Ryltar Thamior Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 At the outset of this whole 'Heresy' business, many of us pretty much thought of the Imperial Army as being little more than a slightly more fancily (or shabbily, dependent upon regiment) dressed 30k equivalent to the modern Imperial Guard. And while it does seem plausible that a reasonable swathe of the Imperial Army DO function in this manner [particularly the Imperialis Militia in a role analogous to 41st millennium 2nd-rate PDF forces]; there's something rather important about the 30k setting as opposed to 40k which fairly immediately suggests some rather important differences of operation.Namely, Marines. Absolute boat-loads of Marines. Hundreds of thousands of them, in fact. As the primary agents of Imperial warfare in a number (although not all) Crusade- and Heresy-era warzones. Now this, in concert with a number of other factors [such as the very name 'Imperialis AUXILIA', and supporting fluff-text about how the formations of the Imperial Army are also geared up to support Astartes warfare] leads me to believe that the Auxilia ought to be used in concert with Space Marine forces - whether on a strategic, or perhaps more rarely, a direct tactical level. I'm therefore adding Imperialis Auxilia detachments to two of my truescaled HH Marine forces for the Inq28ish narrative campaign set in Ultramar that myself and Umbral are running; and looking for some guidance and assistance in shaping my thinking as to how they ought to be equipped and deployed. The easiest of the two groups will probably be the Ultramar Auxilia to go with my upcoming Ultramarines. Easy, at least, in the sense that I'm sure there's a reasonable wealth of material out there from the various Black Books and Black Library materials as to how Mortal forces from the Five Hundred Worlds are optimized to fight alongside their Transhuman masters. And, for that matter, probably even details about specific regiments, their uniforms & heraldry etc. [certainly, a cursory examination of the 40kWiki point's one's attention to a number of units from Calth] I also suspect I'll be taking no shortage of inspiration from StraightSilver's "Macragge PDF" log [which covers a 40k force perhaps broadly analogous to what I'm thinking of here].The more difficult will be the Imperial Army attached to my still-in-progress Loyalist Iron Warriors [which, it should probably be noted, don't have hte resources necessary for traditional Iron Warriors attrition-doctrine], for a number of reasons not limited to the fact that I'm still getting to grips with how they'd best be able to supplement such a force. In general terms, I can see such a force working out in two broad ways: either a largely static heavy-support backstop for the Marines, who use weight of fire, suppression and longer-ranged support weaponry to help make a difference whilst the Astartes themselves get up closer and more personal with the enemy [thanks in no small part to power armour and enhanced constitutions meaning they're better able to take punishment and overcome a frequently-only-human foe close-up]; or a more mobile force which seeks to assault *with* the Astartes, potentially as a distractoin/overwhelm whilst the IVth Legion use their much more limited numbers to strike a much more concentrated and specific part of the enemy line and force a breakthrough. Either way, I guess, it's a support role. Although divided up into either direct/indirect fire or supplementary close-assault. Which leads to additional questioning around TO&E, particularly as applies mobility and any decisions to add vehicles once the combined force gets turned into an actual army. The two main options being to either configure them as more or less light infantry [the idea being that they sneak/infiltrate across no man's land]; or as mech infantry [to roll across the same ground, carrying impressive fire support - Dracosans being quite a delectable tank-masquerading-as-an-IFV if ever there was one :P ...although I've just noticed it's Solar Auxilia only :/ ]. And, from there, supplementary questions as to individual squad equipment [is there a point in either fluff or crunch to adding heavy weapons to units with up-gunned dedicated transports, for instance; or ought these be concentrated into support squads whilst regular squads are used more as a maneuver element with assault weapons]I'm also attempting to work out which miniatures (and thus equipment) to use for both forces. The Iron Warriors-attached Auxilia, I'll probably go with Steel Legion, as the faceless gasmaskness arguably goes quite nicely with the IVth's combat aesthetic - and I've never quite gotten the hang of painting faces, so rather large goggles and other coverings of the face are pretty decent [and the fallschirmjäger look doesn't hurt either]; most likely in an urban-camo pattern of greys and blacks for uniform. [the issue with this being the comparatively light armament of an ordinary lasgun, although the shorter 'carbine' appearance does go nicely with the idea of Mech Infantry, due ot hte confined space of transports and the potentially