Eye of Ezekiel

[cheywood]

His more fantastical 40k work like Path of Eldar is great, but not something discussable here I believe.

 

I'm currently reading Unforgiven and just can't get into it. All the constant disobeying of orders doesn't line up with my vision of the Dark Angels. Nothing wrong with his depiction, but in a shared universe one enters a book with pre-conceived notions of the setting and sometimes those diverge from the author's.

Edited March 21, 2017 by cheywood

[HeritorA]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Waaaay better than Pandorax. Gotta say that my initial reaction is that it was very good. Great characterizations of the Voyostran First Born. Also while you need not have read it, there was an awesome scene relating to Pandorax in it.

 

As a Dark Angel fan it was very refreshing. I'll sleep on it before reviewing.

Indeed - way better than Pandorax. It would have been a 'good' novel if not for the orks.

 

That's as a DA fan and simply as a reader who want to get a good story. As for who do DA better - Gav or Dunn - it's easy: both Thorpe or Dunn do lucklaster DA. Poor DA are the third Legion/Chapter (after Salamanders/Raven Guard) to suffer from bad writing.

I'm curious, how many times do you read a book before you consign it to a scrapheap of mediocrity? I find that I need to read a book a couple of times before making a fully informed decision as invariably discover that I've missed things out first time round if I've read something within 2 days of release.

Usually I read book 2 times (before I critisize something - I read material). On the second reread it has not improved my opinion about it. Same with the Vulkan Lives, Deathfire, Corax anthology, Ravenwing, Purging of Kadillus - which are an abyssmal read

So you've read Eye of Ezekiel twice since it came out on Friday and formed a conclusive opinion on it? I find even once I've finished a book its themes and characters sit and percolate in my head. For me at least that's an important part of softening initial judgements, both positive and negative. To each their own though.

Usually they do - if a book is good, if it's story is well written and has some meaning. Then the book would be read again and enjoyed. Slamanders, DA and Raven Guard simply rolled a rong dice to have been written in bad stories

 

Certainly. I feel in the case of a wide IP, books have more stacked against them as well. For me personally, poor writing isnt the only thing that can turn me away, so can egregious examples of continuity snarl or characters acting in ways that make me feel like I'm going to blow a blood vessel. I can't stand a lot of Tau stories because they have a bad case of just being blue humans, so there's another thing that would make me drop a story beyond simple literary quality or depth.

 

As for Eye of Ezekiel, I'm interested to see how I take to it. A new author getting his hands on a Chapter/Legion that has long gotten the literary shaft (IMO) is an exciting prospect.

Dunn is not a new author. As for all else I agree with you

Agreed on the Salamanders and DA's. I feel with the Raven Guard it's not so much bad writing as a lack of content. There's a few George Mann books, though like Dunn he's primarily an editor, and Thorpe's written two HH novels about them, but that's pretty much it. Both the Dark Angels and Salamanders have had far more written about them, unless there's a series I'm forgetting of course.

 

As for Dunn, while he may not be new his output for BL as a writer is small enough that people who don't remember Pandorax might not've heard of him.

Yeah - Raven Guard got a better treatment in George Mann books in W40K. But in Hh they 'suffered' under Thorpe treatment. It was especially sad - cause their first arrival on big HH scene in 'Raven's Flight' audio was amazing (I even questioned if it was really written by Thorpe). But at least it was 'far better' treatment than poor Salamanders. They simply were written straight into hell.

 

It's not only Pandorax - in the long past 2000-sh his name was on almost every BL anthology as an editor (Edited by C.Dunn and M.G.). What I could remember about Dunn in good light is his audio 'Malediction', which was unexpectedly good (being a standard DA story with Fallen 'involved')

Thorpe surprises me sometimes like that. I'm not generally a big fan of his work, but every once in a while he'll hit on something really unique and enjoyable. I feel like moving away from space marines more would result in better writing from him, but that's just my opinion.

Part of the 'issue' I find with Gav is: his writing's usually very dry. His characters are fascinating depictions, but it's difficult to start gushing over them. (Though I was pleasantly surprised in "The Unforgiven", as well as his much more intriguing & evocative Fantasy work.)

 

40k being grim as it is means his is a bit more austere, a bit less... escapist.

 

Which isn't awful, hell - I *like* it - but I know it rubs some folk up the wrong way.

 

With that in mind, I'd generally agree - going for a more human angle really suits his writing; his Astartes can often be a bit too dour/serious/focussed for their own good (as engaging characters).

 

Dry is a good comparison. Also he has a problem with depiction of environments. I still cringe on Ravenwing running at full speed on bikes in a Ramillies class starfort ....

 

'0k being grim as it is means his is a bit more austere, a bit less... escapist.

