Index Astartes: Grey Talons "Primarized"

[Draakur]

Is it fair to say, Sete, that you're not actually looking for criticism on this Chapter?

[Sete]

Its fair to criticize. But i don't think i need to explain every detail of the chapter?

 

For example Thorn was asking for a theme, like space Roman, or space vampire. It's a thing i didn't aim to do.

They are space marines with a tribal influence from their homeworld.

 

Sorry if they aren't bombastic

[Sete]

So far the only deviations are they don't use Heavy Support Squads, and don't use the normal symbols for Tactical and Assault Squads.

Maybe they actually follow the codex and just deviate a bit.

 

I tried to make an outsider point of view of the chapter, to keep it a bit misterious, and i did change the warcry after criticism.

[Draakur]

Sure, I understand all that. You don't owe anyone anything, and it's up to you at the end of the day how you want to create your Chapter.

 

Perhaps I should word it differently - you appear to have decided, completely and in full, who your Chapter is. You're not actually looking for advice or suggestions on how to change them at this point, are you? You've already made up your mind and don't feel they need any work from here on out, and are maybe more interested in formatting etc ideas, correct?

Edited March 31, 2017 by Draakur

[Sete]

I will actually add some stuff. Thorn raised good points.

Where did the love from great swords came from?

And in retrospective, i will also change the Tartarus armour bit, makes little sense.

 

It's always a W.I.P subject to change. I just won't explain every little detail about the chapter,maybe because i don't have answers. It will come with time!

[Doctor Perils]

Ok let's see:

Since the first 6 is about presentation I'll skip them! Thanks for the suggestions I'll try to improve when I'm not feeling lazy

 

7-As a reader you get a different vibe from what is presented about them in universe.

WAS were always compared to SW, barbarians and stuff despite their obvious differences.

 

...

17- Well BT are zealous maniacs. I think that one is self explanatory

 

18-Dont think i need to go into detail there, they don't walk across battlefields

 

...

 

20-It comes from my love of Greatswords. XD

Also why not? It's the preferred weapon of the tribes in that world for example.

 

In fairness, in the hunt for Voldorius (iirc), the White Scars also have a very poetic side to them - when viewed from within the chapter they aren't that barbaric, but that doesn't mean your guys can't be :)

For the BT/GT dichotomy, that's a fair enough difference, but I don't think it would hurt to actually spell it out to the reader, to make sure he get's why they're that different

For the Rhinos, it actually would be better to say that they employ mechanised/mounted infantry tactics, because the way I'd read it they do walk across the battlefield, hence why I mentioned it :P You don't need much detail, just say that the employ Rhinos to get across the battlefield fast, as it isn't all that clear at the moment

A love of greatswords is definitely a good enough out of universe reason for it, and I can't see any reason why not - however, I think it would add to the character of the chapter that you add a small explanation of why they like greatswords so much - it can be as simple as the tribal homeworld they come from is a bit like the scottish highlands and these swords are power-claymores, or they could also come from having fought alongside Dark Angels or Black Templars (and/or successors thereof) who wielded these great swords. (ie: when I ask "Why great swords?" I don't mean it's a bad idea, I mean give a bit more backstory in the article to give them a bit more soul ^^)

 

I'll get to the theme in the next part :)

 

 

added quote from previous post:

I'm not looking for a theme in particular, despite looking for inspiration on Celtiberan tribes and their way of wage war.

I tried themes before and never got a result that i liked, so i went for a vannila theme.

It's intended the lack of central theme. I don't want "oh it's SW with a different name, or Blue blood angels."

For example Thorn was asking for a theme, like space Roman, or space vampire. It's a thing i didn't aim to do.

They are space marines with a tribal influence from their homeworld.

 

Sorry if they aren't bombastic and don't have wet leopard growls .

 

There are just things that i wont do.

And I also don't want to add things out of character just to make it cool.

I think you may have misunderstood what I meant about giving them a theme (I'll work on the way I express that :) ) - I'm definitely not saying to give them stuff that is out of character! Quite the contrary! I was trying to suggest that you cristalize the central character that you want them to have, ie "space marines with a tribal influence from their homeworld" is already a pretty good theme. Definitely don't give them a theme that copies from another chapter like "Blue blood angels"

You mentioned Celtiberian tribes. I have to admit I don't know that much about them, but did they possibly use stuff like falcata? Is this the inspiration for the knives they use? Also, Celtiberians probably didn't have greatswords, but the later spanish did have montantes and espadons, which you could integrate in some way into the homeworld's backstory (perhaps one of the nation's is more advanced? perhaps there are a few cities that are surrounded by mountains where the major part of the tribesmen live?) - perhaps the barbaric Visigoths could be another part of the inspiration? That's the sort of thing I'm thinking of for themes

 

So far the only deviations are they don't use Heavy Support Squads, and don't use the normal symbols for Tactical and Assault Squads.

