Index Astartes: Grey Talons "Primarized"

[Sete]

"We have always been here. We are farmers, we are shepherds. We are warriors! We drink, we dance and we fight!Long had we lived on these mountains, the land of our forefathers, defending it with our blood. Some things never changes no matter who comes... We always been here, we will always be. We were here when the Sun God faced the Moon Wolf, and we will be here when their sons decide the fate of the stars... We are Dragani, And we have been chosen!"

Dragani Tribe Elder at the start of the "Ascencion" ritual.

 

 

The Grey Talons are rumured to be part of the 13th founding in the early 36th Millenium.

Despite the lack of reliable information, the Chapter gene seed is suspected to be from the White Scars, due to their wild savagery and thirst for war typically found in the sons of the Khan.

 

The Chapter Keep named Herminium Mons, loosely translated into High Gothic as "The Hearth", is situated in the highest mountain range of the feral Planet Ophiussa, situated in the west of Segmentus Pacificus.

 

At this mountainous and rocky planet, lacking in natural resources, the tribes that make this world their home fight each other for survival. These tribal wars tend to be brutal and provides the chapter with hardened recruits used to the realities of war.

 

The chapter recruits from several of the most tough and unyielding tribes.

The coming of the Sons of the Sun God is a event worth of celebration in every tribe visited. These visits to recruit aspirants are well integrated within the tribal culture which calls these events the "Ascension".

Chosen recruits are given a night with a fertile female of their choosing so they can leave their bloodline within the tribe.

 

The chapter seems to have abandoned the Codex Astartes in organisation and disposition, but without further evidence collected by the Imperial institutions it is considered conjecture.

The Grey Talons don't seem use Devastator Squads, or any kind of heavy weaponry in their infantry squads,the heavy support being provided by the chapter vehicles, especially the Predator.

Mobility is key to their engagements, and Tartarus Terminator armour is one of the most prized relics within the chapter.

The Veterans are awarded the Honour of using Terminator armour, and this much revered armour is only used in the direst of situations. This particular style of engagement is called the "Saunion", a thrust to the hearth of the enemy army.

Each company is a self sustained army on its own right, the most experienced battle brothers, leading the squads.

The chapter also as an independent organisation called "Slí An Chroí", under the direct orders of the Chapter Master.

Loosely translated as Body, Mind and Spirit, this organisation brings together the Chaplains, Apothecaries and Librarians, dedicated to the spiritual/physical healing and balance of the battle brothers of the chapter.

They are the adjudicators, lore-keepers, medical professionals and political advisers of the chapter, but much of their practices are secretive even within the chapter.

 

The Chapter also lacks ancient technology using more common vehicles such as the rhinos and predators and whirlwinds, but oddly enough bikes are rarely seen.

Land Speeders are widely used within the chapter as well, being used to a great extent to scout, harass and cut off enemy positions.

 

 

Techmarines skills are highly valued by the chapter, and these brothers rarely see battle.

The warriors of the chapter also carry the skulls of worthy allies fallen in battle so their spirits can take joy in the heat of battle once more.

Often the skulls of fallen battle brothers are taken back to the Chapter Keep, and kept in the Chapel of Bones. Entrance is only permitted to the Chapter Chaplains, and above the chapel door it can be read "We bones that here are, for yours await"...

This chapter tradition is seen with dread outside the chapter, and most Imperial institutions tends to the avoid the chapter due to their terrifying reputation.

They are especially feared by the Imperial Guard, where rumours of this infamous tradition spread like wildfire.

 

Due to their Tribal background the warriors of the chapter are highly superstitious, and adopted several costumes from the tribes of their home planet.

The Librarians tend to focus in the art of divination to better help direct the course of battle, and it is a skill greatly appreciated within the chapter.

 

After battles, enemy skulls are collected, and burnt so their spirits are destroyed, and worthy allies or brothers skulls are taken back to the chapter fortress, and some might be given the Honor of seeing battle again.

 

The Grey Talons space marines prefer Brutal Assault, Close Combat actions.

 

The Chapter seem to split into a number of Battle Companies designed to operate independently. Each has an augmented auxiliary force of Scout Marines for reconnaissance and evaluation of the enemy forces.