Which isn't awful, hell - I *like* it - but I know it rubs some folk up the wrong way.' - sure

[rendingon1+]

...Finished. And I had such hopes for these one.

[Augustus]

Care to elaborate?

[Mellow]

I find all of this quoting each other's quotes of quotes when replying to threads a bit annoying. It makes it very difficult to see what people are saying because more than half of each page is old thread content.

[HeritorA]

...Finished. And I had such hopes for these one.

Told you.

 

I find all of this quoting each other's quotes of quotes when replying to threads a bit annoying. It makes it very difficult to see what people are saying because more than half of each page is old thread content.

If not to quote - we will lose a 'logic' connection between replies

[cheywood]

I find all of this quoting each other's quotes of quotes when replying to threads a bit annoying. It makes it very difficult to see what people are saying because more than half of each page is old thread content.

Apologies for that. I didn't see how terrible it looked at first.

[HeritorA]

Guys I do absolutely agree that a lot of 'quotes' looks bad - but if the thread goes over the page in length and has 5 or more people in discussion - how do you want to know  to whom and about what person is talking

[cheywood]

I think the idea is to eliminate the old quotes so you're only replying to the latest in the thread? I tried to do that but being on a phone made it kind of a hassle and I ended up with a bunch of nonsense.

[HeritorA]

Exactly - a lot of us are using phones and sometimes 'in need' to answer to several people

[Mellow]

I'm just saying that quoting the whole of someone's reply is a bit silly. Perhaps try to crop it so you're only quoting the one paragraph that your post is in reply to.

[HeritorA]

Good point Mellow. Should do the trick

[mc warhammer]

yeah but on the phone, it can be tricky...sometimes it doesn't behave and removes all quote tags weirdly.

[rendingon1+]

Care to elaborate?

 

 

1. Way the story is told. Here we have "a handfull" space marines leading imperial guard in defense of a fortress/city versus milions of orks. Reminds me of something...yes! Helsreach. Only it's way worse than former. I struggled to feel the scale of this battle even with numbers provided - some 0,5 million guards + DA 5th + some skitarii maniples for defenders against 11< million orks. Yet reading through the book, it all looked very small, skirmish.

2. Characters. Characters who in my opinion utterly lacked personality (with few exceptions - Vostroyans, Turmiel, Rephiel and Baltasar). They were just random space marines that happened to be in green of the Dark Angels. Hilariously I was more interested in parts with Labdon and his squad  than in wht DA were doing.

3. Everything else.

1. Also what the hell was that supposed to mean:

‘Sergeant Balthasar is where he always is – in the training chambers drilling his squad. I’ve never met a Space Marine so meticulous in his approach to battle, and I’ve encountered more than a few Ultramarines in my time.’ There was something ominous about the way Zadakiel said ‘encountered’.

‘First Squad sets the standard that all of Fifth Company must aspire to, Epistolary,’ Balthasar said. Despite the sergeant’s naked hatred of psykers, Ezekiel was warming to Balthasar. His devotion to not only the Dark Angels, but also excellence in battle, was unswerving.

 

‘Were it not for an accident of birth, of being raised upon a world under the sworn protection of the Dark Angels, you might have made a fine Ultramarine, brother,’

Implying that DA are inferior to UM? Wow.

 

2. The moment Ezekiel encountered Labdon it was obvious the latter is gonna die and Ezekiel will have his bionic. 

3. Was that demon thing necessary?

4. Plot itself was weak.

Edited March 24, 2017 by rendingon1+

[Allart01]

So, that Cypher scene...?

[rendingon1+]

So, that Cypher scene...?

You wish an extract?

[Allart01]

 

So, that Cypher scene...?

You wish an extract?

 

 

No, I'm wondering if there was more to it, or it was just what we saw in the preview...

Edited March 24, 2017 by Kharn the Bloody

[rendingon1+]

Basically that's it. Nothing more except that Ezekiel recognies Cypher.

[DarkChaplain]

That

 

 

 

1. Also what the hell was that supposed to mean:

‘Sergeant Balthasar is where he always is – in the training chambers drilling his squad. I’ve never met a Space Marine so meticulous in his approach to battle, and I’ve encountered more than a few Ultramarines in my time.’ There was something ominous about the way Zadakiel said ‘encountered’.

‘First Squad sets the standard that all of Fifth Company must aspire to, Epistolary,’ Balthasar said. Despite the sergeant’s naked hatred of psykers, Ezekiel was warming to Balthasar. His devotion to not only the Dark Angels, but also excellence in battle, was unswerving.

‘Were it not for an accident of birth, of being raised upon a world under the sworn protection of the Dark Angels, you might have made a fine Ultramarine, brother,’

Implying that DA are inferior to UM? Wow.

 

 

Nothing in that implies the Dark Angels consider themselves inferior to the Ultramarines. They are different Chapters with different focus points.