Maybe they actually follow the codex and just deviate a bit.

 

I tried to make an outsider point of view of the chapter, to keep it a bit misterious, and i did change the warcry after criticism.

That's fair enough - If you don't want to delve too deeply into the past of the chapter to keep stuff mysterious that's fine: I just thought that giving any deviations a fluff reason would give the character of the chapter more depth. Perhaps the Grey Talons used to use Heavy Support Squads/Devastators, until the Battle of Bluefire pass where a large contingent of a company were wiped out because their devastator elements weren't mobile enough and the rest of the company had to fall back to try and protect the heavy gunners, where they could otherwise have fled more easily through the mountains?

 

And in retrospective, i will also change the Tartarus armour bit, makes little sense.

I think Tartaros Armour can be explained, and it would then make sense. Perhaps the first company one of the 2nd founding chapters (for instance, Marauders, or the Aurora Chapter) were once saved by the Grey Talons, and they gifted the Grey Talons with their small stock of Tartaros plate that had not been used since the Heresy as it did not fit their style of warfare? (In this case, I'd recommend against the "lost space hulk" or "reclaimed from traitor forces" routes)

[Sete]

Another good post Thorn.

I will wait to see if IC can use Tartaros and leave it to the Chapter Master and Honour Guard!

 

I thought about Falcatas, but the Romans also copied the Gladius Hispanienses from them.

I thought about using Gladius, but later i decided to go for Greatswords, despite being from a later era History wise :). But yeah I will certainly connect it to tribal warfare.

 

I will go into more detail on the mechanised infantry since that what i was aiming for, also great excuse to use stormlance formation ;)

 

The theme is a tricky one.

It's a mix of several things.

 

First Celtiberans, for tribal headhunting, druidism, but i think the main way of waging war is from the Germanic tribes that installed themselves in the Iberian peninsula, (thanks to that i have lovely green eyes)

Celtiberans were ambush experts, the Germanic were more "Savage" in battle.

 

Also took the warcry from the Almogharvs, cause i thought it was cool, and the greatsword fighting from a Portuguese noble from the Renaissance.

 

It's a bit of a mix and I'm trying to fit it all in one theme.

 

This weekend with a bit of time i shall expand on those aspects!

 

My apologies if i came across as distance and alof, its been a long week and I'm feeling a tired :)

[Doctor Perils]

"Iberian barbarians in space" then? ^^

[Sete]

Kind of

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

...and the much revered armor is only used in the forest of situations.

 

I have a hunch you mean ‘direst of situations.’

 

dedicated to the spiritual/physical heal and balance of the battle brothers of the chapter.

 

Did you mean ‘healing’ or ‘health’ instead of ‘heal?

 

Given your chapter prefers lightning strikes (even more than normal) why do they lack bikes? Is this something that will be expounded upon later? I am pretty sure they are standard issue for chapters (indeed, the codex states that scouts are used as mounted cavalry in the last stage of training). Especially as they are a White Scar successor, as I imagine they could petition their parent chapter for some.

 

The skulltaking gives character, along with the belief spirits still reside inside the skulls. Will a piece of wargear exclusive to the chapter/a chapter relic/both be skulls of fallen brothers/an old I chapter master or captain? Would be pretty fluffy and act somewhat like the raven skull of Korvaad in mechanics. I also like how this keeps them separate from other Imperial institutions, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this brought Inquisitorial scrutiny on them.

 

[Legionare]

Slí An Chroí is an truly fascinating idea, uniting the chaplains, librarians and apothecarys to single organisation that is seperate from the rest of the chapter, is an interesting idea. One thing to consider however is that if that organisation becames corrupted the whole chapter is likely to follow or even destroyed because of the lack of apothecaries, bur that is the risk that comes with uniting those positions in to one organisation.

 

Not that i dislike that, just a thing to consider. Also are you planning on modelling some of those veterans, that prefer greatswords, that sounds like it would make very cool miniatures!