 

Some accounts indicate that they seem to have abandoned the Codex Astartes, prescribed symbols and insignia that signify rank and assignment in a Battle Company. In their place, the Battle-Brothers use a wide range of tribal markings, corresponding with their Tribal traditions. This is naught but conjecture, however, as again, the Grey Talons are quite unwilling to discuss the intricacies of their Chapter’s organisation.

 

Only a few intelligible accounts of the Grey Talons exist that tell of the Chapter's very disciplined order of deployment and combat, despite the evidence from casual observers that they are a barbarous and savage Chapter in nature. Their tactical deployments and use of shock-assault tactics is highly reminiscent of the Black Templars. Although these Chapters are diametrically opposed in character, they both tend to display an overriding desire to close with the enemy and shatter their foes in bloody personal combat.

 

The core of their tactics rely on large detachments of mobile Space Marine infantry. In this way, the Grey Talons make use of the bloody prowess of their combat brethren to carry the day in battle. They often endeavour to be the initiator of combat actions and prefer not to fight on the defensive. Tactical operations often begin with a Battle Company using its integrated Scout Marine forces to probe enemy positions and identify weak points and any target with strategic value. Once identified, a preliminary bombardment to weaken the enemy lines is made followed by a complete and overwhelming assault. They may use Drop Pods, Storm Ravens, or teleportation to make these attacks, and the assaulting forces are often a mix of Tactical and Terminator Veterans.

 

Every warrior of the chapter also owns a "faca", a large-bladed fighting and utility knife, occasionally used to settle arguments "of honor". In these situations two warriors will attack each other with slashing attacks to the face, stopping the fight when one of the participants has blood seeping from one facial cut.

 

Many of the Chapter veterans prefer to use Greatswords, which they use to deadly perfection slaying scores of foes in wide arcs.

Some even use cyber falcons to distract and harass the enemies, sometimes making them miss deadly blows or even forcing them into the path of one...

 

The gene-seed of the Grey Talons appeared to be stable and displays no aberration or mutation.

 

"Desperta Ferro" is the warcry used by the chapter warriors, which loosely translates into "Awaken Iron" and they do so before charging into battle, Its a call to invoke the armour and weapons machine spirits, symbolising that battle will be joined.

 

With the return of Primarch Guilliman, came the Primaris Space Marines.

The Grey Talons did not received any reinforcement except the visit of a lone Adeptus Custodes with the secrets of the creation of these new breed of warriors.

 

The matter was long debated within the higher echelons of the chapter.

Reluctantly a decision was made...

New recruits would undergo the new Primaris transformation, and they would spearhead the chapter in this new Dark Millennium.

 

But whispers of the Rubicon Primaris reached the far corners of the Segmentum Pacificus...

It seems a new age was ushered for all Space Marines...

Edited December 16, 2018 by Sete

[bloodhound23]

Hi, Sete-

 

I really like the feel of your chapter. There are not many WS successors, and I think that their independent streak makes them good candidates for IA's.

 

Just a few thoughts:

 

1. If they eschew both heavy weapons as well as Predators, where is the firepower coming from? Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders?

 

2. I'm worried your bit about veteran mk IV armor styles might be overly restrictive without being more specific. You mention that it is symbolic of a reward that has a long tradition, but you don't say what tradition. If you have one, or you think you could write one that adds more to the feel of your chapter (perhaps by being linked to a conflict you could talk about and incorporate in your models somehow), then by all means, keep it. But otherwise, I feel like you might set yourself up limitations for how you model your sergeants without getting much in return. Moreover, I think it's controversial as to how common armor marks besides 7 are in later founding chapters, given that they are so rare even in the first founding chapters. There are ways around this, I believe, but I think it requires a lot of conceptual work so that it doesn't seem too convenient, like they happen to get access to a forge world or something.

 

3. I would be interested in more emphasis on what (besides the greatswords and lack of heavy weapons) distinguishes your chapter from its parent chapter. Perhaps more details about the Slí An Chroí?

[Sete]

Hi, Sete-

 

I really like the feel of your chapter. There are not many WS successors, and I think that their independent streak makes them good candidates for IA's.

 

Just a few thoughts:

 

1. If they eschew both heavy weapons as well as Predators, where is the firepower coming from? Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders?

