavy support squads and a lot of marines.. Unfortunately not much in the way of transport. I'm kind of reshuffling things around unsure of what thing to do, I wasn't sure the 20 man marine squad would be useful so decided if I cut it to 10 and cut the 5 gorgons you said what could I do and came up with this: Lord Of War (1) Ferrus Manus 455 HQ (1) Autek Mor 225 Troop: (2) Marines x10, Rhino, artifier, P fist, melta bombs, 155 + 35 Marines x10 P fist, artificer armour 155 Elite: (2) Gorgon Termies x10 Cyber familiar 385 Inside of: Spartan, Ceramite, flare shield 370 Contemptor Talon x2, kheres assault cannon 380 Heavy support: (4) Achilles, Incendiar, 280 Vindicator x2 machine spirit 290 Whirlwind scorpius 115 Predator Ceramite, machine spirit, plasma cannon 175 I know that part of the list will be hard hitting ultramarine drop pod list, or it'll be a full UM + mechanicum gunline from them both, I'm unsure. Either way I know there'll be deep striking dreadnoughts in there.. I was running head of the gorgon so I could outflank my vindicators, and get blessed auto for free as well. I know I'm going to have trouble with scoring but as you said, I don't have much in the way of troops I can really use to score anyway so I think I'm going to have to accept I've got that disadvantage right now... Should I outflank my spartan maybe to save it from being hit by them damn kataphron grav things? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331950-iron-hands-3k-points-help-needed/#findComment-4684388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 You say you have a lot of marines, none of those marines have special weapons like plasmas, combi weapons, or meltas? I ask because the Achilles is an excellent transport for a small hard hitting squad like tactical support squad with plasma guns. I wouldn't outflank your spartan for a few reasons. First off it's super tough with wind, ferrus repairing it every turn and blessed auto. Second, you don't want your big scary terminator unit with ferrus failing their reserve roll and being stuck not assaulting till turn 4. Better to keep them on the table so they can assault earlier. Lastly you've got a lot of armored saturation so better to keep those all on the board to force hard choices on your target. Plasma supports in the Achilles would make that choice even harder. One last thought, Autek Mor is an awesome character but his great warlord trait is wasted considering you can't make him the warlord, and you hardly need him for his combat prowess given ferrus will be more than enough to beat up any characters your opponents have. To save pts I might take a cheaper consul that could buff the Gorgons, like a chaplain or forge lord with rad grenades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331950-iron-hands-3k-points-help-needed/#findComment-4684404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 Unfortunately no I've got about 40 regular marines from 40k that all have bolter and then about 15 heavy support ones with mix of heavy bolter Las and plasma cannons. One of the next thing I do will be to get special weapon kits to deck them out but I can't yet I'm afraid! I was heavily considering swapping Autek for orth to command one of the tanks and then take a few more gorgons - would they really need a consul to make them hit harder with Ferrus there? So you think I shouldn't outflank anything then? Try and deploy it all and see what I can do? Out flanking does just seem like it'll give deep strikers more time to pick stuff off.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331950-iron-hands-3k-points-help-needed/#findComment-4684409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Honestly if your opponents are willing I'd proxy plasma cannon marine as plasma gun marines then. A squad of 6 would fit perfectly in the Achilles. I forgot about Orth, he's solid and a good commander for your achilles. Yeah don't other with outflanking the spartan, outflanking is just generally not great for assualt oriented units. It would be ok for the vindicators, you just have to consider if showing up on your opponents flank is worth losing a turn of shooting, which is a call you might not be able to make until you deploy your army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331950-iron-hands-3k-points-help-needed/#findComment-4684419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 Ooh ok so that's a good idea then. Essentially drop Autek pick up Orth and 6 plasma gun guys for the achilles. Point wise I can make that fit. Does that make this a decent all round tank army would you say or? Everytime I look at a list I think of things I should change or do never being able to settle so I really start to get a bit anxious about it to be honest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331950-iron-hands-3k-points-help-needed/#findComment-4684434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 Lord Of War (1) Ferrus Manus 455 HQ (1) Orth 80 (commanding the Achilles?) Troop: (2) Marines x10, Rhino, artifier, P fist, melta bombs, 155 + 35 Marines x10 P fist, artificer armour 155 Support squad x6 plasma = 205 (Inside Achilles) Elite: (2) Gorgon Termies x10 Cyber familiar 385 Inside of: Spartan, Ceramite, flare shield 370 Contemptor Talon x2, kheres assault cannon 380 Heavy support: (4) Achilles, Incendiar, 280 Vindicator x2 machine spirit 290 Whirlwind scorpius 115 Predator Ceramite, plasma cannon 150 This is the finished list I think I'll use, don't have time really to add more. What do you think now? I'm pretty sure Orth should command the Achilles but if I need anti tank maybe the spartan would be a good call? Either way, I think it's pretty decent and the tanks make it pretty fluffy right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331950-iron-hands-3k-points-help-needed/#findComment-4684978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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