shorter engagement ranges involved for infantry thanks to swifter mobility and deployment] The Ultramar Auxilia, by contrast, will most likely be composites from a number of kits. StraightSilver's usage of the Forge World Cadian hazardous environment helmets, as well as the mixing of Scout bits with Cadians, all done up in Ultramarines colours is pretty spiffy. Although I'm quite keen to avoid the overall Cadian silhouette [it's much too 'iconic' to that force, and thus M41], which leaves me wondering as to other sources to raid [it's actually a pity the old Metal Cadians aren't back on demand]. Certainly, the incorporation of Militarum Tempestus arms and backpacks would provide a somewhat more high-tech visual distinguishment [even though there are some elements that are arguably too 'gothic' for the 30k milieu], whilst also affording a much 'punchier' weapon than the ordinary lasrifle able to actually engage Marines. [another possibility would be some of the Kasrkin I have sitting around - whihc would bring the same up-gunned individual firepower, and a much less '40k-looking' visual aesthetic into the bargain; at the cost of once again being recognizably ..well .. Cadian]In both cases, the idea will probably be to build up the startings of a platoon to go with the small handfulls of Marines from each Legion. So two squads, a platoon command, one or more support squads, and transports/armour/artillery as necessary. Anyway, having bored you all with the rationale for why I'm asking about this (as well as some of my own thoughts about how the whole thing might work) ... do the mighty minds of B&C have any guidance - from fluff, common sense, crunch, people's own forces or anything else which I might use as guidance when putting together all of the above. 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Ion Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 If you're not against third party bits, the Anvil Industry regiment builder is a great source for custom Auxilia forces imo, easy to fit into a 30k setting. http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Regiments/Regiments-Custom-Squad-Builder Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332263-putting-the-auxilia-back-in-imperialis-auxilia/#findComment-4691705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughingman Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Both Mad robot miniatures and Victoria miniatures have a line of urban warfare looking models that might do the job as well. Personally I like the aesthetic of the Solar Auxilia units, though i can imagine individual regiments might very wildly in appearance, especially outside of the core units from the sol system. Might be worth taking inspiration from more obscure military units from across history. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332263-putting-the-auxilia-back-in-imperialis-auxilia/#findComment-4691738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
apologist Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 The distinction between Auxilia and Militia is an interesting one. To me, these represent two examples of forces within the greater 'Imperial Army', rather than hard-and-fast terms that exclude other possibilities. In short, the vastness of the Imperial Army means that it is potentially very, very diverse and very, very complicated! Forge World, Black Library and Games Workshop have described lots of different human forces, so I think there's a lot of inspiration, and a lot of freedom in how you interpret it. Of course, if you want to use them in a game, and want only to use 'official' rules, then you'll need to make choices on what list to use and what to include; though I always encourage you to discuss things with your mates to see if they're up for choices that more closely fit what you want to use. Ultramarines Oddly enough, I've put together a few models to use as auxiliaries from Calth, which included both Vic Mini's excellent Arcadians: ...and Steel Legion, for the more wintery polar work: In my case, I decided that the Ultramarines' auxilia would be well-trained, but not elite; and well-equipped, but very definitely a support/second-line force – the peacekeeping garrison, rather than the strike forces. This was partly to demonstrate the difference between the humans and transhumans, and also to emphasise that the Astartes are doing the 'heavy lifting'. While Ultramar is well-developed, and has excellent supply lines, I felt that this would be heavily geared towards the Ultramarines themselves. While there may be more elite human warriors within Ultramar, but in gaming terms, I wanted more of a contrast, so my baseline humans are there in numbers – lots of lasguns and very little else. They rely on the Legionaries to do everything. Iron Warriors In terms of Iron Warriors, I'd note that loyalist doesn't necessarily mean they're inherently any more kind-hearted or thoughtful than 'traitors'. While Perturabo is known as the cold-hearted mathematical logistician of the Primarchs, even he was frustrated by the way he was forced to employ his Legion. It's entirely reasonable