 

2. I'm worried your bit about veteran mk IV armor styles might be overly restrictive without being more specific. You mention that it is symbolic of a reward that has a long tradition, but you don't say what tradition. If you have one, or you think you could write one that adds more to the feel of your chapter (perhaps by being linked to a conflict you could talk about and incorporate in your models somehow), then by all means, keep it. But otherwise, I feel like you might set yourself up limitations for how you model your sergeants without getting much in return. Moreover, I think it's controversial as to how common armor marks besides 7 are in later founding chapters, given that they are so rare even in the first founding chapters. There are ways around this, I believe, but I think it requires a lot of conceptual work so that it doesn't seem too convenient, like they happen to get access to a forge world or something.

 

3. I would be interested in more emphasis on what (besides the greatswords and lack of heavy weapons) distinguishes your chapter from its parent chapter. Perhaps more details about the Slí An Chroí?

Just heavy weapons they do use predators as main heavy support, need to word better my intentions.

Im not sure about that MK4 thing aswell still thinking on it, in retrospective looks a bit silly, might had some inspiration on red scorpions.

Well they dont use bikes as much, need to put that in, and yes need more into the Sli an Chroi.

Gonna go for a druid/shaman vibe.

[Badass_Spaz]

First off, hats off to you for giving your Marines something to do besides mauling and blasting their enemies apart. After a long day of curb stomping Eldar and hucking Tyranids into blenders, some falconry sounds rather relaxing. In the mountains with the natives and battle brothers, sending the falcons out to get tonights dinner... Okay, maybe not exactly like that but you probably get the gist.

ANYWAY! When I read brutal assaults, Flesh Terrors and Space Wolves riding Space Wolves comes to mind. Brutal assaults, personally, implies promethium flamers, land raiders mulching infantry in their tracks- genuinely brutal, nerve rattling offensives. Have assault squads tucked inside Rhino's, and while the (I'm hoping) fortified rhino is bulldozing through enemy lines, Assault Marines jet pack out in mid-ride as designated butcher/janitor crew.

So when you say brutal assaults, people like me are inclined to ask for a touch more elaboration. Nothing towards you but as we've established, I enjoy reading about legitimately fearsome Marines and why they're so inherently savage.

Something about lacking heavy weapons just sounds bizarre, especially when it concerns Astarte's. Shock and awe tactics are their bread and butter, that's why it's universally believed the Chainsword is the stealthiest weapon. (No one will hear you over its revving engine.)
An influx of Assault Marines as oppose to Devastator's might be more applicable as oppose to simply not having said weapons. In boarding actions or fortress defenses, a few Marines will regret declining those heavy bolters when said heavy bolter would be ideal for that certain choke. HOWEVER! I could be wrong on this matter. This is just food for thought and my own personal perspective.

Have you ever played Final Fantasy XI? You know, the one with that guy with a sword bigger then him. How about you take that ridiculous Buster Sword, throw a power generator on it, and hand it out to your veterans. The rest just falls into place.

Carrying your former battle-brothers skulls into bloody crucibles of war so they can share the glory? My god, not only have you ascended the ladder of metal but bromance, as well. I can see veterans and squad leaders with chains decked with skulls clattering about, bashing some mutants skull in, and smearing the skulls with blood. "That was for you, T'chek." The Salamnders envy you, Khârn the Betrayer salutes you, and bromance lives on into the grimdark universe!

Aspirants getting a bit of booty before leaving to be Space Marines. First the bromance now this... I can officially say I'm as emotionally invested in your Chapter as I am in my own. The White Scar who help found this Chapter probably wanted the best for his men, and by the Emperor's perfectly sculpted butt cheeks, you've created something extraordinary. I will gladly fight the man in mortal kombat who questions aspirants getting some booty.

[Sete]

Uff not SW riding literal SW!

 

Like any WS i don't want to be compared to them!

Brutal Assault in more of a Space Shark way.

Sudden and Overwhelming, rip and tear ;)

I'll try to elaborate more on that later.

 

They are offensive by nature. They don't like to stand around defending points. Heavy weapons limit their mobility, and like every Ws they gotta go fast.

