Appropriate bolt pistol patterns for World Eaters

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I'm currently building my World Eater's assault squads and I have 3 different patterns to choose from (Phobos, Umbra, & Tigrus) and I'm not quite sure which ones to equip them with. 

 

 

Is there a particular pattern preferred by the World Eaters or the Legions Astartes in general? 

 

[Marshal Loss]

Tigrus is the most modern pattern, and Phobos is the older, more brutal looking one. I think Phobos goes better with Mark II/III armour, and Tigrus goes better with Mark IV, so it's really up to you, whatever you think looks coolest. Don't know anything about Umbra except that they're an older pattern like Phobos, I didn't even know there were Umbra pattern bolt pistols available.

 

If your troops have been supplied by the Warmaster recently, maybe give them Tigrus. If they're still in Mark II armour (or Mark III), maybe give them Phobos to show that they have been using their weapons and armour for a long time. Or mix and match throughout a unit to reflect the casual approach of the XII Legion. Or perhaps you think your Veterans should be the ones receiving the latest wargear. There's no right or wrong answer!

[Son of Carnelian]

Whatever the dead leave behind that still works. 

[depthcharge12]

I like my gear to tell a story. More brutal or older Legions? Phobos.

 

More modern, well supplied by the Warmaster? MkIV. Veterans? Likewise.

 

However, for odd units like Reavers or even TS, I would use Umbra pattern. Looks foreign and very practical, no frills.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Tigrus is the most modern pattern, and Phobos is the older, more brutal looking one. I think Phobos goes better with Mark II/III armour, and Tigrus goes better with Mark IV, so it's really up to you, whatever you think looks coolest. Don't know anything about Umbra except that they're an older pattern like Phobos, I didn't even know there were Umbra pattern bolt pistols available.

 

If your troops have been supplied by the Warmaster recently, maybe give them Tigrus. If they're still in Mark II armour (or Mark III), maybe give them Phobos to show that they have been using their weapons and armour for a long time. Or mix and match throughout a unit to reflect the casual approach of the XII Legion. Or perhaps you think your Veterans should be the ones receiving the latest wargear. There's no right or wrong answer!

Most of my Army is in MkIV.. and my Assault Squads are in a mix of armor.. MkV torso and legs with MkII helmets and shoulder pads, a few have MkIV arms. The theme of my Army is a siege specialized force during Isstvan 3. 

 

I know "MkV" isn't the most fluffy but I wouldn't say that it's a true "MkV" with all of the mixing of Mks.

 

The Umbra BPs actually come with FWs MkV Assault Squads =P. I think I'll be sticking with Phobos and Tigrus then, thanks man! 

[Marshal Loss]

Mark V is very fluffy, after all World Eaters were the original Traitor Legion designed to suit that mark back when Jes Goodwin made the first cult marine sculpts. :)

[Brad_hutcho]

It's costing me an arm and a leg (not too bad now GW is about to release Mk III plastics), but my WE army is clad in only Mk II and III armour, Mk IV onwards looks too streamline and not brutal enough for the glorious XIIth Legion

Also, Phobos chain-axes and bolt pistols come packaged together from FW, and since there's no point running WE without chain-axe fluffiness, the answer I'd give is go phobos but that's just my opinion obviously

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Mark V is very fluffy, after all World Eaters were the original Traitor Legion designed to suit that mark back when Jes Goodwin made the first cult marine sculpts. :)

  

 

It is fluffy for later on in the Heresy... true, but what I meant was since my Army is one that's fighting on Isstvan 3 it won't make as much since. But I guess that's if you're under the belief that MkV was a complete suit and not just field upgrades to replace damaged gear.

 

It's costing me an arm and a leg (not too bad now GW is about to release Mk III plastics), but my WE army is clad in only Mk II and III armour, Mk IV onwards looks too streamline and not brutal enough for the glorious XIIth Legion :D

 

Also, Phobos chain-axes and bolt pistols come packaged together from FW, and since there's no point running WE without chain-axe fluffiness, the answer I'd give is go phobos :rolleyes:  but that's just my opinion obviously :D

That's where all my Phobos BPs are from. =p

[Marshal Loss]

Mark V is very fluffy, after all World Eaters were the original Traitor Legion designed to suit that mark back when Jes Goodwin made the first cult marine sculpts.

It is fluffy for later on in the Heresy... true, but what I meant was since my Army is one that's fighting on Isstvan 3 it won't make as much since. But I guess that's if you're under the belief that MkV was a complete suit and not just field upgrades to replace damaged gear.

If you take Mark V in its original lore, then Isstvan III is a perfect environment, even early in the Heresy. The World Eaters were embroiled in intense fighting for months at a time on that planet, it's not hard to imagine warriors wearing ad-hoc suits as a result as they replaced components with parts from fallen brothers.

[Vodunius]

Mark V is very fluffy, after all World Eaters were the original Traitor Legion designed to suit that mark back when Jes Goodwin made the first cult marine sculpts.

It is fluffy for later on in the Heresy... true, but what I meant was since my Army is one that's fighting on Isstvan 3 it won't make as much since. But I guess that's if you're under the belief that MkV was a complete suit and not just field upgrades to replace damaged gear.