 

Could you also explain a little more about those "cyber falcons" that some of the marines use? Are they line just mechanical falcons?

Edited May 17, 2017 by Legionare

[Brother Emund]

The Veterans are awarded the Honour of using Terminator armour, and the much revered armour is only used in the forest of situations.

 

How many Veterans do you have in your Chapter? What makes a veteran? Do you mean that they only use Terminators in forest fighting? This confused me... but that is not difficult to do!

[Sete]

Awwww :cuss forgot about this Edited May 20, 2017 by Sete

[Bjorn Firewalker]

As the Imperium destroyed its records on the 13th Founding, you should say the Chapter is "rumored to be" part of that Founding- maybe because the Talons were first seen in battle in the years that Founding took place- instead of saying it is. The latter statement will draw the Inquisition's attention- NOT something any sane person will want.

[Sete]

So after a few months of hiatus, with the Primaris and all those shenanigans, I decided to have a look at my DiY chapter. By far the one I have spent most time fiddling with, and I feel I have a thing rolling here. Updated the file with a few more details.

 

So to answer your questions and suggestions:

(Well you guys have some hard questions!)

 

Typos aside, why do they lack bikes?

Well you know how SW don't like teleportation?

Since Ophiussa (home planet) has a rough mountainus landscape they like to have their feet on the ground when engaging the enemy ;)

They have some bikes, but they don't use them. It's a superstition thing.

 

The skulls used are from the fallen in campaign, and if the marine in question was a close brother in arms, he can petition the chaplain to use it in other battles. He will keep his fallen battle bro skull in his chambers when not in campaign until returned to the Chapel of Bones to join the rest of the chapter.

 

 

The purpose of the Sli An Chroi is based on druid/shaman culture. Secretive but they police each other.

Cyber falcons, are well kinda like the ones you read about in the lore.

 

The forest thing is just a typo lol.

How many veterans? I dunno man a few :D

 

Also might chance the colour scheme a bit. Black and Grey.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Sete

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Bearing an honored battle-brother's skull in combat is an appropriate touch. To make this gesture one of respect towards the skull's original owner (instead of the skull-bearer's pride, as seen when a Crimson Fists Sergeant has a bandoleer of Ork skulls), the skull-bearer should swear before the Chaplain that he would honor the deceased battle-brother, and ask the deceased (the skull's original owner) to bear witness as he avenged the fallen.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

How are the skulls of honored battle-brothers carried into battle? Mounted atop a Marine's backpack? Suspended from a chain, and worn at the neck?

 

One idea I had for a story (unrelated to WH40K) was to use the skull as the pommel of a sword or other melee weapon. Will that work if the skull was reinforced against shock damage (via pummeling, i.e., what pommels were used for in real-world battles), maybe by coating it in adamantium or transmuting the bone into solid ceramite?

Edited September 6, 2017 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Sete]

My idea was coated in metal.

Top of the backpack seems a great place tbh.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

My idea was coated in metal.

In gold, silver, chrome (as a 'Mad Max: Fury Road' reference), or adamantium? Edited September 6, 2017 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Sete]

Adamantium, so it does not break easily in battle ;)

[Sete]

So I'm gonna be updating this for the new Dark Millennium.

 

Aernus stood at the edge of the precipice.

His eyes were close, and he took a deep breath, welcoming the cold sea air.

At a distance the shouts and screams were drowned by the roaring sound of the waves and wind.

 

"I see that your head is still on your shoulders! I would expect it to be adorning a Warboss pole by now!"

 

Aernus smirked.

 

"And I see you still have that terrible sense of humour"

 

Aernus turned to face the new arrival.

He was broad and tall, even for an astartes.

His mischievous blues eyes were highlighted by his dark skin, his genetic legacy from the southern jungles where his tribe originated.

 

"Arco, it has been a long time..."

 

"Yes it has Brother, yes it has..."

 

Arco extended his hand and clasped Aernus foreharm.

 

"Although you are late brother"

 

"The return trough the underworld was slow, it's currents treacherous. Neto's light could barely be seen..."

 

Aernus turned back to the sea taking another deep breath.

 

"How many?" Aernus asked

 

"2 from your tribe, 19 total."

 

"Not a bad "Ascension"."

 

" No it's not, but the tribal wars were particularly... brutal, and the Sli An Chroi are worried about blood cults..."

 

Aernus gave no answer.