 

Eh, na Greatswords are enough. Lets not fall into exaggeration ;)

 

What can I say about skull collecting. It's a hobby xD

Took inspiration from a Celt trib, where they used the skulls of ancestors or tribesmen to watch over their house and lands. (If i recall correctly)

 

And aspirants need to leave that strong bloodline behind.

 

Boys need to grow up looking up to the stars, wanting to join the ultimate battle. ;)

Edited March 23, 2017 by Sete

[Kelborn]

You've done well, Sete.

 

I especially like the phrase that initiates are allowed to share a night with a lady in order to keep their potential within the tribes bloodpool. But aren't most of the Astartes initiates about 7-13 years old or something like that? If I remember it correctly they are really young.

 

Before you've mentioned them, I was thinking of the BTs as well. ^^ No heavy weapons instead of tanks, brutal assault, squads, led by veterans.

 

If they wouldn't have the tribal, savage theme, they'd be a good BT successor. ;)

 

Overall, I'm liking your concept. Gives a good variation to the White Scars' pool of successors. Are they using "normal, medieval-ish" greatswords or more dao-ish ones?

[Dizzyeye01]

I remember there being talks of a chapter in the Liber that had it's homeworld destroyed but managed to a fair size of it's population. Due to this, they actually conducted the population to working as serfs and such however during training and such they would train both males and females into being warriors with the females eventually being impregnated with DNA from the strongest warriors of the chapter in an attempt to produce the strongest recruits and keep the purity needed. I can't remember all the details however it could be something that you could adapt for the Grey Talons perhaps if you're wanting to run along with the idea of keeping strong bloodlines?

 

Edit: Here is the IA I was talking about.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Dizzyeye

[Sete]

Well, i was assuming SM initiates would be entering their teenager years. So in my head it makes sense for strong candidates to leave their genetic traits behind.

 

The no heavy weapons stuff actually came from HH WS. If they move their full movement they get some bonus.

They gotta go fast.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Sete

[Badass_Spaz]

Something miscellaneous but have you considered integrating a certain close-quarters style Gray Talons might use? For instance, those who use the great swords might take a certain stance in duels or use an already existing swordplay from one of our own cultures. I know it's a little mundane but the thought came to mind and I figured it'd be something of interest down the road.

FORCE FEEDING YOUR BRAIN!

[Sete]

It's a great idea actually and it had crossed my mind.

 

There is a late medieval fighting style with Longswords (or "montante" in the Iberian peninsula) that i like: this particular style is the Portuguese one.

 

 

A bit of story from the guy who wrote this particular treatise.

 

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Diogo_Gomes_de_Figueyredo

 

If you guys don't think that's awesome you should evaluate your life choices seriously

Edited March 25, 2017 by Sete

[Draakur]

Hail, brother!

 

I like your Chapter! It'd be odd if I didn't, given how much ours have in common :p We still differ in some major and defining ways, though. Interested to see where you go next :) Some thoughts!

 

- You have a fairly thorough outline here, with a lot of angles covered, but I can't help but notice you've done what I pretty much always do - told us a lot about who they are now and how they behave currently, but not why that is, or how they got here. Are you going to expand on their history some time soon?

 

- The great sword seems a little at odds with such a speed focused Chapter. Or have I misunderstood here and they're less about speed and more brutal shock assault?

 

- The war cry, also, seems incongruous, since they seem to have almost no technological leanings or interests. It seems odd that something as significant as a Chapter's warcry, that they use before every battle, forever, seems related to interacting with their technology rather than something characteristic of their beliefs or attitudes or combat style. Might be missing something here but this just seems off to me

 

- Sedond wanting to hear more about the Sli An Chroi!

[Sete]

Hail, brother!

 

I like your Chapter! It'd be odd if I didn't, given how much ours have in common We still differ in some major and defining ways, though. Interested to see where you go next Some thoughts!

 

- You have a fairly thorough outline here, with a lot of angles covered, but I can't help but notice you've done what I pretty much always do - told us a lot about who they are now and how they behave currently, but not why that is, or how they got here. Are you going to expand on their history some time soon?

 

- The great sword seems a little at odds with such a speed focused Chapter. Or have I misunderstood here and they're less about speed and more brutal shock assault?