that an Iron Warrior commander might turn traitor because he wants the freedom to deploy his forces less wastefully; demonstrating his ability to achieve the same results with less loss of life. Similarly, Barbaras Dantioch is an example of a loyalist who doesn't have the least problem with unleashing his auxiliary forces (such as ogryns) in suicidal attacks. Once you get past the idea of goodies and baddies, you open up a great grey area, and that's often where the most interesting ideas lie :) Now, I'll hold my hands up and say that I find the increasing preponderance of tanks in 30k armies boring, and vastly prefer infantry battles. For that reason, I'd thoroughly encourage you to avoid tanks where possible, and stick with the poor bloody infantry. This is particularly the case for a typical Iron Warriors-affiliated Auxilia, who – statistically speaking – are going to be a garrison force headed by a small number of Iron Warriors. A defensive Imperial Militia force would look very cool, and there's a wealth of opportunity in there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332263-putting-the-auxilia-back-in-imperialis-auxilia/#findComment-4691759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
apologist Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 As a couple of examples forces: Barbarossan VIIIth Rifles Intended as a typical Iron Warrior garrison force, the Barbarossan Garrison has been shipped in from Nutelguese, an out-of-sector vassal world of the Iron Warriors, in order to minimise any sympathies with the local populace. They been heavily drilled, to the point of becoming brutalised, by their Iron Warrior lords. They are ruthlessly and mechanically cycled in and out of active duty, and restricted to euphemistic 'safe zones' – that is, where they cannot mingle with the locals – when not on patrol. Using the Imperialis Militia ruleset, they use the Cyber-augmetics and Alchem-jackers Provenances of War, to represent their emulation of the Iron Warriors: slow and steady, cold-hearted and defensively-minded. 1 Force Commander with carapace armour, cyber-familiar, augmented weapon, Planetary Overlord and the Marcher Lord Warlord Trait. 3 Discipline Masters with carapace armour. 1 Imperialis Auxilia Platoon Command Cadre with laslocks 3 Imperialis Militia Infantry Squads with laslocks 1 Imperialis MIlitai Fire Support Squad Calth IVth Militia A typical example of the dedicated defence forces of Ultramar, these soliders appear smartly-turned out and well supplied. Although the name may suggest they are drawn from Calth itself, in truth these forces are led by a core of Calthans bulked out with a hastily-trained intake from the populace of the world coming under Compliance. While the younger or more impressionable intake see the Ultramarines as exemplars to which to aspire, most of the soldiers quickly fall into complacency. Only too aware of their lack of capability in comparison with their masters, the militia work dutifully rather than zealously. Rarely called upon to do more than follow-up after the Ultramarines, the Calth IVth operate as an occupation or militarised police force for urban areas, whose main role is to act as a visible reminder of the Imperium. For this reason, they carry little heavy or support weaponry, instead relying on tried-and-tested small arms and the knowledge the Ultramarines are generally within strike distance. 1 Imperialis Auxilia Platoon Command Cadre with autoguns. 2 Imperilis Militia Infantry Squads with autoguns. One in each squad carries a Vexilla. 2 Inducted Levy Squads with autoguns. One carries a Vexilla. 1 Imperialis Auxilia Medicae Detachment. Iax Special An example of the Vigil Opertii – a specialist secret service that formed an auxiliary part of the Ultramarine Legion – the Iax Special were a dedicated counter-insurgency force, equipped with the best that Valentus Dolor, the Provost-Magistratus could offer. This extended beyond their materiel to their very bodies, many of the service being failed aspirants or early-stage Initiates undergoing specialist training. Using the Imperialis Militia ruleset, they use the Gene-crafted and Advanced Weapons Provenances of War. 1 Force Commander with bolt pistol, power armour, infravisor, Planetary Overlord and the Ruthless Tyrant Warlord Trait. 1 Imperialis Auxilia Platoon Command Cadre with laslocks. The squad rides in a Rhino. 3 Imperialis Militia Grenadier Squads with laslocks. Two in each squad have grenade launchers with frag, krak, gas and fireburst grenades. Each squad rides in a Rhino. 1 Imperilis Militia Reconnaissance Squad with sniper rifles and infravisors. 