 

Dark Angels too strive for excellence in battle, and Balthasar is just an exemplar at that even among his own. It isn't related to Ultramarines doing it better, but Balthasar being great in his own right.

 

Ultramarines have a bit of a stick up their backside in a lot of Chapters' eyes, and there are various traits, including logistical and tactical thinking patterns, that Balthasar might show for himself, that would result in brothers telling him he is kind of UM. Ultramarines are meticulous in battle. They're more clinical than passionate about it, and it contrasts with the Dark Angels who can often show a degree of zeal that the Ultramarines lack.

 

It all just points out to me that Balthasar has a more analytical and clear-cut approach to his duties than many other Dark Angels, and that he strives for excellence in what he does.

[HeritorA]

Basically that's it. Nothing more except that Ezekiel recognies Cypher.

It's an old old horse. Almost every Cypher apperance has that moment - then main antagonist/protagonist recognies the Cypher. By that point I believe that Cypher simply use face glamour - that everyone at different timelines recognises him

[Angel of Solitude]

Ok so I'll bite on this.

 

I had high hopes for this book, thinking that there would be some new juicy Dark Angels background lore. Alas, that the book is part of the "Space Marine Battles" series should have been enough of a clue. rendingon1+ makes the most valid point: a single command squad fending of MILLIONS! of orks stretches believability somewhat. Likewise, so much writing is devoted to how the inhabitants have had 10,000 years to build the most impregnable defences ever, yet these are easily bypassed by:

 

1. Orks manage to somehow breach one of the mega-impregnable gates

2. They manage to restart the forge foundary contained within this gate

3. In the space of a single melee encounter, they somehow manage to reconfigure the existing design and create 1,000+ bulldozers

4. The bulldozers are then used to create ramps from all of the MILLIONS! of dead orks already slayed.

5. Amazingly, none of the Skitarii / Guardsmen / Dark Angels had any anti-tank weapons that were able to take out the bulldozers

 

The whole flashback thing was probably the most interesting part of the book for two reasons:

 

1. The Lion issuing final orders to Cypher. If the daemon is to be believed, then this strongly suggests that Cypher is ultimately working for the Lion.

2. The scene where they finally find Epimetheus. As I think about it now, it feels like this will be C. Z. Dunn's next literary installment for the Dark Angels.

 

Of course, that pesky Tzeentch Daemon then goes and says that something/nothing/everything he has shown may be or may not be true, which kinda leaves that whole section entirely irrelevant and pointless.

 

Finally, the ending. Uh, what?

 

Ezekiel is told by a daemon that he needs to stay alive because the daemon needs him to be alive. And he complies? He then proceeds to heal to full strength and more in no time at all and lay down a whole load of whoop-ass in a way that he was not able to previously. How can the outgoing Grand Master Librarian not even consider that a daemon is in no way involved? 

 

Or perhaps, the implication of all this is that as a child, Ezekiel was actually possessed by a daemon, but managed to expel it - hence the comments about how nobody could possibly test Ezekiel more than he had already experienced as a child?

 

Finally, the whole bionic eye thing and how that played out. 

There is no way that the precognition ability is due to the eye. Both Ezekiel and Labdon had precognition abilities before they had the eye, so this must be one of the Tzeentch daemon's deliberate falsehoods. Whatever happened in the climax to the battle, Ezekiel must have overpowered the daemon and stripped him of the precognition powers that he first stole.

 

Again, this might support the earlier idea that Ezekiel has already been possessed and fought it off; the Tzeentch daemon tried to possess Ezekiel, but Ezekiel was already resistance, and was able to overpower the daemon at some moment of weakness when it tried to possess him.

 

Anyway, that's my attempt to make some sense of it. 

 

edit: spoiler tag failage.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Angel of Solitude

[HeritorA]

'Finally, the ending. Uh, what?' - exactly!

[Master Ciaphas]

Hail!

 

I managed to finish the novel the other night, so now I can finally give my 2 cents also! As a long time fan of the Dark Angels (they being the reason I started on Warhammer 40k crack some 17 years ago), I found it VERY refreshing to have a different author than Gav Thorpe try his hand at the First Legion.

 

The plot itself - well...it IS a Space Marine Battles book, which does promise for overdone amounts of bolter porn. That said, Eye of Ezekiel was leagues better than the dismal Purging of Kadillus which was penned by Mr. Thorpe. The initial parts of Eye of Ezekiel were actually rather good - even if I did think that the fight against the Necrons was the more interesting one. It seems that the vast majority of the SMB series is Space Marines vs. Orks (or to some extent Chaos). So it does get rather repetitive. As for the odds they are facing, it is actually the entirety of the Dark Angels 5th Company, with fleet support, many-many Mordian & Vostroyan Guardsmen as well as about a century of Skitarii. Further, they are in fortifications, and just going by conventional estimates, being in a fortification means that the odds must be 9:1 in favour of the attacker. And that is just considering human vs. human. Factor in the worth of a Space Marine (where a squad of 10 can almost conquer a planet singlehandedly), I am actually good with the odds of 11 mil. Orks vs. the Imperium.