 

- The war cry, also, seems incongruous, since they seem to have almost no technological leanings or interests. It seems odd that something as significant as a Chapter's warcry, that they use before every battle, forever, seems related to interacting with their technology rather than something characteristic of their beliefs or attitudes or combat style. Might be missing something here but this just seems off to me

 

- Sedond wanting to hear more about the Sli An Chroi!

Hey man thanks for the feedback.

I will try to explain the reasoning.

 

Actually Im not that into detailing the history of the chapter, its has the basic outline, behaviour, warfare methods, and they all kinda go with the WS way of war or the world culture they hail from.

 

Like the videos i shown, a greatsword in the hands of a superhuman Astartes using those methods provides a very fast sword play, And yes they are more brutal close combat assault than speed. 

In the HH WS rites of war they are limited on the heavy support units, and thats a thing that i wanted to do with devastators. they are an offensive chapter, they dont care about holding ground that much. heavy weapons in infantry squads would defeat that purpose.

 

The warcry is inspired, on ancient Almogavars war cry, to intimidate the enemy, and since they are superstitious, its a thing they do for intimidation and lets say good luck.

If i am not mistaken, warriors honour their weapons and armours machine spirits, this is their way.

 

I really need to develop that xD not sure how tho xD need a bit of reading 

Edited March 25, 2017 by Sete

[Draakur]

Re: the history, my experience with trying to leave that has been mostly negative, people will often suggest you have an incomplete IA without some background there... But your job is hardly to please others of course, and if you're happy with it that is all that matters in the end :)

 

Yep gotcha with the fighting style. Watched more videos, looks legit :)

 

I never actually mentioned heavy weapons, brother :p My Chapter operates the same as yours in this regard, I have no problem with this.

 

Yea I understand the concept behind the warcry, wasn't taking issue with that. Honouring your weapons and armour and preparing them for war does make sense I guess yes, and in the context of that purpose, this feels better to me. Maybe instead of noting it as a "warcry", you could say they do that instead? It's just not really a warcry in the traditional sense is what I'm getting at, I think.

[Sete]

I will add some bits, like a relic, or symbols, but overall i wont dwelve on campaigns and stuff

[Sete]

Well i think I'm done with this.

Don't intend to carry it further. Don't really have much more to write.

Maybe I'll do the brotherhood of angels challenge and do a champion for my Armaggedon Kill Team.

[Badass_Spaz]

Wait wait wait, are you giving up on the Chapter or is it simply finished until a few more idea's pop into your noggin?

[Sete]

I need more ideas. The basic outline for the chapter is done. :D

[Ferrus Manus]

How come you've picked the 13th Founding? Practically every chapter from that founding was lost or destroyed, hence its title of "dark." How has your chapter has avoided all the issues associated with that event? Edited March 27, 2017 by Ferrus Manus

[Sete]

One of the many Space Marine Chapter Foundings since the Legions were created for the Great Crusade. Out of all the Foundings, the 13th Founding is the only one in which the Adeptus Terra doesn't possess any of the gene-seed from the founded Chapters. In what can only be called some of the worst record-keeping in the Imperium (which is no mean feat for the Administratum), the details of the Founding are all but lost; consequently, it is known as the Dark Founding.

Only two chapters have been confirmed to derive from this founding: the Exorcists and the Death Spectres. However, it is all but certain that numerous other Chapters were made at this time, but there are no records that can confirm exactly how many were formed, let alone give a list of their names and parent Chapters

[Sete]

It's the Dark not cursed founding.

It will give me the flexibility to do whatever i want with them in the future xD

[LancsHotpot90]

Well brother I hope you do carry this on, this chapter has a great background and I would love to see some minis painted up!

[Sete]

Well brother I hope you do carry this on, this chapter has a great background and I would love to see some minis painted up!

Ordered today wolf lord krom to use the cape as a conversion for my Captain.

I will eventually expand on the lore, but i need some inspiration first :) more reading to do!

[Doctor Perils]

Ok then, here's my preliminary remarks I want to make, in the order I noticed them. As always, these comments are meant to help you, so even if I haven't made a good job of getting a neutral tone across, I'm just trying to make constructive criticism :) I haven't read any of the other comments yet, so don't be surprised if I repeat or disagree with previous ones.

