Primarch Book 3 Magnus the Red

[Mellow]

Only just finished this iBook and have to say I felt this one was better than the previous two.

 

It also made me like the Iron Warriors more for some unexpected reason. I just came away from it thinking that Perturabo was a good character.

[dansupvi]

mind posting some spoilers anyone?

[HeritorA]

Magnus LE was an amazing book from the point of shining cover, red dusty pages and good box. Magnus  is a good book from the point of prose and story, but I can't call it great.

 

McNeil had some truly magnificent moments in the novel - covered in adventures and human spirit, logistics and kindling flames of knowledge.

But eventually it does not give you anything except some additional 'fillerish' view on Magnus, Thousand Sons Legion Pre-Heresy and Iron Warriors Legion.

There are some inconsistencies that made in the book - especially with the Thousand Sons Legion.

Maybe I'm just tired of fillers. Maybe I do not invest so much emotions in the characters I had so much knowledge about already and then I know how they will fare in the future and end up eventually.

But - that's a TS Legion much earlier before the 'TS' novel. Ahriman character is a simple Astartes whose ability was just discovered by Magnus.

And they are soooo naive that I can't take it seriously. An interesting thought is that none of them remember several months time after Magnus healed them from the sickness.

Plus we haven't seen the real routes of Magnus/Perturabo friendship. It's popup right from the start.

Perturabo on the other hand seems very naive, agonisingly loyal to the Emperor (lol) but with that cruel streak that will blossom from Davin and further on.

Also McNeil continue to use his characters from W40k 'Ultramarines/Storm of Iron' novels. For example we again had Forrix almost on the first line etc.

In general it's a very complicated book - it is good, but I can't call it awesome.

 

As for the spoilers all novella focuces on Magnus rememrance of events on Morningstar and how the world died. Added to that is an Iron Warriors luggage train.

[DarkChaplain]

Got started on it today, three chapters in. I'd read the prologue through the extract months ago, and was pretty excited for this. I couldn't be bothered with Russ so far, but Magnus? Hell yeah, I'll read that.

 

So far it is pretty neat in how it establishes the early Great Crusade Legions. Perturabo is interesting and Magnus is as aloof and arrogant as you'd expect.

 

What I don't quite like (though it does make a degree of sense) is that it once again showcases the same characters McNeill used in previous books. Yes, it makes sense for the 1st Captains to be the same guys now as later. Yes, it makes sense that we'd see a younger Ahriman who still struggles with the trauma of the Legion before Magnus took control. But I'm kinda annoyed with Barban Falk being in it too, and there being hints to his legacy. I liked very much that Guilliman and Russ seem to have taken unknown, peripheral characters for most of their content, rather than reusing assets.

I don't mind Atharva at all, seeing how he *was* important before being sent to Terra as part of the Crusader Host. Him being close to Magnus makes sense. As a protagonist he does well. Forrix is an integral part to the Legion and makes sense to be there with his Primarch. I just haven't really seen anybody we didn't know before as of 3 chapters through.

 

But really, that's just my nitpick here. The plot itself seems pretty good for now, the atmosphere suits the glory days of the Great Crusade and the exploration of the Primarchs' relationship is good. It makes perfect sense for the Thousand Sons to be naive and idealistic, thinking they know what's going on and waving away words of caution. That is part of who they've always been: Knowledge-seeking arrogant fools who think they know better than anybody else and as a result refuse to accept good advice when it comes along, thus dooming themselves.

I'm excited for more, and to see how it all relates to the ongoing HH plotline.

[Mellow]

One of the reasons I like it is because this book is on something "new" (for me anyway) where as the Russ book was about "old stories" and the Guilliman book was about "some random Ork battle"

 

This one was a bit more exploring of Magnus' power and his thirst for knowledge. A good book I feel.

[Brother Dougal]

I don't think I'll ever have the entire Horus Heresy series on my shelves. There's just too many books to buy, even for me. But I do love the Primarchs, and the Legions, so I'm totally happy that this series exists. This is something I Can get every volume of, and have sitting on my shelf. Now, if only the gold lettering on the hardcover didn't scratch off so easily....

 

Filler or no, this stuff does give us a nice glimpse into the time before the Heresy. Seeing everyone as brothers, not traitors; competing, not avenging. Sigh, so much lost.

 

Sorry I can't contribute more, but I want to get the standard hardcover, so I don't want to spoil myself with this yet. I May spring for the Limitied Edition version of Ferrus' book though. Man I want to know more of what he was like.