If corruption was found whole tribes would be purged, and the chapter recruitment would suffer.

 

"Worry not brother.

The Great Maw influence runs long, it might even reached us here at the edge of the galaxy.

Winter will cool down the fires of war and the chapter has supplied food and drink to the tribes to avoid raiding for the time being."

 

"An unusual decision..."

 

Arco gave a booming laughter.

 

"Well it seems to me we are living in unusual times.

Come brother, the festivities are close to finished, and it's a long way to the "Hearth".

I even got you some firewater for the trip!"

 

Aernus smiled and started moving towards the village.

" Well let's go then, best not keep Lord Endovel waiting."

 

" I hope you put a good word for me with Endovel" said Arco, accompanying him.

 

Now it was the time for Aernus to laugh out loud.

 

"Yes brother Arco, I asked the Wolves for a skald just to sing your deeds to our Lord ."

 

Arco gave out another booming laugh and slapped Aernus on the shoulder.

" Ah I would like that! That and one of their axes!"

 

" I'm not surprised, you were always one for flamboyance." Said Aernus slyly.

 

Arco now laughed with tears on his eyes.

Not a common sight for a Space Marine, but Arco was anything but common.

He was still laughing when they passed by the village gate.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Sete

[Sete]

What's up dudes!

 

Minor update.

With the new codex and DiY CT soon to be releases I decided that this chapter, as a white scar sucessor chapter, would go for Tactical Withdrawal, and Whirlwind of Rage as chapter tactics.

 

This perfectly shows their WS ancestry and their bloodthirsty reputation!

[Brother Lunkhead]

Hail Brother Sete'

 

Thanks for the update. It's given me a chance to take a first look at your Grey Talons. I like what I see

 

Kudos for refusing to be pigeonholed to a particular theme (Viking, Greco-Roman, etc.). This gives your chapter a much more organic personality. You also seemed to have thought out most aspects of your chapter before posting. That's good too.

 

Preference of Land Speeders over bikes makes sense. Bikes are cool and have their use, but are limited by terrain..... and that brings me to one exception I take in your overall organization, lack of Heavy Weapons Squads. Tanks and other vehicle mounted heavy weapons platforms are great, but like bikes, are limited by terrain. Now, I can see eschewing Devestator Squads in your battle companies for more tactical and/or assault squads. But having some sort of infantry based fire support element is very flexible and not as limited by terrain as armor is. Perhaps limiting Fire Support Squads to the reserves could work.

 

As always, these are just suggestions. It's your chapter and you should proceed as you see fit. Looks very promising and I hope to see more of your Grey Talons in the near future

[Sete]

Hello! Thanks for the kind words! I have been working on the chapter for a while now.

 

Obviously this was written when the primaris weren't a thing, now I have to rethink some aspects of the chapter.

I wanted to break free, like the Mantis Warriors, from the White Scars and bikes mold. While the WS and Mongol inspired, and on their riding prowess, I went for Ancient Iberia and guerrilla tactics but also with the renaissance "Montante" or greatsword martial art with a touch of Celtic traditions aswell.

 

I think the mix went well, if I might say so myself.

 

Now with primaris, I'm still planning to go with less fire support, maybe the dakka dreads, the ancient ones, will have that role.

 

I'm planning to use the reivers like the WS Sagyar Mazan. Brothers that failed a mission or shamed the chapter, take a vow of silence until they die in combat.

Only the speaker, or their leader is allowed to talk.

 

I'm still trying to decide to use the WS shoulder pads, or some transfers I got a while back to build the force up.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Sete

[Ace Debonair]

I'm liking these guys.
Hit hard, hit fast, no quarter given, no quarter asked.
Proper "Space Marines as Warriors" stuff.
 
The Grey Talons would get along great with my White Hawks (Who I really must rework as soon as the Warminds are done ), both coming from (and being strongly influenced by) comparatively simple warrior cultures, both keeping bits of the slain (although in the Hawks' it's more like a boast of "look what I killed"), not to mention a shared respect for the humble combat knife.
 
With regards to the lack of heavy weapons in their infantry squads, I don't see this as a terrible drawback. Melta bombs (and Powerfists) tend to work just fine for cracking open armour or fortifications, and there's not a lot of places a squad of Assault Marines can't reach. Well, that and terminator squads, of course.

 

I'm wondering, though - what colours does the Chapter wear? Are they grey like their name suggests, or is the only grey on their emblem, like the Red Scorpions?