If you take Mark V in its original lore, then Isstvan III is a perfect environment, even early in the Heresy.

Erm. In it's *original* lore Mark V was new suit designed and manufactured by Mars as a result of the loyalists running out of spares for their Mark IV in the face of the traitors onslaught. The idea that it was a catch-all term for ad-hoc field modifications is very very new fluff originating from Deliverance Lost.

Just because the original Khorne Berzerker had it doesn't mean it was because the pre-Khorne legion loved it - the original Plague Marine created in the same batch wore a Mark II helmet but the justification given wasn't that the Death Guard loved Mark II, but that Plague Marines loved it because it emulated Plague Bearers in only having a single eyepiece. Likewise the Khorne concept sketches note that they might like the heat buildup.

[Marshal Loss]

That is more than a little misleading. I have an old WD issue (129) saying that even those Legions stocked up on Mark IV suits found themselves unable to manufacture replacements. I believe this article is also reprinted in Apocrypha. Mark V has always been the 'stop-gap' pattern, utilising parts from older patterns and bonding studs/extra armour to make up for the lack of the more modern Mark IV parts. It was not a pattern mass-produced by Mars any more than it was other Forge Worlds and Legion Armouries across the Imperium, in fact the article doesn't mention Mars at all.

 

Obviously the Traitors were always better supplied and the Loyalists were forced into using it first, but those involved in intense, months long engagements can easily be envisaged slapping together different marks to create Mark V in its truest sense. Mark V has always been a pattern associated with the Heresy and Traitor Marines in general. I'd wager that Isstvan III was exactly that kind of environment that could have forced the Traitors to slap together different parts.

 

Additionally, I never said the pre-Khorne Legion 'loved' Mark V, merely that it's a fitting homage to the original Berzerker sculpt, which it is.

[1ncarnadine]

Mark V has so many conflicting sources on it right now. And because the IP is what it is, all of them could be correct to some extent. The faceplate alone has been called a number of different patterns (as both "Sarum" and "Mantilla" in Betrayal alone), so at least components have been shown to have existed pre-Heresy. And there's a Black Shield marine in Retribution who wears a full suit of "production Mk V." So I'm not sure "it was just a stop-gap and isn't a real mark" completely stands on its own two legs these days.

 

At the end of the day, just use a type of weapon or armour mark because it looks cool and suits the attitude of a squad or force. It's fine to put a lot of thought into your army and its background, but at the same time try not to overthink it. This might just be me, but I've had a better time with the hobby by enabling my modeling ideas instead of getting anxiety over what's technically appropriate.

[1000 Sons]

Bolt pistol.....is that a fancy way to say chain axe skull fragment remover ?

[Ion]

Phobos bolt weapons look so brutal compared to tigrus, I'd be going phobos for WE personally

[Vodunius]

That is more than a little misleading. I have an old WD issue (129) saying that even those Legions stocked up on Mark IV suits found themselves unable to manufacture replacements. I believe this article is also reprinted in Apocrypha. Mark V has always been the 'stop-gap' pattern, utilising parts from older patterns and bonding studs/extra armour to make up for the lack of the more modern Mark IV parts. It was not a pattern mass-produced by Mars any more than it was other Forge Worlds and Legion Armouries across the Imperium, in fact the article doesn't mention Mars at all.

 

 

 

Uh-huh..

Mark 2: "With it's advanced technology the newly conquered planet of Mars became the centre for munitions development. New types of armour were produced in great numbers in the Martian factories.."

Mark 4: "..the Martian factory hives of the Adeptus Mechanicus set about producing a new variant suit."

Mark 6: "During the Martian campaign forces of Horus eventually overran the production facilities.."

Mark 7: "While the final battle for Mars was underway../The armour development teams from Mars were transferred wholesale.."

Whilst Mars is not specifically mentioned within the Mark 5 entry, that's only because the entry didn't exist in isolation but within a larger flowing narrative wherein the Martian location had already been established.

 

The article went to great lengths to establish that Mark 5 was "a new type of armour designed almost over-night" complete with a helmet derived from the Terminator development program and a brand new torso design - neither of which would have been available to the forces trapped on Isstvan III no matter how hard they scavenged. 

 

It did state "Being something of an improvised stop-gap, it is common for Mark 5 suits to vary." but it then promptly went on to specify Mark 4 helmets, armour plating and cabling - not older helmets and plating in general. The stated reason for the new designs creation was that Mark 4 suits "quickly became unusable due to quite minor battle damage" due to lack of spare parts, and that the new design used as many pre-Mark 4 components* as possible due their being widely available.. if pre-Mark 4 components were available in abundance and compatible with Mark 4 then the lack of Mk4 specific spare parts wouldn't have been an issue, an unspoken yet implicit component in the Mark 5 fluff therefore was that pre-Mark 4 components were not compatible, necessitating the brand new design to make use of them. FW even accidentally slipped this into one of the black books, with a note that the Iron Hands are the only legion capable of mating Mk3 & Mk4 due to the underlying compatability issues.  

 

* the only specific component identified being power cables, where notably rather than use an older torso they designed a brand new - and problematic - torso to accomodate the old cabling. 

[RaEndymion]

I would say Phobos is best, but with the less organised way the World Eaters go about war, I think having a mix wouldn't be out of place.