[HeritorA]

One of the reasons I like it is because this book is on something "new" (for me anyway) where as the Russ book was about "old stories" and the Guilliman book was about "some random Ork battle"

 

This one was a bit more exploring of Magnus' power and his thirst for knowledge. A good book I feel.

Russ book was about "old stories" and Magnus story of Morningstar is what? It is the same old story long before Heresy, lol

[Knockagh]

I'm pretty much with HeritorA on this one. Although my current thoughts are to drop out of the Primarchs series. There are loads of good books coming up that I want to read. Maybe I'm suffering Heresy exhaustion but I'm enjoying getting stuck back into some old 40k at the minute. I've collected everything HH from the start and for the first time I haven't bought last two numbered novels, I'm sure I will get them but I'm not rushing or really looking forward like I am to warlord, Vaults of Terra or the Horusian Wars.

Primarchs have been good, Magnus marginally my favourite over Russ but not awesome.

[godking]

I liked it.

 

Annoyed that random Iron Warriors characters from his earlier books once again get a line.

 

I don't want to see Obax Zakayo again  in a Horus Heresy novel.

[Mellow]

 

 

One of the reasons I like it is because this book is on something "new" (for me anyway) where as the Russ book was about "old stories" and the Guilliman book was about "some random Ork battle"

 

This one was a bit more exploring of Magnus' power and his thirst for knowledge. A good book I feel.

Russ book was about "old stories" and Magnus story of Morningstar is what? It is the same old story long before Heresy, lol

I did say "for me at least" as I've not read anything about Morningstar before. I also said I feel this is a good book compared to (in my opinion) the first two weaker novels.

 

Don't worry, I'm not trying to change your (or anyone else's) mind to agree. :)

[Tymell]

I liked it, on par with Leman Russ: The Great Wolf for me, though in that one what shone most was the big fight between Russ and Lion, this time it's more of a slow burn throughout the book.

 

I enjoyed the characters of both legions, both clearly comparatively young yet with hints of what they will become later. But those hints don't dominate the story, they're just there. Perturabo and his legion are still cold, driven and calculating, but haven't yet been eroded by decades of brutal and ignominious siege warfare. Magnus and the Thousand Sons are arrogant and hungry for knowledge, but not yet totally immersed in their powers.

 

I also liked that it wasn't "just another battle". The problem they faced here was more of a logistical one, it was nice to see the Astartes employed in a different kind of battlefield.

 

And the scene of

Magnus psychically cushioning the fall of the Lux Ferem

 was bloody epic :D

 

So yeah, good book IMO. Not incredible, nothing redefining for Magnus or his sons, but a good addition to both that legion's history, and the Primarchs series.

[Roomsky]

Sounds like a bit of a return to form for Graham ,which makes me pretty excited for this one. Love me some quality Mcneill.

[HeritorA]

I liked it.

 

Annoyed that random Iron Warriors characters from his earlier books once again get a line.

 

I don't want to see Obax Zakayo again  in a Horus Heresy novel.

Same.

 

I'm pretty much with HeritorA on this one. Although my current thoughts are to drop out of the Primarchs series. There are loads of good books coming up that I want to read. Maybe I'm suffering Heresy exhaustion but I'm enjoying getting stuck back into some old 40k at the minute. I've collected everything HH from the start and for the first time I haven't bought last two numbered novels, I'm sure I will get them but I'm not rushing or really looking forward like I am to warlord, Vaults of Terra or the Horusian Wars.

Primarchs have been good, Magnus marginally my favourite over Russ but not awesome.

Absolutely agree

 

Sounds like a bit of a return to form for Graham ,which makes me pretty excited for this one. Love me some quality Mcneill.

 

Sadly no. His best work was 'TS' and it's still is. We will see how 'The Crimson King' will go.

[R_F_D]

 

Sounds like a bit of a return to form for Graham ,which makes me pretty excited for this one. Love me some quality Mcneill.

 

Sadly no. His best work was 'TS' and it's still is. We will see how 'The Crimson King' will go.

 

 

In your opinion.  

 

I share Roomsky's excitement but am waiting for Crimson King to be released before I read my copy of Magnus so I can read them back to back.

[HeritorA]

 

 

Sounds like a bit of a return to form for Graham ,which makes me pretty excited for this one. Love me some quality Mcneill.

 

Sadly no. His best work was 'TS' and it's still is. We will see how 'The Crimson King' will go.

 

 

In your opinion.  