1. Place the colour scheme (at least a small version of it) near the top, along with at least a sketch of their emblem - this will give the reader a visual identity from the onset, reinforcing their image when reading the rest of the article.
2. Add a title to the post, even if the full thread has a title too.
3. Put the bulletpoint items at the beginning (which progenitor, which founding, which homeworld, which prefered combat doctrine etc.)
4. Use BBCode headings to break up the wall of text:

   [basicheader=black]text[/basicheader]

5. If you wish, you can also break up major parts (ie "Origins") into several constituent parts with bold titles (ie "Founding", "Battle at Traitor's Gorge" etc.)
6. Make a distinct "introduction" before the beginning of the "Origins" section - this will help give the reader a quick feel about the chapter before plunging in in the deep end
7. Reading Scars, I really don't get the "wild savagery" vibe from the White Scars, more of the "warrior-poet" trope, so you may want to rephrase this a bit - the emphasis is instead on speed, so the lack of bikes in the chapter is interesting
8. High Gothic is the 40k equivalent of Latin, not English: as such, Herminium Mons is High Gothic, the Hearth is Low Gothic
9. The description of the homeworld is of secondary importance to the heart of the chapter's soul, which should be put forward in the "Origins" section - place parts of the description of the homeworld that are directly relevent to the chapter's history in the Origins section first though, because a reader should be able to read the Origins section on its own before the rest of the article (I actually prefer the term "History" to the term "Origins" as the Origins section generally contain much more then the foundation of a chapter, but that's up to you
10. Introduce the reasons of any deviations from the codex astartes before the description of these deviations - these should be an important part of the Origins section, as they should be integral to the soul of the chapter
11. Describe how this chapter can have such important relics as suits of Tartaros armour, they are after all a relatively young chapter (when compared to 1st/2nd/3rd foundings)
12. "the much revered armour is only used in the forest of situations" ? I suppose auto-correct for "most dire"?
13. Use Italics for terms in a different language (Saunion and Sli An Chroi for instance), but keep the use of these terms to the bare minimum - give an english translation for them too
14. when you say they lack ancient technology, do you mean no Land Raiders basically?
15. "Customs", not "Costumes" (unless they wear brightly coloured robes and funny hats...)
16. You mention several times that the chapter has (or may have) abandoned the Codex Astartes, but you don't explain why. This is of utmost importance when creating a codex-deviant chapter, as it is not seen well by outsiders. Remember that even White Scars, Iron Hands and Salamanders are considered (broadly) codex-adherent, and they are first founding chapters!
17. In what sense is the Grey Talons' character opposed to that of the Black Templar?
18. If they are so enamoured of mobility, why no more use of Rhinos to make them Mechanised Infantry?
19. In the Honour fights section, you repeat the term "attack" and omit that they attack each other (even though it's implied, they could both be attacking enemies, and the largest tally wins the fight)
20. Where does this love of greatswords come from ? Have you got an out-of-universe inspiration for this idea?

Not a bad start on the whole, but I'm struggling to get a feel for this chapter's "central theme", one that can be summed up in a couple of words (a sentence maximum) - similar to how the Space Wolves are "Werewolf vikings in space" and the Blood Angels are "Renaissance Vampires in space". If you haven't got one yet, view this as a quick exercise that can help you refine the idea of the chapter: once you get a theme you like, write it down, at least in your notebook or word document, just so you don't lose it. If you want, you can also add this theme at the end of the intro to the article (in spoilers for instance)

 

Good luck and enjoy the Iron Gauntlet :)

[Sete]

Ok let's see:

Since the first 6 is about presentation I'll skip them! Thanks for the suggestions I'll try to improve when I'm not feeling lazy :D

 

7-As a reader you get a different vibe from what is presented about them in universe.

WAS were always compared to SW, barbarians and stuff despite their obvious differences.

 

8-Herminius Mons is their tribal dialect but I'll correct it.

 

9-Presentation I'll get to it :)

 

10- Well WAS always had that independent streak upon them, i just rolled with that, i don't spoon feed the readers.

[Sete]

Also frikkin Autocorrect! It does not help me at all!