1 Imperilis Militia Reconnaissance Squad with shotguns. The sergeant carries melta bombs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332263-putting-the-auxilia-back-in-imperialis-auxilia/#findComment-4691801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughingman Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Dig the iax concept, reminds me of how US Navy "late stage" BUDS dropouts sometimes end up in US Navel EOD. side note: Thought you could only take rhinos if you took the survivors of a dark age Provenance of war? Don't have the book in front of me though. edit: its part of the provenance of war Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332263-putting-the-auxilia-back-in-imperialis-auxilia/#findComment-4691831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I do need to get around to picking up some Arcadians, i love the models so much! On topic!My Militia are Traitors attached to my Iron Warriors army and fairly brutally used as part of it. On a strategic level they are used not too dissimilarly to the cult dross the Legion will employ in later years but they are still soldiers, just very unlucky ones Imperial Yellowjackets (Warrior Elite, Feral Warriors)The Yellowjacket Regiments are Skarvia's proudest sons. Always advancing in their distinctive yellow jackets their discipline is legendary across the Exertus Imperialis, indeed they are one of very few Militia grade units not issued Terran discipline masters as their own officers will (often literally) whip them harder than an outsider ever would. With high caste officers directing the masses of underhive scum to glorious death or glory their tactics may be blunt but are often effective and much favoured by Legions IV and X.The training and equipment of a Yellowjacket is focused on one thing, ensuring the Infantry will engage as closely as possible and never back down, swarming superior opponents with guts and weight of numbers. To this end the Regiments issue the Laslock as a standard rifle, Its superior stopping power and limited range both assets in the regiments eyes. Bayonets are permanently affixed to encourage the properly aggressive posture. The Distinctive Yellow Jacket mounts an impressively thick Flak weave and Colours are issued at many levels to ensure morale and direction.Support forces rarely include armoured vehicles but they are extremely fond of artillery of all scales and Skarvian attacks are inevitably preceded by thundering bombardments. The Skarvian medical core is also (surprisingly) extensive, no soldier of the Emperor will die when he might be saved!Pictured, Yellowjacket Honour guard preceeded by drummers.yellowjacket drums by Noserenda, on FlickrPictured, Yellowjacket Earthshaker Artillery Gunners and close protection squad. Also Discipline Officer CreelYellowjacket arty crwe by Noserenda, on FlickrI used Warlord British because im fielding a huuuge horde and they were extremely reasonable in price! They also got a fairly basic paint job in keeping with the horde Aesthetic though i do plan one day to go through and do touch ups on various figures (Hohoho) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332263-putting-the-auxilia-back-in-imperialis-auxilia/#findComment-4692326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryltar Thamior Posted April 22, 2017 Author Share Posted April 22, 2017 Right, so there's some seriously excellent ideas going on in this thread :D I can defiinitely see the strong utility to the various models of Auxilia operation that Apologist has proposed [with lovelily detailed examples for each, no less!]; and Noserenda's Napoleonic-flavouring definitely chimes in rather strongly with how we've seen Imperial Army depicted in the fluff. [which presumably explains why Vostroyans are quite a common regiment to use as a base for this period as well - not least because they remain some beautiful miniatures!] Now, I had some additional thoughts over the previous ... month. The first one is that we've got a few instances of Imperial Army formations which are attached long-term to Astartes forces which may prove instructive. The Iron Hans with their Chainveil are probably the premier example [and I need to do some reading up on their modus operandi beyond what fragmentary mentions occur on Lexicanum -whihc appears to suggest that they're used in a 'combined arms' sense alongside the Iron Hands main, not least as recon and holding troops? ] ; although we also have the Word Bearers bringing quite a hefty number of cults and corrupted "Imperial" Army troops with them to Calth etc. [wherein they appear to be used, both figuratively and literally as sacrifice troops - flooding areas with bodies so the Ultramarines wind up running out of ammunition before the Word Bearers even hit the scene themselves]Also, when going through the Legions in my head, a few further ideas proposed themselves: For instance, the Night Lords might bring with them a force of twisted convicts to just casually unleash on a population as a terror-force. Any number of films which feature dangerous imprisoned convicts suddenly on the loose show the sort of vibe that this would entail. Would be one way for a small-in-number lot of Night Lords to seed an area with living terror-weapons to get things off balance before they arrived. And i've got no doubt hta massed formations of these convict-conscripts would make for admirable 'bait' or distractions. My SS Dirlewangler notes from a few threads back may be of useful inspiration here.The World Eaters might have seriously buff steroid/combat drug enhanced frothing madmen. Whether folk who haven't managed