 

I share Roomsky's excitement but am waiting for Crimson King to be released before I read my copy of Magnus so I can read them back to back.

 

Sure, no problem in that. But TS was amazing - and I did not get anything at least so good from Graham since

[DarkChaplain]

Finished it last night, and it was a pretty good one. Very different from what I was expecting, but in a good way. Still not keen on the Falks and Zakayos, or the Forrix foreshadowing, but the ideas here were good, and I enjoyed the move away from nonstop action.

[HeritorA]

Finished it last night, and it was a pretty good one. Very different from what I was expecting, but in a good way. Still not keen on the Falks and Zakayos, or the Forrix foreshadowing, but the ideas here were good, and I enjoyed the move away from nonstop action.

I think all that Falks, Zakayos, Forrix is a bit overrated by now and totally missed the intended point. Hope that would be the last time he recycle the same characters all over again in his each novel

[DarkChaplain]

I typed up a short review earlier and tweeted it out. Graham saw it and replied:

 

">

Thanks. Appreciated. It’s a fine line between wanting to use characters readers like and inventing new ones. Duly noted!

 

[Mellow]

It felt a bit odd

 

having Magnus being overpowered and almost having his psychic powers sucked out of his head

 

The last time I felt that way it was in the Fang books when he

 

seemed to keep forgetting he was a bloody Primarch! and a super powerful one at that

[DarkChaplain]

Keep in mind that

He just massively overextended himself to the point of near-death. He went to the limits of his power and was still not entirely up to standards by the time he met Shai-Tan. The revelations there too weakened his resolve greatly. That wasn't an easy "fight" for Magnus, especially when he wanted to save his possessed sons more than anything.

[HeritorA]

Keep in mind that

He just massively overextended himself to the point of near-death. He went to the limits of his power and was still not entirely up to standards by the time he met Shai-Tan. The revelations there too weakened his resolve greatly. That wasn't an easy "fight" for Magnus, especially when he wanted to save his possessed sons more than anything.

Not to mention his position as still 'learning' Primarch, who nearly started on a road of Great Crusade.

[HeritorA]

DC - a well founded review, well written as usual. But I do have an absolutely different opinion on it:

Probably the main reason why this novel suffers from delusions of grandeur is the bad choice and reasoning for it's main characters. Which could be explained by the page count. I'm sure if that would have been a full (at least 300 pages) novel - it would be an absolutely different and amazing story. 
Combining 2 Legions into one novella - Thousand Sons and the Iron Warriors should have given us a lot of new and amazing characters contrived into a sprawling story of tragedy and betrayal. Instead, especially due to low page count Graham McNeill wasn't been able to give new characters their due and thus he used his old ones... And from here it all went downhill very quickly.

Ahriman, Forrix, Hathor Maat, Obax Zakayo, Phosis T'kar, Barban Falk and Harkor - they are all the main characters of this story. In case of Hathor Maat - that character was truly butchered. From the stoic and persistent character from the 'TS' - here we have a rash and dim person who would have been a better Imperial Fist instead of 15th.

Additional storyline, as is the developing bond between First Captains Forrix and Ahriman only worsen the case. Especially the way it was shown for us. And that's the best example why this novella stirred us wrong...
Instead of show us young but already experienced legionaries, so well known to us - we get absolutely 'non Ahriman' and 'non Forrix' characters. Sure - the story take place long before the HH and it's events. But universal view of this too are truly butchered. 
Ahriman on the other hand is too flawed and inconsistent - that's not Ahriman from amazing TS. And yes I know that he is a lot younger then he is in TS - BUT! A big but! We saw his younger self at Beotia and at Tizca - and he was not that naive student who are afraid to do what needs to be done. Plus all that foreshadowing into the future (Forrix case). It seems that author simply shown it as a fan-service. Nothing more - cause Ahriman did nothing on what he saw at Morningstar etc. The line is simply severed here - and everyone went on their own business - like nothing has happened.
And as for the Primarchs... We are shown Magnus in the process of trying to figure out his limits and the full range of his abilities. Which in itself contradicts a lot of TS fluff. Especially the point that - Magnus already know the range of his abilities after his deal and compact with Tzeentch to save his sons. 
As for Perturabo, yeah, he's different - it is still very early for him and even though he is cold and calculating I think by the time of this novella he is still in awe of the Emperor and this fills him with optimism and certain gentleness. The problem is - his character was used and written by 4 authors to date. And so his true image is too different in each novel.