 

However, I would very much have liked a chapter describing  how the Orks managed to get the manufactorum. It would have been dead easy to throw in a mob of Blood Axe Kommandos beng sneaky and throwing open the gates, allowing the Orks to flood the place. Instead, it just kinda is stated Deus Ex Machina, that the forge city has fallen. Which is a pity.

 

Was the novel good? Yeah, I do not regret buying it. Could it have been better? No doubt! It could have been massively better, but that cannot be taken as me stating that it is poor book! Will I buy the next C.Z. Dunn Dark Angels stuff? Without a doubt!

 

Now I just have to work up the courage to read Mr. Thorpe´s "Azrael" (which I have in its limited edition version) as well as the Legacy of Caliban omnibus. I fear that I will be bitterly disappointed...you all know what they say about hope being the first step...

[HeritorA]

Hail!

 

I managed to finish the novel the other night, so now I can finally give my 2 cents also! As a long time fan of the Dark Angels (they being the reason I started on Warhammer 40k crack some 17 years ago), I found it VERY refreshing to have a different author than Gav Thorpe try his hand at the First Legion.

 

The plot itself - well...it IS a Space Marine Battles book, which does promise for overdone amounts of bolter porn. That said, Eye of Ezekiel was leagues better than the dismal Purging of Kadillus which was penned by Mr. Thorpe. The initial parts of Eye of Ezekiel were actually rather good - even if I did think that the fight against the Necrons was the more interesting one. It seems that the vast majority of the SMB series is Space Marines vs. Orks (or to some extent Chaos). So it does get rather repetitive. As for the odds they are facing, it is actually the entirety of the Dark Angels 5th Company, with fleet support, many-many Mordian & Vostroyan Guardsmen as well as about a century of Skitarii. Further, they are in fortifications, and just going by conventional estimates, being in a fortification means that the odds must be 9:1 in favour of the attacker. And that is just considering human vs. human. Factor in the worth of a Space Marine (where a squad of 10 can almost conquer a planet singlehandedly), I am actually good with the odds of 11 mil. Orks vs. the Imperium.

 

However, I would very much have liked a chapter describing  how the Orks managed to get the manufactorum. It would have been dead easy to throw in a mob of Blood Axe Kommandos beng sneaky and throwing open the gates, allowing the Orks to flood the place. Instead, it just kinda is stated Deus Ex Machina, that the forge city has fallen. Which is a pity.

 

Was the novel good? Yeah, I do not regret buying it. Could it have been better? No doubt! It could have been massively better, but that cannot be taken as me stating that it is poor book! Will I buy the next C.Z. Dunn Dark Angels stuff? Without a doubt!

 

Now I just have to work up the courage to read Mr. Thorpe´s "Azrael" (which I have in its limited edition version) as well as the Legacy of Caliban omnibus. I fear that I will be bitterly disappointed...you all know what they say about hope being the first step...

True, true and true. But still it's one bad book - as was expected from the start. By the way - Azrael not that much better...

[CNitram]

Personally, I enjoyed the read but was bothered by a glaring, no pun intended, oversight by Dunn.

 

In the DA Codex and, more specifically, 'Warlords of the Dark Millennium', Ezekiel is described as "always appearing w/ his command squad where most needed, guided by prophetic visions of the ork attacks".

 

--- The whole daemon sub-plot was so meh, but not as meh as the 'Terminator 2 time travel loop' sequence in the conclusion of The Unforgiven. Seriously, my two favorite legions/chapters are the Dark Angels and Raven Guard and Gav Thorpe has to crap all over them with sub par writing. ADB did a great job with Savage Weapons, and it was only a short story (in addition to the other excellent HH novels he's done).

 

Dunn's depiction of the slaying of Groblonik also failed to mention that "the flaming blade (axe) met the edge of the Librarian's sword and shattered. Shards of the razor-sharp metal slashed into the warlord's face...the slivers seemed to tear out Groblonik's left eye".

 

--- I'm ok with this not being mentioned, tbh.

 

All-in-all. the sub-plot with the AM squad was quite good, as was the Techmarine's character development. I would've liked to see him mentioned more in the epilogue(s). For example, a scene with him being inducted into the DW or RW despite the fact that it isn't normally allowed, for his part in purging the tech-adept and (I'm assuming here) turning over the data slate of the recorded Fallen.

 

For the Lion and the Emperor!

Edited July 11, 2017 by CNitram