to make it through the augmentation process to become Astartes, or just some twisted creations of a side-project, stick some Nails-analogous stuff in their heads [doesn't have to be actual-nails], and let 'em loose. The template for this would be using some of hte mega-buff Khorne mortal troops from Age of Sigmar, with appropriately 30k'ified armaments. [my buddy Umbral's done some pretty excellent renditions of these for the purpose of acting as Enforcers with his Siege of Vraks chaos militia army - and theyseem to fit in pretty nice alongside his Truescale World Eaters] [in fact, I think Autek Mor might run into something like this on that World Eaters recruiting world they moon-drop out of habitable existence?]The Thousand Sons obivously have their SPireguard, ,but without having properly gone through Inferno, i'm not sure if there's too much attestation for how they operate together in practice?The Raven Guard have the Therion Cohort, although the pattern of use for them in Heresy-era conflict is, as Apologist suggests, an indication that "loyalist" doesn't always mean "nice" [even though Corax had previously seemed something of an exponent of 'combat humanism']. Basically, being used to die in heroic diversionary efforts, draw out other Astartes forces, and that sort of thing. They seemto be pretty bloodied as a result - and there's clearly something off-the-chain/chart heroic about standing and holding in such circumstances despite lacking the enhanced psyche or physiology or armament and equipment of Astartes. And as for the Alpha Legion ... well, one presumes that most of the etime, Imperial Army attached to the Alpha Legion don't even know that's what they're doing [c.f stuff happening in the early part of Legion, for instance]. Although I *do* suspect that they'd maintain a more "special operations" corps of highly talented humans [rather than transhumans] for all sorts of diverse tasks [infiltrators, diplomatic bits and pieces, that character from Liar's Due [which is REALLY one of my favourite depictions of the XXth in action!] - and certainly we have the "operatives" we keen hearing about. Now, like I mentioned in the OP, i've also been casting around for a "look" for my Imperial Army. And I think, after much searching, that i might FINALLY have found the juice!Behold!Not my work, sourced from pinterest and originally from this *excellent* thread over on Dakka. [seriously - take a browse through. There's some *amazing* concepts for different-looking Imperial Guard regiments on there which are adaptable to a 30k context] [Elysians with Space Wolves and Empire bearded heads also llooked pretty interesting - French Foreign Legion analogue could be done with 'em, I suppose? And the Blood Angels death masks also make for an interesting head on his not-quite-Valhallans etc.]Going off the date of the image above being posted [i think it was like 2013?], and some of the WIP images, it appears likely that he's produced the above crests on the helmets using a home-molding process. I'll be not-cheating wildly by simply sourcing the similar crests from teh Heresy-era plastic tactical squads [unsure whether the Mk.IV or the Mk.III will suit better - probably the Mk.IV] and applying them in the manner similar to the above.Combined with the paintscheme from StraightSilver's Macragge PDF, as detailed below, this'll produce a force that's recognizeably associated with the Ultramarines, but both relatively cheap and easy to produce, but importantly not simply carbon-copying the Cadian equipment/silhouette/image - instead having quite a nice overt Classical feel that's very much in keeping with Ultramar all-up. http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af307/MacraggePDF/Macragge%20PDF%20HQ/Macragge%20PDF%20Troops/DSC00621.jpgAlthough as applies rules and things, it's quite possible that I'll go down the Solar Auxilia route rather than the Imperialis Militia list, which would mean working out how to do carapace armour [Kasrkin?], and appropriate equipment [mass flamers or human-scale power-axes for storm sections] etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332263-putting-the-auxilia-back-in-imperialis-auxilia/#findComment-4716532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ikka Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Exo-Lords/Heads-helmets-crests/Spartan-crest http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Exo-Lords/Heads-helmets-crests/Small-Roman-Crest http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Exo-Lords/Heads-helmets-crests/Large-Roman-Crest There's a couple of crests that might work for you unless you have tons lying around already. I've used the Large Roman crests as SM sergeant crests and they work fairly well. Their Regiment section also has some human-sized power axes. I'm using the Regiments stuff for my Imperial Militia to give me some unique looking humans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332263-putting-the-auxilia-back-in-imperialis-auxilia/#findComment-4716579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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