Forge World HH books took John French characteristic for him. In Crimson Fist he is a cruel master - here we saw streaks of his cruelness, but at the same time he is such a funny fella... In all seriousness - Perturabo would have never destroyed that occullus, he has created for Magnus. And time has nothing to do with it. Even if we take McNeil image - it's already 4 years since he saw the Emperor etc.
In contradiction of some reviewers who thinks that 'every character and setpiece feels on point and vital' - it is not so.

Infinitely more than the synopsis, that novella tried to chew more than it could (due to the aforementioned reasons). It is always an amaterish try to combine a catastrophe and opportunistic human cruelty with the Great Crusade enlightment and Imperial truth.
In the end it is a novella about hope and human cruelty, about the necessity of sacrifice and the poison of belief - which was ruined by it's own character range.

[DarkChaplain]

I'll make the case for Ahriman that not even Magnus himself fully realized his potential up until a very late point in the novel. Ahriman was a skilled psyker here, but definitely didn't grasp just how far he could reach just yet, and his Primarch himself was surprised.

 

I didn't expect these characters to fully line up with their end-of-Crusade/Heresy era incarnations. If they had, I'd have been incredibly disappointed. They are different enough to make sense yet still feel like they're on the tracks to become what we've known them to be.

 

I'd disagree that the events on Morningstar were just forgotten. If anything, I believe we'll see them come back to haunt the Legion in The Crimson King, and it is pretty heavily implied that Ahriman will make use of things from the book to reach the point we all know he will.

In the end, though, this is one battlefield amongst hundreds for these guys. The Great Crusade is still young and there will be many experiences to influence them before A Thousand Sons.

 

It has been a few years since I last read A Thousand Sons, but I cannot remember any direct contradictions. Magnus might have made the deal, yes, but he is clearly not happy about it here. He is still wondering if he could have handled it differently, and there is a degree of shame there. Magnus will always claim to be at the height of his power, regardless of whether it is true. That is an inherent part of his character - he knows all, or so he thinks. Here he learns that he isn't infallible and can overextend himself if he is not careful, and that he can be deceived.

 

With Perturabo, I agree that he is still very idealistic and in awe of his father. He's making plans for great feats of architecture in the open and shares them with his brother, rather than hiding them away from most because he's expected to lay siege and destroy rather than create works of beauty. It fits his character well. And yes, he would have destroyed the recreation for Magnus. It was a lesson to his brother. He might enjoy creating, but he would tear it all down given a good reason. He got that here. He might regret doing so, but for the greater good he does many things he finds distasteful, until Horus promises him an out and appreciation.

 

I don't see a problem with his depiction here, as he's just been found 4(?) years earlier. I'd find more fault with him in Ironclad and even The Crimson Fist compared to Angel Exterminatus. McNeill's depiction of him feels like the best so far, though I have high hopes for Haley.

 

It is easy to think you understand the Primarchs and their motivations from all we've read about them so far, but in the end they are nigh-incomprehensible superhumands closer to godhood than mortality. If there is anything to take away from the HH series, it is that we and the authors barely scratch the surface of what is going on inside of them. They are far more nuanced than we often give them credit for, or get to see on the limited pages they appear on.

[HeritorA]

It has been a few years since I last read A Thousand Sons, but I cannot remember any direct contradictions.

- characters of Hathor Maat, Phosis T'kar etc. are in direct contradiction to their own personalities in TS

 

I'd disagree that the events on Morningstar were just forgotten. If anything, I believe we'll see them come back to haunt the Legion in The Crimson King

- we will see, then it will come out

[Prot]

I really like it overall so far, but it has some negatives;

- the setting of the story is a very interesting twist for Astartes, but let me put it this way without spoiling it; if you're looking for adventure and your hobby is chasing police cars to find it, would you rather the police car end up at a crime scene, or taking a stranded cat down from a tree?

- I love Forrix and the IW. I have no trouble with their inclusion and the contrasting traits are fun to explore, BUT the interaction of two 'oil and water' Astartes captains has become formulaic, and really overdone several novels ago.

- This is the side effect of the era of the novel but there's very little new here.

The great stuff is the end of the innocence feel to it. Again it's a by product of the era but there's a melancholy sadness to it as the reader, only you know how sideways things are going to get for both these Legions.

I'm mixed about Magnus. He's good in it but feels a bit too.... green. Ahriman is Ahriman. Always the stalwart, thinking man's war hero. It's hard not to like him.

It's my favourite of the series so far.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Prot